 Poster: A snowHead
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Just curious, really; how far do you expect TOs to lie about transfer times?
I've never really paid much attention on previous holidays, but I noticed that Ingham's advertise a 2.5 hour transfer time Geneva-Zermatt when it was actually more like 4 without any obvious cause for delays. Is that a typical level of "artistic licence"?
(I only really noticed this time because they made us leave the chalet at 0545 for a 1320 flight which seemed completely outrageous)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If they lie about the trivial stuff how can you be sure they're not lying about the important stuff?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have you referred it to you local Trading Standards Office?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The transfer time is normally from when you cross the Zermatt city limits to when you cross the Geneva city limits.
2.5 hours to cover 240km for a bus, on swiss roads, sounds ambitious though, Mappy suggests 4 hours for a coach and by train 3h50.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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geneva isn't really the best airport for zermatt
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well viamichelin.com quickest route says 3:10 (in a car) so lets say 3.30 in a bus so yes a bit more than a fib. So they added 2.05 for Mum, weather and Saturday/Sunday traffic, weather and folk being late (to make a 2hr check in). That might be a bit more than the norm but would generally be dictated by the bus company given a 'no later than' arrival time at the airport. To delay a flight would cost Inghams a bomb so they are always going to be padded times. Additionally, it gives time for the chalet staff to clean the chalet for the arrivals etc.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Well viamichelin.com quickest route says 3:10 (in a car) so lets say 3.30 in a bus so yes a bit more than a fib. So they added 2.05 for Mum, weather and Saturday/Sunday traffic, weather and folk being late (to make a 2hr check in). That might be a bit more than the norm but would generally be dictated by the bus company given a 'no later than' arrival time at the airport. To delay a flight would cost Inghams a bomb so they are always going to be padded times. Additionally, it gives time for the chalet staff to clean the chalet for the arrivals etc. |
Sure, the padding is understandable, it's just what prompted looking back at the advertised transfer time.
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| finestgreen wrote: |
Just curious, really; how far do you expect TOs to lie about transfer times?
I've never really paid much attention on previous holidays, but I noticed that Ingham's advertise a 2.5 hour transfer time Geneva-Zermatt when it was actually more like 4 without any obvious cause for delays. Is that a typical level of "artistic licence"?
(I only really noticed this time because they made us leave the chalet at 0545 for a 1320 flight which seemed completely outrageous) |
pretty much always TBH... They never seem to be the amount of time they "suggest"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As we drive, I stick to the accepted lies of - nearly there and around the next corner
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Tignes to Bourg St Maurice, normally 35 minutes. On a snowy Saturday 1.5 - 2.0 hrs
Tignes to Albertville, normally 1.25 hrs. On a Saturday 2 weeks ago I hadn't got half way in 2.5 hrs!!
How can TO's account for these variations??
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Well viamichelin.com quickest route says 3:10 (in a car) so lets say 3.30 in a bus |
a bus has a 100kp/h speed limiter so will be more than 20 minutes slower.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Brings back bad memories of a transfer to Livigno....
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Perhaps it depends on what you are using the transfer information for.
If you are looking to minimise transfer times, perhaps because you're travelling with children, then it's an issue if what is advertised as a 2-hour transfer turns out to be 5 hours or more. Likewise on the return journey - the OP has every reason to be annoyed if a transfer bus for a 13.20 flight leaves much before 08.20 for a 2.5 hour transfer (allowing 2 hours for check-in and 30 mins contingency) unless there are exceptional weather or traffic conditions.
Likewise, if you're landing at the airport at 10.00 and thinking that you might be able to ski in the afternoon in your resort that is advertised as being a 2-hour transfer away. You're going to be less than pleased to discover that your coach is waiting for the Manchester and Bristol flights, which are arriving within the next 90 minutes or so, you're stopping off at 2 other resorts on the way and your hotel is the last hotel when you finally arrive at your resort, making the total journey time from landing at the airport to your hotel something like 6 hours.
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You know it makes sense.
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We give the journey times with clear roads then put a disclaimer admitting that on a busy Saturday, anything can happen!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I had a similar issue with Inghams years ago. We had booked the first week of their season in Obergurgl one of the reasons was that it was a short transfer time To Innsbruck. I got a called to say that our outbound flight needed to change to somewhere else - Munich maybe? My first question was how long was the transfer and I get car sick and that was part of the reason for picking that holiday. I was assured (over the phone 2.5hrs), so I agreed to it, I discovered afterwards it was 4hrs! If they had been up front I would have tried to Change to a week later (it wasn't that much more).
I know always independently check the quote transfer times always before booking - if you look at crystal website they claim 3.5hrs which is probably a little optimistic but at least it is in the right ball park.
I would complain as the inghs website still quite that time.
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Poster: A snowHead
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stewart woodward,
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How can TO's account for these variations??
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I don't think they can and putting the transfer time down as the transfer time in reasonable conditions is probably fair enough, putting a time down which is inconceivable under ordinary or even perfect conditions is just lying
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I believe that generally TO suggest a transfer time which is the best they are likely to achieve, so direct to single resort, in good traffic conditions at the legal travel speed. If they add multiple resorts into the 'coach' party this would increase the transfer time.
so 'peak weekends may mean slower traffic and therefore transfers extend. not really sure if some of the coaches take non toll routes to keep cost down, this can also add a little time. Geneva - Zermatt is always 4 hrs as far as I'm aware, to suggest its anything else is misleading the potential customer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| NickyJ wrote: |
I had a similar issue with Inghams years ago. We had booked the first week of their season in Obergurgl one of the reasons was that it was a short transfer time To Innsbruck. I got a called to say that our outbound flight needed to change to somewhere else - Munich maybe? My first question was how long was the transfer and I get car sick and that was part of the reason for picking that holiday. I was assured (over the phone 2.5hrs), so I agreed to it, I discovered afterwards it was 4hrs! If they had been up front I would have tried to Change to a week later (it wasn't that much more).
I know always independently check the quote transfer times always before booking - if you look at crystal website they claim 3.5hrs which is probably a little optimistic but at least it is in the right ball park.
I would complain as the inghs website still quite that time. |
We had a similar problem with Esprit two weekends ago on the way to Obergurgl, our flight from Manchester was diverted from Innsbruck to Freidrichshafen due to heavy snow and fog at Innsbruck and we were told this as we checked in at Manchester and informed that the transfer would be 1hr longer, I have driven in Austria quite a bit and was fully aware that this would be at least 2hrs longer with the weather conditions. We were more than happy to accept this as it was out of their hands and we would have great snow for the week.
Where things started to go badly wrong was after we had collected our luggage and made it to the coach for our transfer, we were then told to go back to the airport as we had to wait approx. 3hrs for the flight from Gatwick to arrive. This wait coupled with a transfer that ended up taking nearly 4hrs was pretty taxing to say the least when you are traveling with a 5yr old, a 4yr old and an 11month old. We did not arrive in resort until nearly 10pm and this really had a knock on effect for the first few days. I have used Esprit a few times before and been very happy with them and find them the most child friendly tour operator I have used (you do pay a premium for this) however by adding an extra 3hrs delay to an already extended transfer was not acceptable and in no way in line with their child friendly image. We have lodged a complaint with the resort manager and will be writing to their head office.
That all said we all had a great time and all the resort/chalet staff were again brilliant with the kids.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The complication with Zermatt is that the transfer bus won't actually be to get to your hotel: if will only take you as far as Tasch and then you have to take to the train to Zermatt and then the electric taxis (or whatever) within Zermatt - this can easily add 1.5hrs onto the travelling time on the bus.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Flaine skier wrote: |
| geneva isn't really the best airport for zermatt |
?? where would you suggest be a better airport?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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sion, no idea if there are still flights and it doesnt have much in the way of instrument approaches for foggy weather.
was pretty awesome when i went gliding there in summer though
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hobbiteater, ha ha, errr, the only scheduled flights out of Sion are in summer, to Corsica.
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| hobbiteater wrote: |
sion, no idea if there are still flights and it doesnt have much in the way of instrument approaches for foggy weather.
was pretty awesome when i went gliding there in summer though |
+1 also be warned there is only 1 female toilet before going through customs
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| hobbiteater, ha ha, errr, the only scheduled flights out of Sion are in summer, to Corsica. |
We were on chartered flights when we went there to zermatt
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under a new name, there was, stopped last year after a google
might as well go air zermatt to zermatt itself then
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is anyone going to La Grave tomorrow from Lyon and fancy sharing a taxi / having me along on a bus with them? BA cancelled my flight so I am missing transfer. Grrr.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hobbiteater, Snowjet used to fly to Sion from Stansted but stopped more than a year ago.
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| mbeaney wrote: |
| NickyJ wrote: |
I had a similar issue with Inghams years ago. We had booked the first week of their season in Obergurgl one of the reasons was that it was a short transfer time To Innsbruck. I got a called to say that our outbound flight needed to change to somewhere else - Munich maybe? My first question was how long was the transfer and I get car sick and that was part of the reason for picking that holiday. I was assured (over the phone 2.5hrs), so I agreed to it, I discovered afterwards it was 4hrs! If they had been up front I would have tried to Change to a week later (it wasn't that much more).
I know always independently check the quote transfer times always before booking - if you look at crystal website they claim 3.5hrs which is probably a little optimistic but at least it is in the right ball park.
I would complain as the inghs website still quite that time. |
We had a similar problem with Esprit two weekends ago on the way to Obergurgl, our flight from Manchester was diverted from Innsbruck to Freidrichshafen due to heavy snow and fog at Innsbruck and we were told this as we checked in at Manchester and informed that the transfer would be 1hr longer, I have driven in Austria quite a bit and was fully aware that this would be at least 2hrs longer with the weather conditions. We were more than happy to accept this as it was out of their hands and we would have great snow for the week.
Where things started to go badly wrong was after we had collected our luggage and made it to the coach for our transfer, we were then told to go back to the airport as we had to wait approx. 3hrs for the flight from Gatwick to arrive. This wait coupled with a transfer that ended up taking nearly 4hrs was pretty taxing to say the least when you are traveling with a 5yr old, a 4yr old and an 11month old. We did not arrive in resort until nearly 10pm and this really had a knock on effect for the first few days. I have used Esprit a few times before and been very happy with them and find them the most child friendly tour operator I have used (you do pay a premium for this) however by adding an extra 3hrs delay to an already extended transfer was not acceptable and in no way in line with their child friendly image. We have lodged a complaint with the resort manager and will be writing to their head office.
That all said we all had a great time and all the resort/chalet staff were again brilliant with the kids. |
Had a similar issue. Diversion to Friedrichshafen, journey to Arabba took 12 hours instead of 4 as we sat at a service station for hours waiting for others who had been diverted to Munich!
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You know it makes sense.
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| dobby wrote: |
| Brings back bad memories of a transfer to Livigno.... |
the ski resort at the end of the Universe 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dubaian, my first and worst ski trip
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Poster: A snowHead
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mbeaney, not good! I hope you get somewhere and they make some changes. If you aren't satisfied with there response post on there facebook page tends to get somebody to talk to you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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finestgreen, I saw this and though it must be a mistake and have checked a Crystal brochure and that says 3.5 hours but doesn't say if that includes the train journey from Tasch. We normally get the train and that takes around 4.5 hrs which includes a change at Visp.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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finestgreen, I understand that the Inghams brochure says 2.5 hrs which from experience I thought was a mistake. I was commenting on what it said in the Crystal brochure which is more realistic and what it normally takes us by train from Geneva.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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2 years ago it took us 6 hours to get from les arcs to chambery airport, apparently congestion caused by the x games, i made a few phone calls to crystal on the coach and they assured us the flight would not leave without us, when we arrived at the airport we were fast tracked through customs, much to the annoyance of people queueing in front of us, when we got on the plane we found that people had been sat on the plane for 3 hours waiting for other people to arrive, as no one was allowed of the plane people were fainting in the heat, babies were crying, it was an absolute nightmare, and then we still had to wait another hour before everyone was on board and we could take off.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So, I emailed Inghams and they said "Thank you for taking the time to write in with your comments. We have passed on your comments to our Product Manager for Switzerland who will consider your comments for the future.". Ho hum.
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I would say it's fair to quote the time from walking out the airport to getting to the resorts first hotel, with good traffic.
In an era when airlines are being forced to pay compensation for the most minor delays that are out of their hands it seems inconcivable that the airline would have to fork out hundres of euros for the flight being 3 hours late, but the TO can hapily delay the transfer for much longer with no comeback.
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compostcorner, that sounds most unpleasant; a good advert for doing DIY - responsible for getting yourself to the airport and the flight will happily take off without anybody who has failed to do so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, except he would have missed the flight and had to purchase another ticket.
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lots of posts above confirm my almost exclusive but albeit expensive, choice of having private transfers.
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FAQ
