 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello All
I am currently in despute with Ski Total after a number of issues with Them over a weeks holiday.
Firstly there rep sold some of the group a private ski instructor and we was told to meet the instructor somewhere different to where they was.
we was not told the colour of the uniform of the ski instructor and after it appeard to be resolved they have now turnd around at the end of the week and told us we need to pay a furthur 300 euros or risked been refused transport and flight.
where do i stand with the complete lack of information given from the reps.
As well as the reps changing there mind to what they told us from the begining of the week.
Has anyone else experianced such issues??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd get in touch with Total in the UK. I am sure they will be happy to help. Assume the 300 euros is the cost of the instructor?
A TO doesn't have much choice about bringing home customers who have prebooked travel, they have various obligations that would be very difficult for them to avoid, even if they owed them money.
I can't imagine a TO getting into a physical confrontation with a customer (or group of customers) who force their way onto a coach transfer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, ish. When I stayed in a Ski Total chalet in Tignes in December, a couple in the chalet had booked (and paid up for) a morning's private lesson through the Rep. When they turned up for the lesson, they found that the booking had actually been made for the afternoon instead, although no-one had told them this. Not a problem, as it just meant coming back later to do the lesson, but as they pointed out if it had been the other way round and they'd turned up for an afternoon's lesson that had been wrongly booked for the morning instead, they would have lost their money.
I didn't get the impression the reps and staff were that with it (although perhaps they had the excuse of it being the first week of the season). The rep on the transfer coach to the resort didn't make herself that popular by allowing a loo stop for the bus driver (at his insistence), but then telling the passengers that they couldn't also get off for a break as there wasn't time (ie. not time for her to get back to the resort for an afternoon's boarding...). A lot of folk rebelled and got off anyway; cue chaos. The driver had to tell the rep to do a headcount when everyone eventually got back on . 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
A lot of folk rebelled and got off anyway
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good for them. A TO rep once told a coach load of us to stay seated after the bus had done a 180 skid with a huge chunk of ice under its wheels and ended up across the (narrow, winding) road with its stern hanging over an unguarded ravine (this was in Serbia; the roads weren't great). The vehicle was a sitting target for the next transfer coach down the road so I stood up and said "No, we should get off, starting with the kids sitting in the back". Everyone agreed so we got everyone off the bus and off the road and a couple of us went up and down the road to flag down approaching traffic, while the driver had several attempts at getting the bus back on the road - which took a while as the back half of the vehicle was off the road, in quite deep snow.  The rep was clueless and didn't demur.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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€300 is an expensive lesson, no? e.g. 2 hrs Chamonix ESF = €134
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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boogwa, I guarantee you, no way will you be refused transport home.
But if they try, video it on your phone and youtube it
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SkiTotal will be along shortly to give 'their version of the truth'
(I hope)
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red 27, yep, there is ALWAYS another side.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
2 hrs Chamonix ESF = €134
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2 hours ESF Les Saisies, €68 - 92 depending on season. 
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They won't refuse you travel home - the last thing they want is you still in resort when next weeks guests arrive.
Don't wreck your holiday! Ask the reps in resort to provide you with a written record of what they have told you and on what days - even if you have issues with their version of it it get a copy of this and then write to their head office when you get home to deal with the issue.
Explain that you'll be happy to speak to an area/country manager about the issue by phone or e-mail but thhat you won't deal with it with the reps in resort - they'll be glad to pass it on!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have heard of someone who was refused transfer etc, but this was someone in L2A who had been violent to other guests on more than one occasion. This sounds wrong on the face of it, but we do need more info I think.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When you book a lesson through a TO they act as an agent and your contract is with the ski school. It depends on who you booked with, their terms and conditions and then their relationship with the TO staff locally but in my experience the ESF will not refund unless under extreme circumstances which probably isn't covered by being in the wrong place. Get the resort manager involved and if that doesn't work raise your complaint direct with the UK office. TOs in general don't try to screw you over because it isn't great publicity for anyone but you haven't given enough detail to make it clear what happened in resort so rather hard to say more than this...
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| red 27, yep, there is ALWAYS another side. |
NOT on a Mobius Strip
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You know it makes sense.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| red 27, yep, there is ALWAYS another side. |
NOT on a Mobius Strip |
Or toast.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
A TO rep once told a coach load of us to stay seated after the bus had done a 180 skid with a huge chunk of ice under its wheels and ended up across the (narrow, winding) road with its stern hanging over an unguarded ravine (this was in Serbia; the roads weren't great). The vehicle was a sitting target for the next transfer coach down the road so I stood up and said "No, we should get off, starting with the kids sitting in the back". Everyone agreed so we got everyone off the bus and off the road and a couple of us went up and down the road to flag down approaching traffic, while the driver had several attempts at getting the bus back on the road - which took a while as the back half of the vehicle was off the road, in quite deep snow. The rep was clueless and didn't demur. |
What you obviously needed was a rep with a Michael Caine accent saying, "Hang on lads, I've got a great idea."
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Poster: A snowHead
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We booked ski hire for the kids through Zenith. On our arrival the Zenith rep gave us a ticket for our booked equipment and told us that we needed to go to the Intersport shop, just turn right out of the accommodation and it was on the right hand side. Early Sunday morning we find the shop and the new guy starts kitting up the kids...just as we were sorted the shop owner came in and said it wasnt her Intersport shop - apparently there were something like four on the same street. We dump all the new kit and go off to find the right shop. When you are trying to get kids to a new ski school for 9am and get them kitted out before its pretty stressful. I have no complaints against Zenith other than this and I didnt ever raise this as a complaint but it does go to show that reps dont necessarily give out the most accurate of information.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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thecramps, are you suggesting that toast hasn't got two sides?
Reps and punters are nearly always joint and several when it comes to blame. It's exhausted drunk people trying to reason. Ain't gonna work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, toast only has the side it lands on. It's a rule right? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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boogwa, I'm finding you post really hard to get my head around. You say:
| Quote: |
| they have now turnd around at the end of the week and told us we need to pay a furthur 300 euros or risked been refused transport and flight. |
What have the reps said the 300euros is to cover? As others have alluded to, 300euros seems more than expensive for a private lesson.
Also, what do you mean by:
| Quote: |
| As well as the reps changing there mind to what they told us from the begining of the week. |
People may be able to help you a bit more if we understand a bit more about this. Is it just one issue, or are you saying you've had more than one issue?
SM.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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thecramps, listen, I have survived decades of dropping buttered toast and "the rule" you are investing everything in isn't actually true. I think it's roughly 50:50. For sure, Marmite changes everything.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller, pet ownership has much more of an effect, particularly when they are malting.
And what do you mean "marmite". Bovril in our house. Far superior aero dynamics.
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In high season in Courchevel for a full morning (9:30-13:30) you are looking at €340 with ESF so depends on the resort and what sort of private lesson it was. Swadster, is bang on by the way. The ski school will want paying no matter who made the mistake as they will need to pay the instructor who turned up for the lesson.
When I worked as a rep we had to tell guests who didn't pay for something that they wouldn't be allowed to board at the airport but it would have been pretty difficult to enforce it tbh and rules for TOs got a lot stricter since then.
Obviously I have no idea who is at fault in this situation but I agree that the OP should ask to speak to someone senior, at least to the resort manager who deals with the ski school in resort. Hopefully you can come to some sort of an agreement.
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Sorry all Let me be more clear on the Weeks goings on.
Sunday night the Group booked a private tutor for 3 hours for 3 days this was to teach the 7 snow virgins.
all experiance and in experianced skiers/boarders 19 in total traveled to the place we where to meet the ski instructor.
Only representatives from a ski school dressed in blue where visable we spoke to there representative who said we hadnt booked and then they rang around for 10 minutes.
while two of the group where trying to get answers from Ski total rep whos response was they would ring any of us as we had english mobile numbers. (one guest was still in the chalet trying to help us make contact). at around 9.30 after we had been at the lift since 8.45 the ski school said we have now got you an instructor and will take you. all seemd fine.
untill we later found out the instructor in which the group was booked with where meant to be in green. (19 pairs of eyes saw no one in green).
The resort rep on the Evening explain the Blue ski school should not have taken us and that we will now have 3 days with green ski school and not to worry about the 1st lesson.
all was fine for the week until the evening of the last day when the resort rep now said we have a further 300euros to pay for the mess up on the first day. we refused to pay on the evening and that we would like to deal with the resort manager who would either speak to us on the phone which i wasnt willing to do or that the earliest he could meet us was 8am 50 minuted before we was due to depart.
we express our view explaind the rep had said it wasnt our fult we had the extra lesson and that we didnt have anything to pay at the begining of the week. to she she denied an after explaining some of the comments she had told the group early in the week decided to stay very quiet. with a number of worried guest we where forced to pay as they where worried about not been able to travel. i have emaild Ski total in the UK forwarded them the minutes from the meeting we had with the resort manager what our view was. and listed a number of other problems we had.
including a theft from our chalet.
and other chalet workers been able to go through the chalet who where not meant to have keys.
i await a responce and hope it is very soon
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not ESF we are ski school RED not blue or green
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boogwa, can you write in your first language and then hit google translate?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Perhaps a lesson to learn from this episode is to get it in writing before paying for (or committing to pay for) any services you book, be it directly or indirectly through a rep?
I tend to book directly with the ski school, but given the sums of money involved there's no way I'd do this without also getting a receipt including details of times, meeting places etc. It also helps to know which ski school you're actually booked with 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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boogwa, Ski Total (in my very limited experience) never quite seem to match up good staff, at a good resort, in some pretty good accommodation.
Hence, only half decent Resort Rep job done, dodgy food preparation done by underskilled chalet staff, that completely damns what should be a pretty decent chalet.
Best of luck in getting a positive outcome. 
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You know it makes sense.
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skimastaaah, I'd agree, and it's odd. Great properties, high prices, but some very variable staff....that said a few friends of mine swear by them, luck of the draw who you get I guess.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A few questions...
| boogwa wrote: |
Sorry all Let me be more clear on the Weeks goings on.
Sunday night the Group booked a private tutor for 3 hours for 3 days this was to teach the 7 snow virgins.
all experiance and in experianced skiers/boarders 19 in total traveled to the place we where to meet the ski instructor.
Only representatives from a ski school dressed in blue where visable we spoke to there representative who said we hadnt booked and then they rang around for 10 minutes.
while two of the group where trying to get answers from Ski total rep whos response was they would ring any of us as we had english mobile numbers. (one guest was still in the chalet trying to help us make contact). at around 9.30 after we had been at the lift since 8.45 the ski school said we have now got you an instructor and will take you. all seemd fine.
untill we later found out the instructor in which the group was booked with where meant to be in green. (19 pairs of eyes saw no one in green). |
Given all of the above, did any of the 7 people booked on ski school know the name of the school they were supposed to be having lessons with? And, was the meeting point the correct meeting point for the last 3 days that they did get on, or did they have to go to a different meeting point?
| boogwa wrote: |
| The resort rep on the Evening explain the Blue ski school should not have taken us and that we will now have 3 days with green ski school and not to worry about the 1st lesson. |
What exactly do you mean the rep said not to worry about the first lesson? Who did she say would pay for this lesson? And given that you then booked on for a further 3 days (per the original booking) did anyone in the group comment that they were having 4 days instruction instead of 3? In short, who did you think was paying for this first day that you were told not to worry about?
| boogwa wrote: |
all was fine for the week until the evening of the last day when the resort rep now said we have a further 300euros to pay for the mess up on the first day. we refused to pay on the evening and that we would like to deal with the resort manager who would either speak to us on the phone which i wasnt willing to do or that the earliest he could meet us was 8am 50 minuted before we was due to depart.
we express our view explaind the rep had said it wasnt our fult we had the extra lesson and that we didnt have anything to pay at the begining of the week. to she she denied an after explaining some of the comments she had told the group early in the week decided to stay very quiet. with a number of worried guest we where forced to pay as they where worried about not been able to travel. i have emaild Ski total in the UK forwarded them the minutes from the meeting we had with the resort manager what our view was. and listed a number of other problems we had.
including a theft from our chalet.
and other chalet workers been able to go through the chalet who where not meant to have keys.
i await a responce and hope it is very soon |
Again, there seem to be some contradictions here.
What was the rep's final story; what did she suggest she told you earlier in the week about the first day of lessons? The whole "she said not to worry about it" comment? Who did she tell you would be paying for those?
Your problems don't stem from the RM's conversation, it's the's rep's initial conversation you need to clarify. How was this first day of lessons ever going to be free? And given they your group got most of the first day in anyway, why then book another 3 days, making a total of 4 days? Why not just stick to the original plan and just book another 2 days, making 3 in total?
Confusing stuff so far, really.
Edit: I don't mean that to sound too accusatory, just helping to get to the bottom of things. At the moment it sounds like a total c*ck up from all involved.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 18-02-14 19:13; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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peanuthead, ouch 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I agree nothing in this world is free.
The resort reps explanation on the first day was. (ski school alberg should not accepted your booking it is there fault and you will not pay them)
For the error in going not been told correctly where to be we where then told that ski school classic (green) would then give us three days.
It was brought up throughout the week with the instructor and there then carried on to take them for an extra day.
We mentiond how good Ski school alberg (blue) had been and that it was unfair for ski total to completly disregard them and Say it was there Fault.
We also complained about the rep who sold them the ski lessons. to which we was told forget about Then you never have to see her again just get on with it. To which our chalet rep tried to deny but clearly understood that is what was said.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boogwa wrote: |
I agree nothing in this world is free.
The resort reps explanation on the first day was. (ski school alberg should not accepted your booking it is there fault and you will not pay them)
For the error in going not been told correctly where to be we where then told that ski school classic (green) would then give us three days.
It was brought up throughout the week with the instructor and there then carried on to take them for an extra day.
We mentiond how good Ski school alberg (blue) had been and that it was unfair for ski total to completly disregard them and Say it was there Fault.
We also complained about the rep who sold them the ski lessons. to which we was told forget about Then you never have to see her again just get on with it. To which our chalet rep tried to deny but clearly understood that is what was said. |
Right, I can hardly understand any of that. If your verbal communication is as bad as your written, then I have some sympathy for the TO staff.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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peanuthead, No, changed my mind. Fair comment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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May i Say my verbal Communication far outways my ability to communicate in writing.
Ski Total Staff how ever where unable to Comunicate with Two vets, A high end Pub Manager, and an accountant to say the least.
If Instructions where given from the Staff you can be assured they where followed correctly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| boogwa wrote: |
I agree nothing in this world is free.
The resort reps explanation on the first day was. (ski school alberg should not accepted your booking it is there fault and you will not pay them)
For the error in going not been told correctly where to be we where then told that ski school classic (green) would then give us three days.
It was brought up throughout the week with the instructor and there then carried on to take them for an extra day.
We mentiond how good Ski school alberg (blue) had been and that it was unfair for ski total to completly disregard them and Say it was there Fault.
We also complained about the rep who sold them the ski lessons. to which we was told forget about Then you never have to see her again just get on with it. To which our chalet rep tried to deny but clearly understood that is what was said. |
So; you originally booked with "Ski School Classic", went with "Ski School Arlberg" for day one, then Ski School Classic for another 3 days.
You need to clarify (and sort out with Ski Total) the following:
Was the meeting point you went to on day one the correct meeting point for Ski School Classic? Or was it a different meeting point for subsequent days?
Did you/the group know that the ski school was called Ski School Classic? If not, why not?
Do you have any documentation from Ski Total showing what they booked you on?
Did Ski Total ever say who would pay for Ski School Arlberg? Not just "don't worry about it", did they say who would pay for it? You may not understand this fully but the tour operator and the ski school are two completely different entities.
And, did no-one in your group queried that they had gotten a day of lessons for free, from a company who had stepped in at the last minute through no fault of their own? What was the arrangement for payment with this company, and who made it?
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and what sort of strange set up means that a ski school is "not allowed" to take a booking? Would the other send the boys round, some dark night?
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pam w, Just what I was thinking, why, when faced with a bunch of punters looking for a private lesson, wouldn't a ski school take their booking if they had an instructor or two with nothing to do that morning?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ski School Arlberg get bookings from Total, so if somebody turns up saying they have lessons booked via a TO, then it's not surprising they accept it. Sounds like there are issues on both sides here, not just the rep and RM, but the guests also.
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| Sitter wrote: |
| Ski School Arlberg get bookings from Total, so if somebody turns up saying they have lessons booked via a TO, then it's not surprising they accept it. Sounds like there are issues on both sides here, not just the rep and RM, but the guests also. |
Actually, it is in my experience, having taken lessons and worked for TOs booking them for other people, you either get a voucher or the ski school/instructor has a list of names they should be taking. At the very least, if names aren't on the list, the ski school would call the TO to clarify it; not just take the guests without any confirmation or suggestion of how payment will be made. That's the unexplained factor so far (or, at least, one of them....)
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FAQ
