Whole-season 2015/16 suggestions

A snowHead

Bit of background:
I have a certain flexibility that lets me work from more or less anywhere I can get a decent internet link. In practice, this means somewhere I can get more skiing in Very Happy

. Last season I bounced around Grandvalira, Chamonix, Les Arcs before going back to Grandvalira to avoid as much of half-term crowds as I could. I stayed mostly in hostels, with an Airbnb and a small self-catered chalet thrown in as well. My typical day looked like this: Wake up 8:30, breakfast, at the lifts by 9:30, ski, (eat lunch sandwich on the lifts), ski some more until ~2:45 or 3, head "home", shower, work from 3:30, make and eat dinner, work until midnight, repeat (x5). Weekends I just ski longer or run errands. I speak French and some Spanish.

What I'm looking for:
- Great skiing all season Very Happy

I'll probably be there from just after the new year until late march
- Plenty of late intermediate/early expert (and higher) terrain, with good off-piste. One of the goals for the season is to become an 'expert' skier and progress off-piste
- Decent english-speaking ski school, though can be French if necessary
- Availability of full-season accommodations, can be shared. A hostel can be a bit too busy to work out of but I don't want to hole up in a hotel for months. Most French resort apartments are horrible little boxes.
- Self-catering, for cost reasons. Hopefully someplace to grocery shop, which may tilt more to being in 'town' than at a resort, but I took a bus for 30 minutes in Andorra to do a shop and I'd be ok with that.
- Decent fixed internet and cell coverage (as a backup)
- Must be in Europe for timezone reasons
- Prefer not to rely on buses. Ski-in/ski-out not practical, but a 15-20 minute walk is ok.

Bonus points:
- Heli- or cat-skiing operator. I don't really want to pay full price but if they have an extra seat at the last minute I'd be happy to fill it for them at a discount!

Non-factors:
- Apres ski. Given my schedule, I only have time to ski and work
- On-hill food options. I pack a lunch to save money and ski more Very Happy

- Family friendliness. No kids to care for
- Non-ski activities
- Cost, to a degree. 1000E for a 3V season pass isn't going to break me, but $100/day in accommodations will!

I've looked at doing an L1/L2 course somewhere, but I don't know if it would work out since I can't really attend any classes past mid-afternoon. On the other hand, I don't care about the certification so it might still be a way to get a lot of tuition for (relatively) not a lot of money. The focus is on improving skills so I'll be looking for private or semi-private clinics and lessons for a few weeks.

As far as resorts go, I think the current front-runner is Arabba but the Italian stance on off-piste is giving me pause. Maybe Montgenevre? I wasn't that keen on Chamonix, with the busing and ancient infrastructure. Les Arcs was alright, but I feel like I got bored there quickly. Grandvalira would be great if it had some more adventurous (and higher) terrain.

Thoughts on ski areas or resorts?
How do I best find an apartment/room/bed?
Should I do an L1/L2 course? (Slightly OT in this forum but worth an ask)

A snowHead

- Heli- or cat-skiing operator. That sort of more or less rules out (or at least limits) France.

- Plenty of late intermediate/early expert (and higher) terrain, with good off-piste. So Les Arcs would be perfect?

doing an L1/L2 course So your ambitions really aren't to become an 'expert' skier

the current front-runner is Arabba but the Italian stance on off-piste is giving me pause What Italian stance?

Chamonix manages to entertain lots of very good skiers, for many seasons, with its ancient Puzzled

infrastructure For a season you'd want a car then you wouldn't need to use the bus. It's also pretty well set up for seasonal accommodation as it has to cope with not just the usual influx of seasonal workers for a town/system of its size, but also large numbers of ski and climbing bums

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Montgenevre is a lovely resort, but aimed more at families / intermediates than "experts", though I have heard that the off piste is underrated....
It is part of the Milkyway, so lots more skiing to be had, but a car is probably needed as the links to the other parts of the area are rather slow.

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If Austria is in the mix, then some great info in this thread

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118677

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I appreciate both replies. Truth is, I'm not hugely familiar with skiing in Europe so forgive me if I have misperceptions about areas or resorts.

@under a new name: What Italian stance?

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=78687
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=98433
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=107120

An avi gear requirement makes sense, but that seems to be a Piemonte requirement and not an Italy-wide one. It's 'ok' as long as you're not 'too close' to the lifts, probably, unless you cause an avalanche (and they catch you?). It just seems a bit ambiguous, but I don't have firsthand experience.

You are absolutely right about Chamonix though. I was there last year as a not very experienced piste skier and did not enjoy myself, which may be clouding my thinking. It is the Mecca, for the right reasons, though.

Re L1/L2, it seemed like a way to get a lot of tuition but it make be focused in the wrong place. My goal is to become as good a skier I can be, in as short a time as I can. I'm quite open on how to achieve that.

edit: @Mike Pow Cheers, I didn't see that one. What a great thread!
edit2: Looks like my life would be considerably easier if my car wasn't on another continent.

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@whiteout, No forgiveness needed.

As far as I can determine, Italy is more or less like other Alpine nations in that if you set off an avalanche and it hurts someone else or their property you may find yourself liable. I'm pretty sure that's applicable in France as well and I'd expect it in Switzerland but don't know. However, an exception is Piedmonte where avvy kit is mandatory.

There are also local areas where by dint of particular high risk (some pitches above Vallorcine in France or Courmayeur in Aoste, Italy) you are just not allowed to ski. Saving the local bunny population is also sometimes a reason. Again, Italy is not unusual in this regards afaik.

Hmmm, yes, not very experienced, yep, Cham may not come across as the mecca that it is. Especially if it's busy and you're on the busy buses.

It occurs to me that somewhere like Nendaz might appeal. Access to 4 vallees for much better $$$. Also might allow easy access to Warren Smith's or Snowork's instruction camps which would, to my mind, be a much better way to structure a season's instruction... I think an L1/L2 course will mean skiing at someone else's pace and direction far too much, although you would certainly get better as a skier yourself. Sounds like you want to spend all your time working and skiing and not devote any of it to learning to teach.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@clarky999, what if the deer crashes into you (as happened on my MTB once)? Blame the deer, I say

@dobby, I'd class that as a bbq-able offence wink

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I'd have a look at Flaine. Season pass should be less than €500 if purchased before about 10 December. Plenty of s/c accommodation. Reasonable shopping in resort, but you might want to consider a trip down the mountain every few weeks to get better variety and prices. A lot of the accommodation is less than a 5 minute walk from the lifts and there is a good free bus service.

And now I get controversial........

The Ski Club of Great Britain runs week long courses for most (if not all) of the season in Flaine. You can do 'course only' (ie avoid paying for catered accommodation) - these are courses with French instructors and therefore not affected by the legal problems the SCGB finds itself in. 2015/16 programme not yet released but the 2014/15 programme is still on their site. It would mean that you have to leave early each day to fulfill your work commitments. Courses include graduated off piste instruction.

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Good suggestion @Chris Mason, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to find seasonal accommodation in Flaine itself. Les Carroz, Morillon or Samoens might be an easier bet. But pre Dec 10 (or whatever the date is this year) season passes should be 50% discounted.

For accommodation, Marcellus certainly used to run a seasonal rental agency (I think).

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I think, doing a season, I'd either want to be:
1) bang in the thick of things ie. connected resort + virtually ski in/ski out
or 2) have a car

Might it not make sense to buy a car as a run-around to see you through the season? Buy it in the region and it'll likely have Winter tyres on already.

You mention Arabba. It is fantastically well connected to the Sela Ronda but I wouldn't have thought there would be a lot of affordable season-long rentals available. I visited Alleghe last Winter (which is 25km down the hill from Arabba) and met a Brit who rented an apartment there for the whole of each Winter for very little money. Its own ski area has about 85km and a load of off-piste that rarely gets touched because most of its traffic is local families on the weekend. Magda Ciapella (for access to the Marmalada => Sela Ronda) is about 15mins on the bus.
The thing is though, there are so many other domains nearby, which are all on the Superski lift pass, that having a car to replace your 20 min walk with a 20 min drive opens up limitless options.

You know it makes sense.

@under a new name, you've got it right, I'm not interested in teaching at all, just picking up more skills.

Snoworks and Warren Smith both appear to be based in Verbier proper, and judging from the piste map, it's a 6-lift journey from Nendaz to the top of the Ruinettes lift where at least one of the schools meets. Is the Verbier village not practical in terms of accomodation?

Grand Massif seasons are indeed 475€ before Dec 10, which looks like quite a steal.

I'm wondering now if I was looking at things backwards. Is it better to look at this in terms of choosing instructors around which to structure a seasons worth of tuition first, and look at resorts they operate in second?

@admin Agreed on the two options. I've been leaning to the former because I'm not sure how easy it is to buy and register a car as a non-resident. Something to look into then.

Is there a source, aside from polling peoples individual experiences, to get a feel for what the season-long rental options look like in a given area? I expect purpose-built resorts to be a complete no-go, but don't have a feel for what to look for on that front. Town or village over a certain size? For example, Verbier itself vs Nendaz?

@Layne I should have qualified that as "most I've seen". An unfair overgeneralization on my part. I'd likely have a place in Bourg if I chose Paradiski as the resort, though it's a bit of a ways to Vallandry or Arc 2000 for New Generation.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@whiteout, I would expect Verbier itself to be very expensive. However, further down that valley, e.g. Le Chable (which is where the main area parking is now and connects directly into the skiing without changing) might be a more economically viable option and would easily let you access Verbier instruction.

Choosing instructors first might be fine but you might find you don't like their styles.

Also, with a whole season to choose from, you could try a few different areas, although that likely makes accommodation more expensive.

A snowHead

Accommodation and lift/seasons passes, both.

A snowHead

There are some good wide-area lift passes though.
Eg. The Snowcard Tirol pass in Austria (claims 4,000km)
Domlomiti Superski in the Dolomites (1500km)
Aosta Valley Pass (950km)

There are bound to be others...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

There's a Valais ski card - although I think it works out well if you've got kids in local schools who are racing in lots of different stations each weekend it never looked particularly cost effective otherwise.

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@admin Indeed. I found a sample of them. It's all a bit overwhelming. It's hard to argue with the value of the Tirol Snowcard, though I'd very much need a car. Having looked into that part of the equation, it looks like a monumental headache to register and insure one as a non-resident so I'd likely end up with a long-term rental at 1000-1200€/month which puts a nice big bent in the budget and offsets any of the savings from being able to live a little further downmountain but gives much more flexibility. I'd break even on shipping my car to/from after about 5 months, insurance aside, so that's not much of an option.

I do like both the Dolomiti and Tirol options if I can get my hands on a car.

I do like Verbier for the resort, and access to both WS and Snoworks.

Appreciate the input, folks.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

whiteout, You might get better answers if you gave a bit more detail on your nationality and where you are living now. The most common way to do whole winters in the Alps is to just drive there in your own car.

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rjs, noted. As to the former, I'm a Polish/Canadian dual citizen. As to the latter, I nominally 'reside' near Toronto though in practice, I pretty much live on the road.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

I'll take another look at the bus network from Innsbruck but I'm not terribly keen on relying on public transit to get me to the mountain.

Near as I can tell, I can buy a car, and might be able to register it in the UK as a non-resident (but with a valid address) but nowhere else in the EU. I'll investigate if I can get it registered in Poland when I'm there next month but that's just getting silly. Getting a prepaid SIM is luckily much easier than the headache you describe, and the rates aren't unreasonable though LTE doesn't seem widely available.

@whiteout, don't forget the trains too - easy from IBK to places like St Anton and Kitzbühel, amongst others.

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@whiteout, given your difficulties in taking a car, I wouldn't bother. There are loads of resorts where you just won't need one, and I wouldn't get hung up on needing access to lots of resorts. Generally speaking, I think the more time you spend in a resort and get to know it, the more skiing you realise there is available, and possibilities start to seem endless rather than limited. I spent a season in Paradiski, and can't imagine getting bored with the skiing in a decade really. There is loads of off-piste potential of all levels, and a number of itinerary runs that you can use as off-piste practice. Bourg is quite a good base, because you can be up the mountain easily with the funicular, whilst still having all the amenities of a town on your doorstep. It also gives you public transport access to Espace Killy, La Rosiere and the 3V, if you fancy a change. New Gen are a British ski school operating out of Les Arcs, they do lessons in the mornings. Your season pass would also come with some inclusive days for Espace Killy and 3V. Another good location is Tignes - again, extensive skiing, plenty of British ski schools, plenty offering morning classes at all levels (e.g. Snoworks, but there are several others too). I don't know Morzine/Les Gets, but they also offer access to a huge skiing area (PDS) with plenty of accommodation within easy access of the slopes and British ski schools. There have been a few Snowheads who have spent seasons in resorts on similar arrangements to yourself off the top of my head, Harry Flashman spent last season somewhere in PDS, Zero_G has done seasons in Chamonix, bertie bassett did Les Arcs a few years ago, there have definitely been others too. If you do a search on their usernames you will find some of their posts/trip reports.

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+1 for Tignes - I live there in the winter - it will meet all your skiing needs and a season pass is about €1100. But you need to be careful anywhere in the Alps with your internet requirements - depends what you mean by decent - all shared wifis in hostels/chalets tend to disappoint! So you may be stuck with hiring an apt with a dedicated router (Beware those shown as available to the owners of the apts - they tend to be useless as well).

But for a decent hostel style accom - look at The Lavachet Lodge - you will find other people doing what you propose.

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Whole-season 2015/16 suggestions

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