"Most Alpine ski schools are a waste of money"!!

A snowHead

In his article in the Daily Mail today, Peter Hardy says,
"....some of Europe's best ski instructors are admitting that most ski schools are a waste of time & money." He also quotes Sally Chapman, who runs her own ski school, as follows,
"Thanks to enormous technological improvements, ski teaching has undergone a revolution in recent years. But stand on any slope and it is shocking to see the number of instructors who simply have not moved with the times."

The article then recommends several ski schools (the much-maligned ESF not among them rolling eyes

).

Should I simply not bother with any ski school but the ones he recommends - surely not, but how can we tell which are not ".. a waste of time & money"? Does this opinion apply only to experienced skiiers, ie can beginners & early imntermediates still benefit from the run-of-the-mill ski school (eg ESF)?

Any thoughts??

Edit: Just tried to find the article online but no luck. Sorry.

A snowHead

I have been taught by ESF from day 1 of skiing, and I think they are great. See my post here

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Red Leon, which ones made the short-list?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I don't feel confident to recommend large ski schools such as ESF because in my opinion there's not a high enough chance of getting a good instructor. That's not to say that there aren't good instructors in ESF schools. For example, I skied with a former trainer of PG's daughter last weekend (he's an ESF instructor) and was very impressed by the feedback he gave. But unless you are going for a private lesson and ask for a specific instructor there's no guarantee you're going to get a good teacher. That's why I'm happy to pay the premium that people like Sally Chapman charge, because with her setup (I've skied with her twice) I'm very confident of getting top quality instruction. Although I've not seen the Daily Mail article, I would agree with Sally's comments based on the range of instructors I see around the slopes.

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slikedges,

List is as follows:

Top Ski, Val D'Isere
Simon Butler Skiing, Megeve
Summit Ski & Snowboard, Zermatt
White Sensations, France & Austria
Inspired to Ski, France

mark_s,

I've only skiied 3 weeks. Tuition for 2 of those were with ESF and I have no complaints.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

I was on a snoworks off piste instruction week last year in Austria. Every other day we had an Austrian ski guide and we asked him about the new ski teaching, aka Snoworks, against what he taught. Refreshingly he acknowleged that the "Old" style was not as appropriate these days, however as he was in the employ of the Austrian ski school he had to teach the Austrian style, which looks nice but not as dynamic as we were being taught.
One of my collogues threw his hands up in dispare after 2 days, commenting that he had spent the last 7 years learning to looking pretty, but had made more progress in the two days with Snoworks than he had for years.

BTW I'm not affiliated with Snoworks, just a happy customer.

Bod

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rob@rar.org.uk,

Immediately prior to the list, Peter Hardy states.."Here's my pick of the best;" so I guess this is the best of the worthwhile schools (in his opinion, of course) rather than an exhaustive list of worthwhile ones.

There's still the question of how to know which schools are any good. Asking on SnowHeads is a good start, I suppose. Puzzled

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Red Leon, thanks, in which case I would add Snoworks, Mountain Masters, Easiski, Ski Supreme, BASS, Skivolution and Alpine Coaching amongst others.

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rob@rar.org.uk,

I was with BASS in Morzine for my first week on snow (all of 3 years ago!) and found the instructor, Jaz, excellent. Having said that, I've no complaints about the ESF in Arc 2000 or Valmeinier (ESF is the only show in town there) but I do wonder what more - or less - I might have learned in smaller groups and with instructors for whom English was less of a burden.

edit: I plan to do one week this season and then a few days at EOSB so maybe easiski will be able to show me how much better I could have been!! Toofy Grin

Don't forget the Warren Smith Ski Academy and New Generation

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

An ideal opportunity to shamelessly plug the Freeride school in Champery, PDS...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

easiski, I would, of course, have mentioned you too but rob@rar.org.uk had already done so Very Happy

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I would add - most of us learnt 'old school' and it hasn't done permanent harm, so if its no school or old school, I'd still go 'old school' - especially for beginners and early intermediates....Better risk the ESf than play 'teach yourself' or 'ask a mate who knows a bit' IMO anyway, you may not learn as fast and as well as could theoretically could, but you'll still learn! aj xx

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'd say easiski is the best value I have come across followed by some of the guys at Vaujany ESF.

You can get some very good instructors through the ESF but, as easiski says, the quality is a bit variable. you have to ask around for someone who is a good technical skier and who speaks good english. Then book a lesson specifically with them

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Thank you, thank you all (bows low to audience!) Blush

ajhainey, I agree that old school is better than helpful friends, but nu skool is better by far!! The problem with old school teaching is that it is all based on physically turning the skis, which is now unnecessary most of the time, and is a really difficulty habit to get out of.

There are lots of good ski schools out there, and lots of good teachers. You just need to do a bit of research and not take the TOs word for it. I think the response you have to an enquiry is the clearest indication of the nature of the school. A friendly and prompt response will show that they're interested in you as a client. If the office have that attitude there's a good chance the instructors will as well. Very Happy

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Just tried to find the article and sinply found the Daily Mail website to be a bit of a disaster. Oh well.

Without reading the copy I don't really like to comment. But...I will anyway. It seems to me to be a sweeping and inaccurate generalisation. In my experience, limited or not, most ski schools are better than nothing. Some are MASSIVELY better than nothing. THe ESF gets bad press but I know that they are endeavouring intensely to become truly excellent. They're a big organisation (loosely speaking) so it'll take time and effort.

There's a whole bunch of really great independents too (Our Easiski amongst them) - so I'm a little disappointed by what seems to be rather a "knocking" article.

Anyone able, willing, etc. to break copyright and pop up a copy?

After all it is free

David Murdoch, I think Sally's just trying to stir up a bit more business. I've heard her quoted on this subject before. She doesn't have Phil Smith's rep to help now!

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ajhainey, Yeah - it's a worry. Especially if he listed only 3 or 4 examples. the implication being that all others were a waste. I rescued a woman today trying to teach her 2 firends how to ski - they couldn't even do a plough and were trying to negotiate higher pistes!!!

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easiski, ah. Makes sense, for her at least.

It's difficult isn't it? Odd how it's only once one can ski tolerably well that one gets a feel for good teachers/coaches!

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David Murdoch, I don't actually think that's true. It's just that most beginners book with the TO and get stuck in these huge classes, so they assume that's the norm. People with a bit of "street smarts" often do book independently and ditto those with experienced friends. Once you've been through the mill you begin to see there are alternatives. Still a shame that Peter Hardy's articles are so negative (not the first one I've read like this). He's not doing anyone any favours IMO.

easiski, Hi Charlotte, I hope you're getting good snow. Maybe I expressed myself wrongly. I think anyone can spot a good instructor once in their presence, but it's not till you and your peers are reasonably experienced that you build up a library of people to use. Unless you post on SnowHeads of course!

You know it makes sense.

David Murdoch, aah

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

David Murdoch, easiski, I think you are both right. I've just organised an independent group of 15 - 17 to ski in ADH in March. They have never done ski school other than group ESF despite several of them having several weeks (5 - 11) experience under their belts because they have always travelled with an all inclusive operator. At the moment they are just assuming that they'll sign up for 6 x2.5 hr lessons with ESF when even with my limited experience I think they'd get as much and more out of a few private lessons. It's not cost - they are all well paid, mid thirties, no kids It's conditioning. That is all they know. I'm sure that if I can change their mindset they'll have a much better learning experience and suddenly realise what it could be like ............wish me luck!

A snowHead

Annie, Good luck. In fact, suggest they register here. You might find some moral support!

Isn't group organisation painful? Once again our committee of six has tied itself in knots over our US trip. Will we never learn?

A snowHead

If you want lessons in LDA, get Easiski, no question...!!!

able to spot small faults at 100 paces and more... as all of us on the PSB can testify... Laughing

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Agree with all of that - perhaps marginally off-topic, but I think a lesson in a group of 4 or less brings big benefits - I try to have a couple of hours with easiski when I'm there, and that gives me enough material to practice on for a week! From fuzzy recollections of learning as a youth, I remember a lot of standing around while 30 other drones did their traverses, fell over, got righted, went a bit more, fell again, etc., whereas in a small group, you've got almost 100% skiing time and indidual attention to your own shortcomings. Alright you might only be doing it for an hour or two, but what you learn there allows you to go off and practice for the rest of the day, and really nail what you've been taught. In that respect, private lessons are in my view actually better value for money than group ones. Why pay to get agitated waiting for your turn and watch your cohorts fall over when you could have been shown what to do in 2 hours and then go off and play to your hearts content?
Just my tuppenny-worth.
ajhainey, I sympathise totally with your large group situation. I've given up organising our gang's annual jolly - the grief of getting everyone to pay up/insurance etc, plus arguing about where to go just doesn't appeal any more, strangely! Enjoy your trip - looking forward to hearing about it when you get back.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Annie, I suggest you contact Sarah@alpedhuez as she can tell you exactly who is good in ADH. She has a list. However I do know she's very busy at the moment (and has kids), so maybe a bribe would be in order??? Shock

Did you know you can reserve a private instructor for a ski school period - it's called Engagement. This sort of thing might work well for your group, so they can mix and match through the week. Very Happy

Help!!

"Most Alpine ski schools are a waste of money"!!

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