 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Common Problem unfortunately......over the years I've done 4 crevasse rescues - never anyone I was skiing with, always someone form a group ahead of us. Really scary watching it happen in front of me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Know the guy who went in. Saw a photo he took of himself in it... paper white. Big lesson in not going over a lip blind on a glacier, a mistake I don't think he'll make twice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wow, glad the guy involved was okay!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Saw a mate ski straight down massive crevasse on Grande Montets a few years ago, landed on his back on a snow bridge and was plucked out by helicopter and taken straight to hospital, so lucky. 3 days in hospital and severely concussed and very shaken. 2 days later on Vallees Blanche saw a couple of boarders who'd lost a mate down a crevasse, he was at the back and they had no clue which he'd gone down.......no guide and they were novices, crazy.........don't know if he survived, the 2 guys were in total shock, very scary indeed.
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| enfilade wrote: |
| Also: trees. |
That's not really "off piste". Give a different meaning to "On 2 Off". 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 3-03-14 23:30; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
| enfilade wrote: |
| Also: trees. |
That's not really "off piste". Give a different meaning to "On 2 Off". |
Opps, didn't realise this thread was in off piste. I'm claiming it on a technicality though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Idris, did all four survive?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Indeed a sobering video but it would have been more helpful to show the footage of their attempted rescue and the successful rescue by the guide.
It seems obvious that with hindsight he should have skied much more cautiously but as they had some kit it would be interesting to see the mistakes they made with it compared with an experienced guide. There are plenty of videos of "textbook" crevice rescues but I'd be very interested to see the real thing
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I fell down a damn hole on top of a ridge. There must have been a rock crevasse covered over with snow. I ended up with my head lower than my mates boots, what stopped me going all the way down was my skis getting stuck in the branches of a pine tree growing from the rock face. Took a while to get out, I had to unclip my skis and be hauled out by ski poles. Couldn't see the bottom so who knows how deep it was.
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You know it makes sense.
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ScarpaTheAvalanchePoodle, I'm staying on piste when I next ski with you, Mr Poodle. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poodles have more lives than any mere cat 
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Poster: A snowHead
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ScarpaTheAvalanchePoodle, possibly, but I'm not a poodle or a cat, merely a pixie with only one life.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| Idris, did all four survive? |
Yes, relatively unscathed.
First
Petit Envers - probably 500 meters downhill from the the video - Tracks in front of us leading over an edge, shouting coming from the crevasse.
Made a ski anchor, abseiled into the crevasse and found an annoying undamaged relatively large skier, complaining that his powder turns (he had skied the only untracked bit) had caused him to end up here. I put purusiks on my rope clipped him into them and after a short demonstration mad him climb back out - leaving me with only slings to climb the rope with - I bought DMM ropemen that evening - don't want to climb an icy rope on improvised prussiks ever again.
Seccond
Petit Envers again - first big rollover where there is always a crevasse - large Swedish holiday group (not to be confused with skibums) with a "guide" friend - thinking they were on the Vallee Blanche. It was steep and they were trying to sideslip over the crevasse with obvious results. 2 skiers downslope -1 ski each.
One girl in the slot. They already had a rope down to her, but as they were upslope and away from the edge it served only as a marker line.
Ski anchor, but this time due loping nature of the crevasse I down climbed in - very rotten snow, punging both axe shafts into the side, not pick, boots going into my ankles with each kick. Tied the girl to my rope, retrived her skis and the 2 others. Now with 5 people downslope of the crevasee (go my friends over it without hassle) I pushed while they pulled, no pulleys or pruskiks necessary.
Third (and scariest for me)
Rognon glacier on the Grand Montets, half way down, over to the right. Skiing without any rescue gear as you do on the GM, showing my friends how to pick a relatively safe line. Snowboarder comes running towards us waving his arms and screaming. His buddie had sideslipped across a crack in the snow and disappeared.
He was only a little way into a very narrow crevasse, stopped when his board was wider than the crevasse, outstretched hands about 5-6feet below the lip.
2 fiends held my legs and lowered me in to get hold of his hands and dragged him out. Problem, he'd unstrapped and left his board on there. I climbed (chimney technique) down the crevasse and retrieved the board, insisted that they traverse (not descend)till they hit the piste, they were from Wisconsin
Fourth
Col du Midi, heading for Mont Blanc du Tacul - two people in front of us, then there was one, and he was screaming, gone about 15m down, he hand been keeping to the "White bits" as they weren't so slippery.
Cut a T slot for an axe, backed it up with an ice screw. Used the victim's partners new rope, Took 3 goes to get a carabiner onto the guy. He was quite big (14st). 2 DMM ropemen + Petzl Pulleys in a classic Z arrangement. With 3 of us it took 5 seconds per 3m pull and 5 seconds to reset (try doing that with classic prusiks), even with the pulleys it was a tough job. told the victim to ditch or at least take off his and pack and skis he refused, pulled harder. Gave the two of them a good shouting at when we got him out - continued our climb.
For glacier travel (minimum)I now carry 30 8mm rope, harness, 2 120cm slings, 4 normal screwgate crabs, a Petzl mini traxion, a DMM ropeman and a DMM revolver + string prusiks......I hope never to have to use them in anger again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Idris, If I ever go off piste in Chamonix I'd like you to recommend a suitable guide! That is a most sobering summary of the risks involved in glacier skiing.
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Idris, wow! You must have been tempted to leave the first guy down the crevasse. And as for climbing back in to retrieve the snowboard - you are definitely a hero.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Idris, interesting reading. Not wanting to second guess your decision making here but curious as to why you chose to solve the problems yourself rather than, say, ringing the PGHM and letting them deal with it. Only having dealt with this in theory, never in practice, numbers one and three especially seem rather daunting.
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Idris, chapeau
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As a caver I was never tempted by prusik knots and always carry some hardware.
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morningglory, I don't reckon you want Idris to recommend a guide - you just want to have Idris with you
Scary stories.
Pity he aint around in La Plagne.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| Idris, interesting reading. Not wanting to second guess your decision making here but curious as to why you chose to solve the problems yourself rather than, say, ringing the PGHM and letting them deal with it. Only having dealt with this in theory, never in practice, numbers one and three especially seem rather daunting. |
Number one was early in my time in Cham...no mobile, no reception there either.
Two was far quicker to solve than call for help.
Three was a thick cloud day, PGHM would have to respond on the ground and direction finding would have been hard.
Four we called, they were busy, they would have come if necessary, but we said we'd sort it - think there were 15+ crevasse rescues that day!
Most of the time PGHM have a response time of <25 min anywhere in the Chamonix valley, but if you call them on a sunny weekend in April if you are not about to die, they will take a while, just the shear number of people getting themselves into bother.
Once had a friend blow his ACL skiing the lower Nantillions glacier, 2 out of 3 of the party were guides, the valley was mad busy PGHM's response (and quite rightly in my mind) was call us back if it's going dark and you haven't got yourselves off the mountain yet!
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I think the party in the original video tried calling the PGMH for a helicopter only to be told it was busy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Most of the time PGHM have a response time of <25 min anywhere in the Chamonix valley, but if you call them on a sunny weekend in April if you are not about to die, they will take a while, just the shear number of people getting themselves into bother.
Once had a friend blow his ACL skiing the lower Nantillions glacier, 2 out of 3 of the party were guides, the valley was mad busy PGHM's response (and quite rightly in my mind) was call us back if it's going dark and you haven't got yourselves off the mountain yet!
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I guess a clear message is that if you off into wild territory you need a degree of self-sufficiency and can't rely on whistling up a chopper on your mobile.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Idris,
Wow!
I think in case 3 I would have told them where they could stick their board!
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| Idris wrote: |
| With 3 of us it took 5 seconds per 3m pull and 5 seconds to reset (try doing that with classic prusiks), even with the pulleys it was a tough job. told the victim to ditch or at least take off his and pack and skis he refused, . |
I think I'd have said "Bye then, have a nice time down your hole".
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You know it makes sense.
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OwenM, yes, me too - Idris is obviously made of sterner stuff, and more tolerant.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Idris, respect.
You've deservedly racked up some good karma.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wow. Much, much respect.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
He was quite big (14st). 2 DMM ropemen + Petzl Pulleys in a classic Z arrangement. With 3 of us it took 5 seconds per 3m pull and 5 seconds to reset (try doing that with classic prusiks), even with the pulleys it was a tough job.
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Guess I'll stick to marked pistes on glaciers from now on 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| altis wrote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Lachenal
Somewhere I've seen a photo of his last tracks but I can't find it online. A sad end to an incredible life. |
Or Serge Santi
http://pistehors.com/the-death-of-a-guide-23265465.htm
don't read if you are claustrophobic, or have any thoughts of glacier skiing
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Don't forget the tree wells.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ah. I was hoping for a happy ending.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| londonbg wrote: |
| Ah. I was hoping for a happy ending. |
that will be in the Hollywood film version, Captain Marvel will fly in and melt the ice with his laser vision
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Idris, very nice work.
Interesting to read your comment about using ropemans instead of prussiks, the lads at Plas Y Brenin still favour the prussiks.
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davidof, OMG that is awful, but a nicely and sympathetically written piece.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Chapeau to Idris.
Mountaineering ethics would say you always take responsibility for a rescue if you have the capabilities. Certainly I'd never be happy leaving someone down a hole and if I felt I could get them out myself and get on with my day rather than wait for a helicopter I'd be inclined to do that.
On 3, it must have been a bit annoying that he couldnt pass up the snowboard and also that he couldn't chimney out in snowboard boots but asked you to chimney in and out in ski/AT boots!
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Good thread. Being on my first season in Chamonix, crevasses are a relatively new danger to me and my ski buddies. While we're taking all the precautions we can, glacier skiing is never going to be too safe.
As for crevasse rescues - sack using prussiks... In practice, I've used prussiks vs micro-traxion/tibloc/pulley for a z-pulley system and the difference was remarkable
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