 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey,
I'm looking for a little advice on an idea for a Kids/Teen Academy. If there are points that you think would be helping for educating the kids i would be very grateful.
I've been working as an instructor for about 8 years with both ESF/Brit schools. I notice that once kids get to the level where they can rip around there isnt much for them. So we have the idea of running a little academy in the busier weeks where those kids can have a go at racing, freestlye, off-piste.
For the off-piste there would be mountain safety with transceivers, shovel, probe etc
We have access to a great park with air bag etc
Off the back of JJC (instructor race training) we have all the kit for racing
Is there anything else that you think we could cover?
In my opinion it would be a good way of getting kids educated for the mountain once they are too old for lessons and also giving the younger ones an idea of what they would like to do (race, off-piste, Gap, instructor...). Hopefully this will keep them in the sport and guide them to taking the right steps in the future.
There may be similar things in other areas but in the Porte du Soleil no one offers this.
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hey James.
Yea we do it at TDC here in the EK. Semi popular but then again as we don't do kids group lessons in the first place we don't have a natural pick up of kids from a lower level into the packages. Market it right and teach it right and the kids / teens love it!
Steve
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jjc james, yes, I think that would all go down well. I saw notices in Les Contamines a couple of years ago advertising "skiercross" sessions for kids who had attained a sufficiently high ski level - I should think that that (and boardercross) would be popular too.
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I think it is a very good idea. Lots of my friends when they had young teenagers, often far more able than their parents, got really stuck for what to do with their offspring once 'normal' ski school became too boring! As a parent I would be very happy with the aspect of mountain safety being hammered into the youngsters in a fun way by instructors they would respect!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This exists over here. Gnerally termed 'All Mountain programmes'. The ones at sunshine take them into Delerium Dive etc
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igLou,
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2 hour lessons booked with an instructor who takes them off the beaten track and at greater speeds than us
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^^^^This is what we did for ours - they have done well with it too.
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| Megamum wrote: |
igLou,
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2 hour lessons booked with an instructor who takes them off the beaten track and at greater speeds than us
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^^^^This is what we did for ours - they have done well with it too. |
Yeah i ended up teaching a lot of 2 hour race, bumps, off piste etc lessons where we couldn't really get into it or cover all aspects. Price wise we are looking at £300ish for 3 hours each morning and a private in some of the schools is 140-200 for 2 hours (in peak weeks). So it would defo cover way more safety, tech and fun.
One of the issues with ski cross and the park side of things is suitable equipment as hardly any kids will turn up with a back protector... but if they knew in advance it could be done. even just buying a ton and hiring them out.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 21-04-14 14:41; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Steve Angus, how do you deal with the transceivers do you just have a certain amount to give them on arrival? Or advise they get their own so they are familiar with it when skiing in their own group?
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How about including video of them skiing and at the end of the week ( maybe last two days ) do an on/offpiste video in the style of a real ski/board video they would buy/watch with all members having a part.
during the week you would do general piste skiing/boarding maybe some half pipe skier cross jumps onto the air bag ( don't show the bag  ). Then move onto offpiste skiing and do the same good camera angles will produce some fantastic images that make it look a lot more extreme than it actually was, plus some high speed camera stuff as well.
Involve the kids in aspects of the shoot as well and music selection this could be done in the evening ( one or two ) giving parents a chance to go out for a romantic meal minus the kids. Also I think once you get it established you and your fellow instructors would have just as much fun.
The stuff filmed the other days means you should have some great scenes for each person even if they have an off day that makes them look like a real pro.
At the end of the week you compile all the video footage and each kid gets their own "professional" movie starring themselves and the other kids ( signed parental permission may be need at initial sign up for the course).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds like a good idea to me too.
Mine had done all the ski school stuff up to competition by the age of 11, had skied with the local ski club for a season and had his fleche vermeil. We went down the same route as Megamum and iglou in subsequent years which was fine for continuing to develop his skiing/ letting him ski at the pace and on the terrain that he was capable of, but it would have been great for him to be able to join a group of other kids to do a similar thing and get the social element of things too
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In the US most mountains offer a team program - http://squaw.com/ski-teams - shows all the ones Squaw Valley offers. These could be adapted to just fit a week long schedule, rather than the whole season.
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, the private ski instructor option for your children is the advantage of having them close enough together in age and/or ability so that can ski together with the instructor/guide and enjoy themselves. However we had friends with children either too far apart in age or ability for that to be a fun choice. I think that's where the OP`s idea would come in very useful.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As a family of three where the child is probably the best skier, he's starting to become a bit bored skiing with the olds. I try to keep up, but even though the OH is the more technically sound than me she doesn't like trying to keep up. Jnr has suggested he do snowboarding lessons, but I know there's so much more he can be learning with his skiing that I've tried to poo-poo this idea and suggested we go for park, off piste or gates tuition instead.
This sort of course would be perfect for him.
jjc james, we were in Valmeinier at half term too and really liked the area. Although I did nearly get taken out by an ESF instructor (and the many children following him) who decided to jump off a lip at high speed onto a busy piste (not that you want to hear my moans!).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Cheers for all the feedback will let you know how it all comes along!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think there are an increasing number of smaller ski schools getting the same idea and putting on some quite well thought through programmes for children and teenagers who have progressed through normal ski school. Marmalade is one that springs to mind:
http://www.skimarmalade.com/whats-on-offer/marmalades-youth/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sarah, is it an all day or half day programme. I have worked for BASS and ran a few All Mountains, this academy would be far more in depth. almost a bridge between ski school and professional instructing/competing there is only so much you can do in 2 hours when most suitable terrain is a couple of lifts away from the meeting point. thats one of the things we are trying to move away from by using the race training, park and all mountain. Not just skiing terrain as a blue, red, all mountain.
Megamum, we are either half day or full day, there just isnt the time to really cover anything other than the blast around factor otherwise.
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jjc james, officially it's two hours which is not long enough, but last week we had enough kids for an exclusive group and did half days. Hoping it will be developed a bit more for next season, I have given them my feedback.
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James, For us with a mixed ability family; what you need to do is offer a fully catered all day session; "drop off and forget"; maybe with a known (or planned) lunch stop so we could (if we wanted) meet them for lunch.
We have used the St. Anton ski school for a while and they offer proper all day lessons; AKA lunch with the instructor so we could leave them all day.
Michael skied with me this year and we skied all the Alpe d'Huez area in the morning; collected my wife and daughter from ski school at lunch and then returned them to ski school after lunch. bit of a pain for us; but OK I suppose.
Next time we ski as a family; we are not sure what to do with Michael!
Do you forsee being able to set full SL or GS courses for the kids? Michael would be interested in a few full-on race days and probably all mountain / park etc.
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jjc james, Interesting idea. Not relevant to my children as they are not yet at that stage, but I think the idea has potential. On our last two skiing holidays we have seen friends' children give up on ski school after 2-3 days simply because the ski school seemed unable to cater for any child with more than about five weeks experience. They were lumped in with children of far lower experience/ability and became bored witless very fast indeed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
They were lumped in with children of far lower experience/ability
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Yup, that's what we found. Mine stuck it out (they are like that), but got nothing from it. We went private lessons after that.
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| Megamum wrote: |
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They were lumped in with children of far lower experience/ability
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Yup, that's what we found. Mine stuck it out (they are like that), but got nothing from it. We went private lessons after that. |
We've had that too, that's when we needed to look for the ski school first and resort second.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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scooby_simon, yeah could defo do full courses, we have enough gates to set 3 + brushes, stubbies etc
Megamum, the difference with this is it isnt just skiiing around, they are training so if you had a course/park they would be having a go, getting feedback, having another go. Coaching where possible from 1 location and having the kids lap around on one lift. That way they never wait on a slower kid. Obviously off piste is different but when conditions are poor we'd do more of the other stuff, not just dragging them round the mountain for the sake of it.
For example 2 weeks ago snow conditions would have made this the best plan:
9.15-11.15 Snow is Rock hard, ski piste SL, GS, Technical
11.30-1.30 Softens up a bit ski some off piste play with transceivers
2.00-4.00 Too slushy on and off piste so head to park to play on the terrain and features...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sarah,foxtrotzulu, Megamum, the top level of the ESF programme is very high (no doubt jjc james could describe it in detail). But maybe that level is not taught every week? And maybe they will only take kids who have come through their system, so they can be sure of their standard. Have your kids really exceeded that level? I've seen ESF groups shooting very fast down unpisted black runs, and doing some pretty nifty looking slaloms.
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pam w, To be fair, in both cases I mentioned above it wasn't ESF. However, I do wonder if even the ESF would have the same issues. It's not so much that the ski schools are unable to teach to a higher level, it's more that if you aren't in the very biggest resort at the peak of the season [last week of March, before the State schools break up] then they don't have the number of students to justify running a class at that level. Actually, I'm not sure if that really is the reason, that's just my take on it.
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You know it makes sense.
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foxtrotzulu, I booked a cross-country course with ESF at New Year. In the event there were 3 of us in the class, but it still ran. But I can imagine that they're not running all the levels, every week. Something to check out early on, before booking other aspects of a holiday, maybe.
From my own observation (round the family and friends) kids tend to think they have "grown out of" ski school at relatively modest levels of attainment. The French seem to take it for granted, much more than Brits do, that the kids go each year until they have genuinely graduated the programme.
My own kids, once they had (in 2 out of 3 cases) a relatively modest level of ability, wanted to racket round the mountain with friends and cousins. Which they did - we generally went to places (e.g. Valmeinier/Valloire) where they were not likely to get themselves into too terrible trouble.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, well as a UK, not brilliant skiing parent what do I base my judgement of 'they have outgrown standard ski school' on?
All I have to go on is what I see and what I have been told by other instructors. What I see is that the last two times (i.e. two years running) they attended 'regular ski school' which would have been with Arc Adventures they came back with the highest badge levels they could attain. It was their instructors then that told me that they were learning nothing from normal ski school and that the next stage was race training or general all mountain skiing under instructor guidance and they didn't fancy the former. I know that with an instructor they have skied the black from the top of Aiguille rouge to its end in Les Arcs, also that they have skied a mogulled Marielle (black) in VT. They have also been taken down slalom runs, down steep off piste areas and through the trees in Ski amade. I haven't nothing, but this sort of evidence to base my assessment on. I think they are 'pretty good' and IMO they ought to be as although it's only been holiday skiing they have been doing it since they were 3 years old - My eldest is slightly tidier because she tries all the time, my youngest can be tidy when he wants to be, but would rather have more fun on the journey down LOL. From what I am told (after all - WT*DIK) they are beyond normal ski school and who am I to argue?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, If they've passed all the levels they can do in ski school (including the ESF or equivalent Austrian) then they no doubt have outgrown ski school. But a lot of kids (including my own) reckon they have done so long before they really have!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jjc james,
have a look at what Spirit do in Arc 1950 - http://www.spirit1950.com/en/ski.aspx They spotted quite early on that a parallel strategy was required because with so many Brit owners coming out with children doing 2, 3, 4 weeks a year, it was clearly a different market to those more traditionally doing 1 week per year.
And of course if you go back to when we learnt, it was only at 14, 15, 16 you started going with the school. So the idea of 'not locals', but 9 or 10 year old with 20 weeks experience (see for example Mini Roll) is relatively new, and not everyone has seen the changing demographic yet. Sounds like you may have!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, my son is like Arctic Roll's daughter and has had 18 weeks by the age of 9.
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I was a bit confused by some of the comments - surely when the kids get to this point they can just ski with you all day. Then I realised that the problem is that the kids are outskiing the parents 
Our two are 9 and 11 and have done about 10 weeks each. They are a lot of fun to ski with now. Just done 5 days in which they didnt have any lessons and skied with me all over the place (easy off-piste, black mogul runs, etc). We have been putting them in private lessons (together or with another couple of friends where possible) for 2 hours a day. Pricy but much better VFM than ski school IMO. I think they are now at the point that we may do what Megamum suggests and just book a couple of private lessons a week.
Getting back to the OP, I'd love to have the option of dropping the kids into that kind of programme for a couple of days a week but I'd not commit to a full week - I actually want to spend more time skiing with them.
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I think it is a fantastic idea, and is exactly the kind of think I would have loved to have done as a teenager (if I had been a good enough skier!).
I do think that three days of full days would be a better course option though - gives the family some time together and also means you have a good length of time to take the group to the best areas and don't have to waste too much of the lesson 'getting there' and 'getting back'.
I don't think you should have to say 'we'll be at x mountain hut for lunch' because that limits where you can go if conditions change. And really, what 13 year old wants their mummy dropping in on their extreme all mountain ski club to give them a kiss at lunchtime?!?
pam w people aren't saying their children are better than the super douper top ESF level, they are saying they aren't getting anything out of the ski school available to them. Factor in an English speaking guide requirement and enough people to run the courses and I doubt many English holiday children get access to the best ESF level classes.
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jedster,
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I'd love to have the option of dropping the kids into that kind of programme for a couple of days a week but I'd not commit to a full week - I actually want to spend more time skiing with them.
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Def. this ^^^ I think two days would be attractive as an option.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
And really, what 13 year old wants their mummy dropping in on their extreme all mountain ski club to give them a kiss at lunchtime?!?
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A two-day option sounds good to me - sensible balance between family ski time and stretching the kids. A long time till any of mine need that, though I dare say the time goes very quickly. It would be pretty expensive, though - two days in a small group?
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Our local ESF has c. 60 instructors I think (i.e. it's not very big) and offers 4 kids classes once they've got their etoile d'or: evasion, competition 1, competition 2 (Bronze Chamois/Fleche and above) and freestyle. It offers everything from 1 morning to 6 full days. Is this unusual? I'm amazed that the PdS don't have an equivalent of that.
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FAQ
!!'
So it clearly works for them 
.
) As you say that is probably a change from, say, 25 years ago. In fact when mine learned they would beat many of the local kids in the end of week ski race when they were about 5 or 6 years old (the eldest won one year which I suspect put a few noses 'out of joint' 
).