 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Anyone hear r4 on ski apps? Views?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 9-03-14 12:45; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I did and I have to say I agree with the view that it is making people try to ski faster. When we were away in February there was a family with it on their phones and they were boasting of the speeds they achieved straight lining blacks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
stevew, agree
There's all the noise about helmets on here but this is a genuine issue.
The app company made a statement (I paraphrase but accurately I hope) that 'people enjoy using the app - there have been no incidents attributable to use of the app...' which is simply untrue. On SH there was a stand out incident of a death where the friends of the person killed said that he had been racing against the clock using an app - so at least one apparent case of which SH' knows.
And I have heard many people say that they are using them and either boasting of, or lapsing inadvertently into, increasing speeds to see how fast they can go, and how much faster they can go than others in the family or friendship group.
Speeds are going up. We need data (cf Mike Langram) but the act of collecting data seems to be one factor pushing the speeds up....
Having recently been hit from behind by a skier going too fast and with inadequate control I feel that this is one more factor elevating the risks to normal, competent skiers.
SH can be one means of getting some more data together - what are your experiences - even if based on eavesdropping.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 9-03-14 12:57; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Agreed. I heard the show and know people with these apps monitor speeds as I saw at a trip recently.
I am, and encouraging my boys to as well, spending more time on chopped up and moguled snow both on piste and just off the edges. This is a conscious decision to avoid the speed demons.
We ski quickly but having had people zoom past on the edge of control or out of it and falling I have wondered what they are racing against. This has always been true but I am a much better skier now so my speeds are (sometimes but always when in control) higher and yet there are still many who are faster still.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I think it's relatively simple if you're using an app to clock max speeds and compete with friends on a public piste you're a tw*t. No one who is a really fast or skilled skier uses such gimickry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
AndrewBailey, that's a very interesting development - I did exactly this throughout christmas to half term this year, to keep my two away from the straight-liners on piste. Skiing in Crans Montana has been pretty immune from all this until this year (previous slogan 'Old skiers never die, they just ski in Crans Montana...') and suddenly we were all conscious of a rise in mad skiers of the kind we have seldom seen here before. I don't attribute this solely to apps, but it is interesting that a number of us suddenly felt that something unusual was going on.
Suddenly, off piste and 'just off piste' feels a lot safer - and consciously directing my two small ones onto chopped and off piste seems like a prudent move.
SH's discussed snow patrols recently - they too are beginning to seem less like an infringement of liberty and more like a good idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The same seems to be happening with cycling as a result of Strada. When I look at the speeds some people are doing in towns on roads and on cycle paths (shared with pedestrians), etc it makes me shudder.
I do sometimes take a GPS out skiing with me but I don't ski any faster as a result. I usually end up scrubbing speed when I feel uncomfortable with the speed I'm travelling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Section on Ski Apps starts at 26.30
One guy at 31 minutes claimed 124 km/hr 
Sobering: Xavier Cousseau (world speed record on monoski) reminds us that the crash test for cars is at 40mph (64km/hr), and it usually destroys the car.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I have heard otherwise mature adults in their 50s and 60s gleefully bragging about the speeds shown by their apps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Peterkct wrote: |
| I have heard otherwise mature adults in their 50s and 60s gleefully bragging about the speeds shown by their apps. |
ergo tw@ts
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I could be interested in how much vertical I'd skied but am not worried about how fast I'd skied. Far more intersted in have id skied it better than last year. tSadly I know to my cost skiing fast and on the edge of control means broken bones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I think there have always been reckless twits on skis, typically skiers with 4-6 weeks under their belts, just good enough to ski fast out of control. I should know I was one them many moons ago. Also remember occasionally using a good old fashioned watch to time a run or just setting off together with my mates for a last one down is a ****. I've had a quick go with GPS apps to see what my speed is, surprising how fast it is (though no idea of accuracy) , which probably got me more worried than pushing me further into more speed. Are skiers faster today compared to pre-"carving skis" days? Isn't straight line speed more tricky on shaped skis? I regularly take myself and my little on off the side of the piste as it seems less dangerous being out of reach of the speed merchants and more fun. Not listened to the broadcast (I'll try to) but is there any hard facts behind this story?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We use a Garmin gps running watch when we ride. However it's switched on on the first lift dropped in a pack and normally forgotten about until the 2nd après ski beer.
For us we use it more as a reminder as to where we were at what time and it helps us place memorable pistes or pictures we've taken.
I wonder what place the go-pro has in this as well, in terms of people trying to tie app data to the video they've snapped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I did once do speed traps with a GPS down a totally empty and relatively gentle run on boards. We had spotters on the rollers to slow the GPS "holder" if necessary. It was still scary, I wouldn't want to be doing it where there was anyone else around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| I think it's relatively simple if you're using an app to clock max speeds and compete with friends on a public piste you're a tw*t. No one who is a really fast or skilled skier uses such gimickry. |
I've never used one of these apps, but that's a ridiculously snobbish attitude that makes you look like the foolish one. There are plenty of deserted places on public pistes where a speeding skier endangers no-one but themself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
There are plenty of deserted places on public pistes
|
they might look deserted to the next corner or roller.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
pam w, I used ski tracks for the first time last week in Canada. I was interested in my speed and whether I went faster as the week went on..I did slightly. .but I was always in control. The pistes where I was skiing fast. .for me. ..were those where you had total visibility for several hundred yards ahead and were wide enough to account for anyone joining from the trees. There was no one on the pistes at all. Wouldn't like to go as fast on the busy European pistes though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I had people at work over christmas talking about skitracks and all they cared about was how fast they had logged.
You hear it in the gondolas as well.
I think they are much more dangerous than the helmet debate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
There are plenty of deserted places on public pistes
|
they might look deserted to the next corner or roller. |
Realistically, there are a large number of pistes where you can clearly see far beyond any stopping distance, forced or unforced. In those circumstances, skiing fast is a matter of personal risk appetite (I'm personally a wimp when it comes to speed) and moralising attitudes from old hacks are pretty tedious stuff.
Skiing fast anywhere that's crowded or has incomplete visibility is obviously a very different matter, though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
emwmarine, yes...that's my experience....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| waynos wrote: |
| but is there any hard facts behind this story? |
I don't think so but plenty of anecdotes here about being hit from behind by fast out of control skiers. As I have been. Also the account by the doctor in the piece about asking casualties whether they were skiing fast and the reply coming back to three significant figures.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And most of the speeds given are bolleaux anyway. Recent 'trials' against a radar gun in Tignes showed Apps over-read by about 30%. I find the easiest way to deal with an overweight bragging clown when banging on about a speed they have achieved is to ask - "What did you do - fall out of the cable car?" 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
There are plenty of deserted places on public pistes
|
they might look deserted to the next corner or roller. |
Realistically, there are a large number of pistes where you can clearly see far beyond any stopping distance, forced or unforced. |
Not many I've come across that are both interesting and devoid of people so I stand by my comment. When we did it it took 5 spotters to have a decent length run. If everyone using ski tracks to brag is doing the same fairynuff but I somehow doubt they are. By definition when you're at your personal max things can be pretty difficult to shut down.[/quote]
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
fatbob, I guess my growing worry is that this is only just beginning. I would like to know the proportion of people now using such apps - and that data is essentially unknown until a decent survey is done. Just a small increase in people increasing their speed as a result of using the apps could increase risk re collision to the wider population. On person hammering down a piste - with even relatively low numbers of other skiers - is a kind of random accident waiting to happen. Who gets hit is a sort of quantum prediction - someone's highly likely to be hit but it's difficult to predict who.
Sure I know some people (two of quite a large total group of friends) who use ski tracks for charting vertical and number of runs rather than speed but they are in their 40s and highly seasoned skiers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I use skitracks mainly to monitor where Ive been, distance etc etc. The speed isnt that relevant to me but I know it will be to others who WILL try go faster and faster without the skill or ability to match. Yes I have an aim to beat my recorded 49mph, but there will be a time and a placeto do it.
We have the same discussion on a mountain bike forum I use. A lot of us use Strava to map our routes, and you can link up with others. There are "timed" segments that MTBers create and every time you pass through that segment you are added to the list, this has started to create competition between people, some without the ability to be safe. It is also coming common place for a lunatic MTBer to come flying up behind you shouting "STRAVA", meaning, "get out of my way Im trying to get the fastest time on this segment"
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
No problem with logging routes or even Strava-ing road sections ( preferably flat or up hilll) but Stravaing mtn bike downhills is the same problem with added peds etc thrown in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
In this amazing film - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=109361#2498697 - one of the rescue medics opines that on-piste injuries are getting ever more serious, mainly because more people are enabled to ski fast on the piste, by virtue both of excessive piste preparation and also of modern equipment which enables poor skiers still to ski fast.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
fatbob, Thornyhill, Pedantica, ....but thornyhill this misses the point a bit...yes we have had speedos in cars and on bikes for the past few decades but the problem with these apps is that they have a top speed recording function and a speed measurement system which did not until recently exist. And this appears (no well-generated evidence yet) to be effecting a culture change which results in a larger number of people skiing faster and pushing the envelope in an irresponsible way. Of course holiday skiers have always included a population of people who ski fast and badly. But the question is whether these apps are increasing the proportion of people in that category. My anecdotal experience is yes...and the R4 programme cited some evidence that this is indeed the case.
A few posts above I mentioned the previous discussion on Sh regarding a greater number of on piste patrols who might play a role in 'flagging' wild skiers - I hate such a notion on the hill but do wonder they are needed as a response to increased speeds
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Brave of Ms Kirby to demonstrate her skiing skills to such a wide audience!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Refuse to use Strava since it's aimed fair and square at racing on roads, paths and pistes, with the makers hiding behind a disclaimer (that was put there retrospectively because a death did occur). Will also happily report any downhill segment on open path or open piste. The Strava evangelists say it's not racing. I say it is. If there's a leader board of fastest times, it's racing.
Logging the day's activity is fine imho. Logging uphill timed segments is fine (although technically racing on the streets is not permitted). Logging downhill MTB or Skiing is fine on a course purposefully set aside for that is fine.
Yesterday's stats... 51.2km/h on bike computer, 35km/h c/o app on the phone. Which one is right? And prats brag about their Strava times and iPhone apps being accurate? Have also managed Mach 1.2 c/o GPS  Uphill.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| I think it's relatively simple if you're using an app to clock max speeds and compete with friends on a public piste you're a tw*t. No one who is a really fast or skilled skier uses such gimickry. |
This /\
I dont even know anyone who has used the speed run piste in chamonix, let alone an app!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Occasionally, I agree with stan(of the Teutonic lack of humour set)ton who would just say ƃuᴉɯooɹƃ lɐʇnɹq ǝɥʇ doʇs. That and large spikes, painted white, sticking out of the snow and pointing uphill.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26449404
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 10-03-14 10:39; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Of course, if you have such an app and have an accident, and are nabbed, the cops (and your injuree's insurers) have a nice record of your speed.
I much prefer people to be left alone, but it would not surprise me if eventually list passes contained some GPS technology that shows where you are and at what speeds you're travelling at all times. Then they can just switch your pass off from somewhere central if you get out of order.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Thornyhill wrote: |
| I have a device in my car which tells me how fast I am going. Doesn't make me drive like a twat. |
Doing the "ton" has been an objective of quite a few drivers I've known.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I love ski tracks - especially looking back at the map and seeing where I have been and km skied.
I also quite like the speed but wouldn't be too bothered if it wasn't there. It is interesting as a retrospective thing than a 'lets try and go fast' thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
<shrug> I don't really care if the overweight tourist coming down behind me is doing 30km/h or 60, even less if they believe their doppler-assisted GPS when it tells them they're breaking the world record ... I don't want to be hit by them at any speed, so I don't put myself in that place.
As a snowboarder who rides race boards I'd welcome any shift away from skate-style tricks to speed.
If you're really concerned, then how about:
(1) Ride somewhere like Whistler where they have speed cops
(2) Ride harder slopes. You rarely see anyone incompetent ripping a steep bump field.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I have ski tracks but don't really look at the speeds, partly because I don't think it is very accurate - last trip it said 60 km/h one day then 86 km/h the next, when as far as I could tell there was no material difference in either the conditions or my skiing. You'd think it should be pretty obvious if you were hitting speeds 50% greater than the day before.
But then again I've never been particularly bothered about skiing as fast as possible anyway, I like the feeling of putting together a really smooth flowing run much more than just straightlining down the slope to try and get past 100km/h or whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
by virtue both of excessive piste preparation and also of modern equipment which enables poor skiers still to ski fast.
|
I agree. Its not the apps or the helmets or even the skis, its the groomed slopes, bulldozed pistes and fast, high capacity chairlifts.
I admit to skiing far too fast, particularly on one day out with our Chalet ski host, although telemark bindings prevented me from skiing even less responsibly 
I wonder, is it too late now to go back to ungroomed runs in some areas ie. speed humps on the approach to crossovers or would that just create even more serious accidents ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
