 Poster: A snowHead
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Mrs B is struggling with a knee injury and we would appreciate the advice of Snowheads, if possible.
Summary:-
Jan 1998 - ruptured ACL. Tidied up during arthroscopy but no repair. Extensive physio and returned to skiing in Dec. 98. Has skiied without a brace every winter since then, averaging 40 days on snow. (We get to Scotland a lot!)
Fast forward to April 2013 - very low speed twisting fall, resulting in stretched medial ligaments (same knee as ACL injury). This happened while ski touring in Austria and resulted in our guide initiating a helicopter rescue. Not good....
That resulted in further physio and a return to skiing at the end of June 2013.
Late July 2013 - mountain biking accident. Fell to the side and stepped off the bike, landing on a slope 4 feet or so below - causing knee to collapse. Same knee as injured previously. Self diagnosed (questionable, in hindsight) as symptoms were identical to earlier medial ligament injury. More (at home) physio exercises and a return to skiing in Dec 2013. Then had 18 days skiing, up to mid Feb 2014 - skiing all sorts of conditions/runs in various resorts. On days 16 & 17 we were in Banff (Norquay) and skiied very steep mogul runs about 8 times, which led Mrs B to comment later that (on 2 turns only) her knee had felt slightly wobbly...
Disaster struck on day 18, on our first (1 day) heli skiing trip. I'd booked it as a surprise (near Golden) and went for the 5 run package. 15 minutes into our first run Mrs B came to a stop, on a very steep section, and her knee collapsed to the side. She hadn't crashed, as such, but remembers that her weight went back when just as she came to a standstill and her knee popped and collapsed - same knee as injured earlier. The knee wouldn't bend very well and a doctor in the group (guest, as opposed to employee of the heli Co.) took a look at it and "popped it back." Suffice to say that was the end of the heli skiing...
The injury was diagnosed in Banff hospital as a meniscus injury, with an identical diagnosis provided by a sports injury physio in the UK (while awaiting an NHS referral). The physio thought that surgery would be required as he thinks the tear caused the knee joint to jam and move sideways during the incident in Canada, causing the collapse.
She eventually had an MRI scan on 21 April but the results have been delayed until now. Today she has been advised that she has a torn meniscus (small tear) and severe bruising at the top of the bone below the knee; but the consultant prefers to wait for 2-3 months to see how things go (particularly in view of the bruising) before considering next steps. He has advised her to continue with her (cycling) rehab in the meantime. We are particularly concerned however that the consultant thinks she can go about her daily business, can walk ok and can drive without any problem - so he does not see the need for surgery. Of course, he does not appreciate the significance of skiing.... She does however suffer a niggly pain in the knee - which worsens when attempting to squat.
We are really disappointed by this as we were hoping to get sorted sooner rather than later. This has left Mrs B really concerned about skiing again, to the extent that she feels that she would not dare risk ski touring for fear of her knee collapsing in the middle of nowhere. Nor would she consider skiing anything steep, for the same reason. For information, in case it helps, I would describe her as an aggressive skier who loves both on and off piste, steep stuff and moguls.
Have any Snowheads suffered anything similar? And can anyone advise as to a way forward? We really don't want to approach next winter no further forward than we are now - not least as we are not convinced that a non-surgery approach could ever get better on its own.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 10-05-14 11:11; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tell the surgeon that she needs to be able to ski by winter time. If she earned her living by skiing he would sort straight away. Did mine April 14th and had it sorted last Sat 4th May and am now on rehab,all on NHS.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Im amazed at her recovery time from a torn medial ligament. Bone bruising can take a long time to repair. If the knee keeps collapsing sideways then the medial ligament could be stretched.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bergmeister, Sympathies to Mrs B. I tore my ACL & various bits 8 years ago. It was fine until a further ski injury 2 years ago, which tore further bits in the knee & I had a lot of boney bruising too. Whereas the initial injury rehabbed well, the 2nd injury never really stabilised, & had been becoming progressively more unstable, collapsing doing everyday things - hoovering/climbing downstairs/dogwalking etc. I finally had an ACL reconstruction & tidying up of torn meniscus by Jonathan Bell a couple of weeks ago (having been told 8years ago that at 51, I was too old !). So far, it's all going very well & I've been delighted with the treatment & care I've received.
Has she seen a specialist knee surgeon yet? If not, I think that is that is the way forward for her. Good luck to her - Jonathan Bell may be along to talk sense to you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you all. I've amended my original post slightly after having shown my post to Mrs B this morning.
She had in fact "only" stretched her medial ligament in April 13, as opposed to the tear I (incorrectly) referred to earlier (which caught the attention of Frosty the Snowman).
We've had further developments this morning....
Mrs B telephoned her sports injury physio to convey the results of the MRI scan and the comments of the consultant. The physio's latest view (rather surprisingly, given his earlier categoric comment that a minor op would be required) is that she should go with the consultant's view and see how things go. He thinks she should try various activities now, including skiing, as the knee may not in fact collapse after her two and a half months of rehab since her last accident. So his suggestion is to try progressively more aggressive activities and if the knee collapses go back to the consultant.
That obviously causes us some concern and the suggestion of seeing a specialist knee surgeon (and one who skis?) seems to be the way forward.
The funny thing is that Mrs B feels as though she could ski now, if she "takes things easy." The late snow in Scotland is certainly tempting (for a short ski tour), given that she has recently managed a 3 hour hike on undulating terrain in the North York Moors - but the last thing we want is to test the knee in the wild and then sample the services of Cairngorm's mountain rescue team if things go wrong! One thing that's puzzling us however is that neither the physio nor the consultant can state with any certainty when the meniscal tear occurred (ie April 13, July 13 or Feb 14). On reflection, therefore, we are wondering whether it was a simple case of Mrs B not having built up/rehabbed her (assumed) medial ligament injury prior to the heliskiing day.
Hopefully a knee specialist will be able to shed further light on things. We are wondering, however, if that's something we'll have to pay for, given that she's already been seen by an NHS consultant. Or can we ask for a 2nd opinion from a specific knee specialist?
The (relatively) good news is that Mrs B can continue with her mountain biking; and hiking isn't causing her any problems (other than a slight niggle).
In the meantime, any further comments would be gratefully received.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bergmeister, I have a stretched MCL which both my knee surgeon and sports physio have advised building up muscle to support the knee as surgery has (according to the surgeon) a low success rate. I skied 24 days last season with a brace. My knee never collapses but its still nit right after 11 months of rehab.
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An MRI isn't always clear what is happening my MRI revealed the tear but said my ACL recon was intact but when the surgeon went in to remove the tear he found the ACL was half gone (explain how come it collapsed so unexpectedly causing the medial meniscus tear).
Given the fact that I have had two thirds my meniscus removed and my ACL recon is only half intact, I can ski but use a recommended (by Physio) brace and need to make are I get and keep my leg muscles strong.
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Bergmeister, did she see the orthopod in Co Durham? Who did she see? PM me if you don't want it public.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sounds like a bunch of symptoms and incidents i had with my knee pre meniscus op and subsequent ACL recon a couple of years later i.e. the collapsing and the torn flap of meniscus jamming in the joint preventing proper movement. I'd push at least for an arthroscopy to tidy stuff up but waiting for bone bruising to heal doesn't sound unreasonable. There's very little downtime with a meniscectomy so building muscle bulk in advance isn't a bad idea.
IANAD
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I recently got a new pair of skis and was talked into 'KNEE bindings'.
Would these give more reassurance?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gryphea, spyderjon recommends them
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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holidayloverxx,
That's good then. I meant; I got them, but would they be useful for Mrs B and give her more reassurance?
They seem good, but haven't fallen on them yet
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gryphea, yes, I got your meaning...I think I was aiming to reinforce the assurance!
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You know it makes sense.
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I bought a pair of Knee bindings (for no good reason other than a sale) and having subsequently read the theory they seem to make sense. Had about four weeks on them and two releases, although both of these were falls from which conventional bindings would have released anyway. Only down side I've noticed is they need significantly more pressure to step in to than any other bindings I've skied. Can make them a bit tricky clicking in on steep slopes. Trick to get heel piece closed seems to be to push more backwards rather than downwards.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi, I have no particular medical knowledge and I am only commenting on the meniscus tear not ligaments.
I tore my meniscus horizontally many years ago, quite an unusual tear (specialist consultant had only ever seen a couple before). Did it twisting the leg whilst picking up a piano
I left it for some weeks before seeking medical advice, and ended up going to a private knee clinic in the W Midlands. It used to ache a lot, but didn't lock or collapse. The consultant gave me the option of an operation to tidy it up, or 'see how it goes'. I didn't have the op, but did a reasonable amount of exercise, especially spin classes. It has the advantage of non load bearing and exercise in a vertical plane without twisting, but without the risk of falling off and causing more damage! It slowly improved and never stopped me skiing. But I skied for quite a few years with a good off the shelf knee brace. Not had any reoccurring problems.
All this waffle boils down to my advice based on personal experience. Bear with it, and only intervene with an operation as a last resort - it doesn't always improve it, and once cut away it cannot be replaced.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bergmeister,
Sounds like your wife has an unstable knee secondary to ACL rupture. These knees have a threshold beyond which they collapse( give way) .
The threshold can vary between individuals. On that day she overdid it, pushing her knee beyond the threshold between stable and unstable. When the knee gives way you risk tearing the meniscus. It dies sound like she needs it sorted out by a specialist .
Jonathan Bell
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank you very much for your earlier replies.
Time for an update and a request for further advice. Please bear with me...
Despite earlier advice to the contrary Mrs B was advised by her (non skiing) physio that, after closer inspection of the MRI scan, there was in fact no tear in the meniscus. A subsequent test on a biodex machine, a couple of months later (following intensive cycling as rehab), showed the knee to be stronger than the good one(!) and the physio reported no evident instability. So far so good....
The summer brought a return to fell walking in the Lake District, with no problems; and then we had a return to skiing, when the knee was tested on the Tignes glacier on 2 days in July. Great news as Mrs B passed the "test" with flying colours and no adverse effects! That was followed by a few days of Alpine hiking and a couple of hours of via Ferrata (in Les Menuires) on some challenging and aggressive terrain (including ladders). Again, all was ok and the knee had begun to feel normal, with no apparent instability.
Fast forward to August and mountain biking. Mrs B was pushing her bike on uneven terrain when she felt her knee wobble sideways slightly - similar to the warning she had in Canada a day or so prior to the knee collapse.
Since then however, we've fellwalked twice in the Lakes, including backpacking (with a relatively high amount of kit and heavy rucksacks) on an aggressive route with some very tough, sustained descending (the Newlands Horseshoe) - again with no problems whatsoever.
Despite the successful return to hiking, the recent wobble has caused Mrs B great concern and she is worried about making a return to off piste skiing and ski touring despite feeling really confident about resort skiing on piste - particularly after the successful summer skiing trip this year.
So, we are now wondering what Mrs B should do next. Other than the one incident in August, involving the wobble, all seems ok with the knee. She has recently been jogging - again with no adverse effects.
Should she see another (private) physio (ie one who skis) with a view to being examined/tested for knee stability and skiing fitness? Indeed, does such a test exist, short of testing in a mountain environment on skis? Can anyone recommend such a physio in the north east?
Edit: I've just seen the thread about Wimbledon's Return to Skiing After Injury clinic at Hemel in November. Is James' assessment prior to that clinic something similar to the test I am describing above?
Or should she bite the bullet and opt for a knee brace, bearing in mind Jonathan Bell's advice on an earlier thread that it's either very cheap or very expensive for a brace - with no halfway house. ie either you need a good un or you don't really need one!
And for that matter, does self referral to a brace supplier mean that their physio will inevitably suggest that you need a brace (akin to asking a car salesman in a garage if you need a car?) Or might they suggest otherwise? And if we go down that route do we go Donjoy, CTI, off the shelf or custom made? Do any Snowheads have experience of the relative merits of each?
Or do we look for the equivalent of Wimbledon Clinics in the north east as our next step? Does such a place exist up here?
Again your advice would be appreciated.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bergmeister, hmm, not sure I can advice, but from what I can gather the MRI is not the be all and end all.
Certainly March 2013 my weight came down wrong while playing hockey. It was painful and I went to a Physio who did the lackman test and reckoned the ACL was still instant (a reconstruction). The Physio thought it was an MCL strain and I was able to ski a month later with support and not as much as normal but still pain free for a good half a day (it actually hurt more to walk than ski). I thought I as nicely rehabbed and went back to hockey training in August. It all felt really good, I was running, sprinting not even a twinge, and then it just collapsed while slowing down from a sprint. That left me with a locked knee and non-weight bearing. MRI showed meniscus tear but that the ACL was intact. However when I had the surgery to sort out the locked knee / tears, it showed that in fact although the ACL was partially intact half of it had been destroyed, this was (in hind site) the damage I had done in the March, and what caused it to unstable when I returned to hockey.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bergmeister, James' assessment is exactly what you are describing. I went on the return to ski day last year 7.5 months after wrecking my tibial plateau and rupturing the lateral meniscus (plus a stretched MCL which became apparent when rehabbing). James assessed me at 5.5 months into rehab, gave me ski specific exercises which I did in addition to my normal rehab (4-5 sessions a week at the gym). James assessed me again a couple of weeks before the day and passed me fit for skiing as long as he taped my knee up, which he did essentially as a brace.
The tests are for strength, stability, flexibility and covers just about every muscle in the legs. James suggested that I use a brace for skiing as it was unlikely my knee would ever be "right" but interestingly he said that he only recommends a brace for MCL injury, not for anything else, my regular physio also doesn't routinely advise a brace. Jonathan Bell recommended Serena Stubbs http://www.abilitymatters.co.uk/Info-Centre/Meet-the-team/Serena-Stubbs,-Orthotist-Prosthetist and I went to see her immediately after the successful return to ski day. I only had 2 weeks before I was due to go to Val d'Isere so custom fit was not an option. We looked at Donjoy and CTi; similar prices but the CTi off the shelf was a good fit for me. Rachel Q got the same one but had to have custom (she has lovely slender legs!), AlPhorn has the same one too (ACL IIRC). The brace was about £550 and it is fantastic; I was able to ski all day, and rather than gentle greens and maybe an odd blue I was skiing reds by day 2(lessons). I went on to ski 4 further weeks. As I have continued to rehab my MCL has felt much improved to the extent I started to wonder whether I would need the brace this season, but then my meniscus flared up big style (couldn't walk more than a few yards) so I'm not going to risk it. Personally, I would not self refer for a brace - how do you know what Mrs B needs without proper assessment?
I don't know whether there is an equivalent in the NE
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'll try to briefly list my various injuries, all to L knee.
1997 fall, told in resort I have torn ACL but physio at home says its just muscular, do rehab, continue skiing
2000 another fall, diagnosed as MCL injury and asked when I tore PCL. I reply that PCL not torn but doctor thinks differently and I'm told to get CTi brace. Have used this for all skiing since then.
2004 Surgeon originally diagnoses rupture of ACL, PCL and MCL from examination of my knee but MRI shows PCL and MCL still intact although stretched. ACL repair done in April, skiing again by December.
2008 Tibial plateau fracture (hairline) on weak spot where bone has been drilled during ACL repair. No surgery needed.
Jan 2014 fall, knee feels a bit stiff and slightly instable at times but ski all rest of season, about another 6 weeks
May 2014 try to run for a bus and knee gives way and hurts. Can't get appointment with doctor/surgeon for a while so start extra physio to build up knee.
June 2014 again running for bus but knee gives way and I fall heavily onto bad knee.
July 2014 appointment with surgeon. He diagnoses torn PCL from recent fall but ACL repair still intact. Says he will repair PCL if MRI shows this is needed.
August 2014 MRI scan
Now waiting results of MRI but haven't got an appointment with surgeon yet.
I have been working at keeping the knee strong by walking and exercise bike and I'll be hiking in USA national parks later this autumn. I really don't want knee surgery at the moment as I think I can get through the winter's skiing wearing the knee brace and if surgery is needed long-term hopefully have it next Easter. I am 65 and glad that my surgeon is a skier and understands that I need to keep skiing, hiking etc. If I don't have more surgery there is the prospect of arthritis.
I would thoroughly recommend the CTi brace as without it I'd probably not be skiing. I can ski black runs and bumps with it but without don't have the stability in my L knee for aggressive skiing. I have had 2 days without it when my luggage and I didn't arrive together and could only ski blue runs.
Good luck to Mrs B, hope she gets her knee fixed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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mogulski, golly, that's an impressive list; makes mine look very mere!
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2011 I sustained a tibial plateau fracture, ruptured medial ligament, displaced meniscus and partically torn ACL. The surgeon lext the ACL alone and said the best thing was to wait and see how much trouble it caused. I still have some residual instability, but it's gradually improving. Recovering from injury takes time, especially as we get older. I doubt whether my ACL is much different, but I have built up substantially more muscle to try to compensate. I weigh 82kg now, compared to 70kg before my accident and most/all of that is more muscle. Legs like tree trunks....
Looking at her training and activities what appears to be missing is pure strength training. Biking/hiking etc is great for all round fitness but it's not going to result in putting on much muscle. Could she talk to her physio about starting more targetrd strength training?
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Thanks again to all.
hyperkub,
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what appears to be missing is pure strength training. Biking/hiking etc is great for all round fitness but it's not going to result in putting on much muscle
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Mrs B's almost daily bike regime (for over 3 months now) has involved a 1 mile free wheel from home then a 1 mile steep climb back (using SPD pedals and concentrating on the injured knee) - repeated at least 5 times per outing and, on occasions, up to 10 times. Her physio thought that was instrumental in building up the strength of the muscles around the knee. We will of course seek further advice as to what's best when she sees her next physio - but the real question is where we find a skiing physio; or at least one that understands the importance of getting back to skiing.
Enquiries so far have shown that brace fitting would involve a consultation/examination with a physio (of the supplier). To an extent, that is comforting, but (as per my original comment) the concern is that she could be prescribed a brace whether one is needed or not.
Given so much positive feedback about Wimbledon we have not ruled out a drive south....
I mentioned the hiking (and other activities) so that readers could form an overall picture of the stability (or otherwise) of the knee.
Further comments would of course be welcome.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The biking is good stuff, don't get me wrong about that. But in one mile the pedals of a bike go round (depending on gearing) probably 3-400 times. Multiply that by anything from 5 to 10 and you get many repetitions (2000 or more). By contrast a session of squats might involve 5 reps of 5, with increasing weight on each set. Assuming that a progamme of lifting might involve 3 or 4 diffierent lifts in a session, that's 100 repetitions. It's that heavy work with few reps which I feel is missing. I have certainly got a lot of benefit in my rehab from mixing in that kind of heavier lifting.
Obviously that doesn't mean rushing down to the gym and piling a load of weights onto a barbell, but starting a structured programme which is carefully designed and with weights which are realistic.
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hyperkub, Thanks again. That's very helpful.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bergmeister,
Points worth considering
Braces . Get it fitted by a proper fitter ( Orthotist) who is not tied to a specific manufacturer as there are a number of good makes but having a variety means a better chance of a good fit.
Get it measured when you have you winter muscles bulk or fit may alter.
Get it in good time so you get used to it.
Giving way. The priority is to stop giving way or the knee becomes progressively damaged Eventually nearly every one tears a meniscus:check this isn't the new problem. As the knee becomes arthritic it stabilises hence why some get better over five to ten years.
There are other clinics around the country ( though we were virtually the first) but the vast majority of them are based around surgeons and their needs. So you need one that promotes and emphasises the non op approach and has those specialists under one roof because they then talk to each other about you.
We would be very happy to help, sorry about the distance. Our Orthotist comes from Oswestry and if that easier ill happily give you his details. His practice there is independent if us but he is very good. If you do think you' ll come to us pm me and we'll get a bit more detail so we can try and limit number of visits
Jonathan Bell
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jonathan Bell,
I wondered whether you had any opinion on the KNEE binding? Have you ever had a patient rupture their ACL whislt using one?
http://www.kneebinding.com/KB-HomePage.aspx
I was persuaded to buy some last year when I bought new skis and am now considering replacement bindings for another pair of skis
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| gryphea wrote: |
Jonathan Bell,
I wondered whether you had any opinion on the KNEE binding? Have you ever had a patient rupture their ACL whislt using one?
http://www.kneebinding.com/KB-HomePage.aspx
I was persuaded to buy some last year when I bought new skis and am now considering replacement bindings for another pair of skis |
I have been hearing about this binding for years. Its arrival was drawn to my attention by genepi.
I haven't seen anyone rupture their ACL whilst using it but i don't think it very widespread.
Ill let you all know if i do!
My current dilemma is what touring binding to go for.
I had Fritschi ( a bit flimsy) and Dukes ( very heavy).
I want one that will ski well (as uphill is only for access) and i want one that will release.
Jonathan Bell
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You know it makes sense.
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Reading this with interest - sorry to hear about Mrs. B's knee
My son had a torn meniscus (bucket handle tear in the lateral meniscus) in his knee. Problem started when he was just 12 and was undiagnosed for 18 months ( nothing showed on 2 MRI scans). It caused trouble and pain on and off for 18 months - physio exercises were undertaken during this time to improve knee and leg strength. Finally showed up on his 3rd MRI scan ( after his knee locked and he was in agonsing pain) and he had an operation to repair the cartilage. That was in Dec 2013 so he missed all of last ski season and most of the 2012 season when we didn't know what the knee problem was.
He was been given the all clear by surgeon and physio in the summer to return to sports and so far all has been well. This Christmas will be his first time back on skis and he is naturally worried. He has been using exercise bike at home ( to keep up knee strength after all those months of physio) and doing sport at school and back playing tennis. I have also booked him a private ski lesson at Hemel for December so his first time back on skis is in a safe environment.
It would be really useful to hear from those snowheads that have recovered from a cartilage op as to how they found skiing again for the first time just so that I can understand the process he is going through and support him. Have thought about getting him a knee brace but have heard mixed reports on this - and of course, he is still growing. Thank you
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@IwishICouldThinkOfAFabNam, I haven't skied yet - BUT my knee is better now than before the op, about 9 weeks ago - the most measurable difference is in flexion - and it's coped well with the rehab. I am doing a lot of leg-specific exercises (squats, step ups, etc) and will continue to do so before I go skiing (and after, come to that - the muscles lose their tone fast when one is elderly).
Has he had a look at the Wimbledon Clinic "ski fit" series? Probably more focussed than an exercise bike and certainly more interesting. Things like the "Jump squats" - just moving on to them - will also be good for my bones, as opposed to the non weight-bearing cycling.
I have no doubt that my knee is going to be a lot better skiing, come Christmas, than it was last season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| IwishICouldThinkOfAFabNam wrote: |
Reading this with interest - sorry to hear about Mrs. B's knee
My son had a torn meniscus (bucket handle tear in the lateral meniscus) in his knee. Problem started when he was just 12 and was undiagnosed for 18 months ( nothing showed on 2 MRI scans). It caused trouble and pain on and off for 18 months - physio exercises were undertaken during this time to improve knee and leg strength. Finally showed up on his 3rd MRI scan ( after his knee locked and he was in agonsing pain) and he had an operation to repair the cartilage. That was in Dec 2013 so he missed all of last ski season and most of the 2012 season when we didn't know what the knee problem was.
He was been given the all clear by surgeon and physio in the summer to return to sports and so far all has been well. This Christmas will be his first time back on skis and he is naturally worried. He has been using exercise bike at home ( to keep up knee strength after all those months of physio) and doing sport at school and back playing tennis. I have also booked him a private ski lesson at Hemel for December so his first time back on skis is in a safe environment.
It would be really useful to hear from those snowheads that have recovered from a cartilage op as to how they found skiing again for the first time just so that I can understand the process he is going through and support him. Have thought about getting him a knee brace but have heard mixed reports on this - and of course, he is still growing. Thank you |
Meniscus tears in children/teenagers are not common.
They mainly occur in the lateral meniscus.
The ACL should be checked carefully especially if it was a medial meniscus tear. Medial meniscus bucket handle tear will lock the knee and when they occur in youngsters they are frequently associated with an ACL injury.
The majority of meniscus tears in teenagers do not show up on scan so it is a clinical diagnosis. Consequently many have had recurring symptoms that have baffled doctors until the knee locks. This happens when the meniscus finally comes adrift and gets trapped in the knee.
If the meniscus was repaired rather than trimmed then i normally let them go back to full sports if it has had a chance to heal.( at least 3 months)
If the knee is stable then he should not require a brace.
Very occasionally it can re-tear but by then they come back as soon as trouble starts and i have re- repaired them.
The priority then is on getting fit to ski.
Jonathan Bell
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have been hearing about this binding for years. Its arrival was drawn to my attention by genepi.
I haven't seen anyone rupture their ACL whilst using it but i don't think it very widespread.
Ill let you all know if i do!
My current dilemma is what touring binding to go for.
I had Fritschi ( a bit flimsy) and Dukes ( very heavy).
I want one that will ski well (as uphill is only for access) and i want one that will release.
Jonathan Bell
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Jonathon. I have got on very well with Marker F10 for weight uphill, releasing and skki experience. Then early ones have some niggles, but I went to them from Fritschi and found them much better. Having just ruptured my ACL on Dynafits I will be waiting for the Marker Kingpin before using a dedicated touring rig again. They look excellent. There is also the Diamir Vipec which is going to be improved each year, but when I look at the Kingpin it has the edge in my opinion.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| 22 dropout wrote: |
| Quote: |
I have been hearing about this binding for years. Its arrival was drawn to my attention by genepi.
I haven't seen anyone rupture their ACL whilst using it but i don't think it very widespread.
Ill let you all know if i do!
My current dilemma is what touring binding to go for.
I had Fritschi ( a bit flimsy) and Dukes ( very heavy).
I want one that will ski well (as uphill is only for access) and i want one that will release.
Jonathan Bell
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Jonathon. I have got on very well with Marker F10 for weight uphill, releasing and skki experience. Then early ones have some niggles, but I went to them from Fritschi and found them much better. Having just ruptured my ACL on Dynafits I will be waiting for the Marker Kingpin before using a dedicated touring rig again. They look excellent. There is also the Diamir Vipec which is going to be improved each year, but when I look at the Kingpin it has the edge in my opinion. |
Thanks for that. i was involved in a discussion in another post about touring bindings and the F10 was mentioned.
Sorry to hear about your ACL, if i can help come back to me.
Jonathan Bell
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having done a little skiing now, I can tell that my left knee - which had the arthroscopy to trim ragged meniscus - is not quite right. I've done a lot of work on muscles and will continue to do so - I think they are in reasonable nick. I felt the knee a bit when XC skiing, not because of any lateral strains, but just the pushing/gliding forward (I do classical, not the athletic skating type). Muscles wise I only felt it in the hip flexors, which don't usually work so hard.
The sensation in my knee (it would be too strong to call it "pain") is on the outside of the knee, just where the torn meniscus was. It's extremely minor on smooth pistes and I have no hesitation standing on the leg - it doesn't feel like it's going to give way. But when on an unpisted red run this morning I really felt it. I hadn't known it was unpisted till too late, having joined it part way down. But back up the top I could see the sign "for good skiers only" and went down the pisted one next door!
I don't intend to do gnarly or off piste skiing, or moguls. And will continue to try to keep up the muscle strength (have been XC skiing, walking and snowshoeing when not skiing recently). Might dig out my "Bioskin" knee support.
Not sure what to do, really, or whether I ought to seek a consultation with the surgeon.
Meanwhile will take it easy and have lots of stops for refreshment. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jon. Thanks for your wishes. I am under Rhidian's supervision at Parkside; Andy Beckinsale for physio and Serena for brace. If you have any views please PM me. I am interested in your rehab at Hemel. My reconstruction is probably mid-April. Like many, this is as much as a mental process as physical.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@22 dropout, not wishing to state the obvious but you do know that @Jonathan Bell is a surgeon at Parkside?
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@pam w, I definitely would dig out the bioskin knee support. Must admit I am never going ski again without my knee supports. Jonathon gave a really good explanation of how they will help when we have damage in our knees and it was to do with the brain using the extra information it gets from feeling the support bandage on the skin to make up for the lack of signals it is getting from the damaged knee.
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@22 dropout, not wishing to state the obvious but you do know that @Jonathan Bell is a surgeon at Parkside?
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Yes, and a very good one I hear. Hence my post.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@22 dropout, aah..I thought you might not know as you appeared to be asking for his view on his own colleagues.
Good luck with your reconstruction
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@NickyJ, yes, I did use the bioskin support today, and I think it helped.
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