I've skied for some 30+ years, I've been through many phases inc "find the biggest resort" and ski every run part of my ski development, then I started skiing more and more offpiste and trying to track down smaller less well known resorts.
About 5 years ago I felt as if I wasn't really getting anywhere with my skiing, I wasn't enjoying piste skiing and was wondering what to do next. I lost a ski off piste over the back and was up to my waist digging for hours, so I starting thinking about where this was all leading...
Then a chat with rob@rar at the snowheads stand at the London ski show led me to investigate the BASI route.
This was what I was looking for, a way to technically improve my sking and challenge myself. I now own piste skis and really enjoy skiing on piste again and it's improved my off piste no end.
I've put together a short video charting my improvements since 2011, mainly as I wanted to see what I could spot.
First video is short turns, which is a key part of the BASI program. I'll try and add in a few others time permitting!
20th May 2014 - info on distance, speed, elevation etc
for interest comparing a days recreational skiing with a days training...
First up a days skiing with my kids and other adults the week before my L2, this was quite a long day for the kids, from Stuben to Rendl and back. The Garmin only records time skiing, not waiting around, on lifts etc This was skiing mostly reds and blacks at a reasonable pace. Also includes me watching the kids for 2 runs thru the fun park, no way was I risking jumps before my L2!!
24.9mi Distance 2:10:25 Moving Time 15,164ft elevation
Avg Max
Speed 11.4mi/h 42.1mi/h
Elapsed Time 6:26:48
This is a typical BASI L2 day doing a mixture of shorts and longs (mostly on the same slope). I think this may include a download on the Prodain cable car from looking at the track...
43.4mi Distance 4:09:50 Moving Time 23,658ft elevation
Avg Max
Speed 10.4mi/h 37.4mi/h
Elapsed Time 6:58:17
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 20-05-14 22:25; edited 2 times in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nice, looks quite a lot more dynamic in the final run!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Congatulations and thanks for posting. Its a very helpful illustration and good observations on the improvements between a "holiday" skier and "performance" skiing. I also think it is a lot more helpful illustration of the standard required than the official trainer demos.
kitenski, I like that , I don't think I have BASI aspirations, but that sort of turn is what I think I am working towards at the moment so it is good to see how it develops over time. I'd like to know what to aim at - the shots at the end - what sort of run was that? Red? I'm off to CFe on Saturday to continue my practice.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Nice video kitenski great for any intermediate/advanced skier to see how you can progress. look forward to seeing more
Megamum, I think that last run was actually a steep blue
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nice vid kitenski
After all it is free
After all it is free
Nice to see the changes in a single video Good work.
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Great to see the improvements after all the training. From the video what was the KEY change he made to his skiing that improved his performance..
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skimottaret wrote:
Great to see the improvements after all the training. From the video what was the KEY change he made to his skiing that improved his performance..
apart from getting the steezy blue helmet, I'd say it's getting a little more forward so he's driving the skis and a more dynamic transition so the edges are engaged much earlier in the turn
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Good question and agree with above, for me its all about becoming more centered over the skis for more of the turn then everything else follows.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Orange poles?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
Great to see the improvements after all the training. From the video what was the KEY change he made to his skiing that improved his performance..
Separation!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Rate of movement: not pushing the skis sideways at the start of the turn quite so quickly, and therefore finding grip earlier in the turn. Everything else flows from that (more control of turn shape, no need to get out of shape to get thei skis to come around, better set-up for later in the turn so no need to brace and force the end of the turn, etc).
And he's on proper skis
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kieranm wrote:
Quote:
Great to see the improvements after all the training. From the video what was the KEY change he made to his skiing that improved his performance..
Separation!
Which type of separation
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
Which type of separation
Both.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
TTT, spot on ... COM is more over the feet at each clip as he has progressed. The other stuff is good but that is the key improvement imo
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have been watching and trying to think of what I have been learning, my thought is that I think his feet started to steer around the turn more together too.
Fore/aft balance
Weight early on the new outside ski
getting performance out of the ski and using it's shape (thinking tail follows tip)
Megamum, once you get the performance out of the ski it literally catapults from one side to the other (divergence), the skier needs to soften and release pressure at the right time and "ping" over they go I was starting to work on steering the skis more uphill as a way of controlling speed in prep for doing this on steeper runs, but it becomes a very fine balance between steering too much and making them skid...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
kitenski, that's useful information, I must admit I thought your edge change looked very clean and crisp - almost as though you had gone 'flick' and over they went. That catapult you mentioned, I am still working towards it, but I do think I know what you mean as I am sure I have felt the same on odd occasions - it's almost as though it starts to feel very 'slick' sort of 'well that felt 'right'!'. The mind set and skill change that I have seen in the last 12 months has made me think that with practice I could achieve this level of skiing with lots of effort - something that I wouldn't have believed I could do before hand, the key has been feeling what the skis are capable of doing for me - like that 'catapult' you describe - sometimes it is almost as though the skis 'pop' and accelerate me. I might never get as good as you have done (I get far less time on snow), but your video is very useful in showing me what I should be aiming for.
kitenski, The biggest change I saw was that your posture looks MUCH better and I noticed you had slightly more ankle flex on your latter turns. All very smooth. Very well done.
What are you working on now/next in terms of technique?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ALQ wrote:
kitenski, The biggest change I saw was that your posture looks MUCH better and I noticed you had slightly more ankle flex on your latter turns. All very smooth. Very well done.
What are you working on now/next in terms of technique?
Summer, beer, biking!! Doing the C2C in a day (150 miles over Hardknott pass and other 'hills')
But seriously, my report from the trainer notes say to take what I'm doing in shorts and see what I need to increase from a range and rate of movement for steeper slopes.
For longs I'm working on long leg/short leg and varying turn size and bumps on stance width, and bigger hits!
After all it is free
After all it is free
kitenski, Ahhh...steeps, my favourite!! Ze 'ips down ze hill
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kitenski, very interesting videos and comments - looking forward to the next instalment.
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I'm sad to see you no longer ski with your bum sticking out.
And the "hand jive" pole plants are lost to the world forever it seems.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
Rate of movement: not pushing the skis sideways at the start of the turn quite so quickly, and therefore finding grip earlier in the turn. Everything else flows from that (more control of turn shape, no need to get out of shape to get thei skis to come around, better set-up for later in the turn so no need to brace and force the end of the turn, etc).
And he's on proper skis
What full rockered pow destroyers?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski wrote:
I now own piste skis and really enjoy skiing on piste again and it's improved my off piste no end.
This ^ is really tempting me to have a go myself.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski, Thanks for that, a really clear (and concise!) video, showing the progression.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kitenski, am I right in thinking that you have to put a lot of physical effort into the skis and the shape you are making to ski like that, or is it a case that once you can do it you find yourself doing it without conscious input of 'effort'?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum, lots of effort, will be breathing hard at the end of the run.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski, thanks , that all adds to envisaging what I am aiming at and what it will take to achieve it. It is what I suspected your answer would be. I now know that I have to work hard to get the skis to do that and that it will take my conscious input to get it to happen - this is actually informative given what I have already discovered about when I try to make a turn like that. In comparison to carving which I see as a different level of physical input.
I hope you don't mind that I have borrowed your video as something to shoot for, but it is those sort of turns that I've wanted to do for some time now and I think I can now ski well enough to start working towards achieving them. Your nice short video is a good demonstration for me to have in mind as I work towards that .
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
In comparison to carving which I see as a different level of physical input.
I hate to say it but carving is just as hard work. To make a ski bend and perform you need to add and manage pressure onto that ski, regardless of short or long turns.
TBH your aiming at a *VERY* high level, way above "average UK skier" kind of turns, I'm not boasting or anything, I just don't want you to aim for something and be disappointed you can't make it. The more I learn, the less I know and the more work I know I have to do if I want to continue to improve.
What your seeing at the end of the video is a snapshot OUTPUT of all the work I've done over the past two years. If you include the level 2 I failed then since passing my L1 I have had 4 weeks of training with BASI trainers , a long weekend practicing/skiing slow drills with a nervous friend, a weekend in Tignes with Inside Out, and 2 family weeks where I did lots of of drills whenever possible. On top of that I skied moguls every month (almost) at XScape, and did drills on the lower slope after most runs.
If you concentrate on the INPUTS as discussed on your thread namely, your balance, 'pedalling', upper body seperation from the lower body and perfect some of those drills then your short turns will improve.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
If you include the level 2 I failed then since passing my L1 I have had 4 weeks of training with BASI trainers , a long weekend practicing/skiing slow drills with a nervous friend, a weekend in Tignes with Inside Out, and 2 family weeks where I did lots of of drills whenever possible. On top of that I skied moguls every month (almost) at XScape, and did drills on the lower slope after most runs.
and that was after all the work involved in L1 - where although kitenski was a "better than average" skier already, his short turns needed loads more work. And he's an active guy (150 miles on a bike, over the hills, coming up shortly I believe). It's all very well having a goal but except for the most instinctive athletes in the world, that sort of performance needs a lot of expert input to achieve, as well as lots of practice. Just having the odd lesson now and again won't achieve that.
Personally I think it's quite comforting that Greg had to put such a lot of effort in to achieve those nice turns - helps me reconcile myself to my lower level of performance. Most "holiday skiers" will never do such nice turns.
And there is skiing at higher levels than that... It is good to have goals but be happy where you are, the journey can always continue should you wish it to...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
What your seeing at the end of the video is a snapshot OUTPUT of all the work I've done over the past two years
which is why if I could start by getting close to what you start with on the video I shall start to feel pleased!!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
And there is skiing at higher levels than that...
indeed, as kitenski was the first to acknowledge. Whatever we do, there's always somebody who does it better and in so many worthwhile endeavours, the more you learn, the more you realise you have to learn. As one who believes that "if it's worth doing a job, it's worth doing it well enough" - the very antithesis of a perfectionist that doesn't bother me too much. I love watching good skiers - but I don't fret that I'm not like them. I have lessons every year and try to improve a little bit but will never, however hard I try and however many lessons I take, be able to ski as well as my younger son, who's hardly had any lessons - and who felt like a total beginner when he used to hang around with some of the BASS instructors in Val d'Isere but loved skiing with them. Spending too much time comparing yourself to others is a recipe for permanent dissatisfaction. Comparing yourself to where you were last year is more rewarding!
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Umm didn't I say that ? You left out the second part of my sentence.. It is good to have goals but be happy where you are, the journey can always continue should you wish it to...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Is that 3rd video, icy black runs a L4 pass skimottaret,
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
, I don't think I have BASI aspirations, but that sort of turn is what I think I am working towards at the moment so it is good to see how it develops over time. I'd like to know what to aim at - the shots at the end - what sort of run was that? Red? I'm off to CFe on Saturday to continue my practice.
Good work.
