 Poster: A snowHead
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The general consensus on this forum seems to be that by and large private lessons are 'better value' for adults and I'm wondering if the same applies to kids.
We're off to Morillon at February half term with 6 kids in tow (not all ours I hasten to add!) and I'm looking to you ladies and gentlemen to help me decide what to do about instruction for them.
Child 1 is 8 and has 4 weeks skiing under his belt. If he did group lessons he'd be Fleche d'or this time. He doesn't particlarly enjoy ski school because he's usually been the only English speaker in the group and I think as he's getting better, both through language and through the fact that ESF seems to be the only ski school ( I may be wrong about this?) the class sizes are too big, any technical instruction gets 'lost' so he doesn't always progress as well as we think he could (this may of course just be him-but he's very strong and co ordinated physically and so highly competetive by nature I don't think so)..He'd also quite like to have a bash at boarding - should I let him?...my gut reaction is no, he should continue to develop his skiing for a couple of years yet.
Children 2 and 3, aged 8 and 10 who I haven't seen ski will have had 2 weeks experience. They haven't, as far as I know, had any qualified tuition but were taught last year by their father's partner and are going again with him in January. I understand they can both 'get down' blue runs and alledgedly some red but I have no idea how well.
Children 4,5 and 6 are aged 7, 9 and 11. They have never skied before.
Should I just stick them all in group lessons and hope, or is it worth doing private lessons for any or all of them? I know that I'll be unikely to change my mind at the time being such a busy week. If children 2 and 3 did group lessons what lesson level would you put them in at?
We'll also be travelling with 3 absolute beginner adults (parents of children 2-6) 2 of them I'm pretty sure are keen to learn, the 3rd I suspect will hide under the duvet with a good book given the slightest provocation!- what should I do with them?
Thanks for any help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Private lessons, especially with an instructor by recommendation, are definitely the way to go if you can afford it. Whatever the age. If you use the ESF insist - really insist - on getting someone who speaks good English. When I booked private lessons from resort to resort for my then 6 year old, some six weeks worth a season back then, I made sure I got what I wanted. A woman instructor for my daughter was definitely best when she was younger, no ancient monuments with knees cobbled together, etc etc.
(In passing, I think you mean étoile d'or, not flèche d'or. If your 8 year old is on the threshold of getting his flèche d'or after 4 weeks on skis, he'll be the next Bode Miller by the time he hits his teens!!  )
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Annie, Whatever you decide on I recommend you book now!! half term will be very very busy for the ski schools.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CP, very true, hadn't spotted the half-term bit, in fact even if you book now some place are reluctant/unable to provide private lessons during peak times.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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PG, I have had that problem with getting private lessons for SP. At half term you seem to get fitted around the 15 pupil ski schools.
Only place I have been where this was not a problem for February half term week was Stowe in Vermont. Very good ski school it was too I might add.
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Whoops - quite right PG definately a star not an arrow (usually looks like one from where I'm standing though!) Budget is unfortunately an issue, maybe not so much for our 8 year old but probably for the rest. Would fewer say 3 or 4 private 1hr lessons still be more beneficial than 6 day group? Could the beginner adults and kids have lessons together? or is the teaching technique/comparative progress rates etc too different from kids to adults? Could (and would there be any benefit to) mixing a couple of days private lessons with a couple of days group for either adults or kids
For our 8 year old it's about safety; developing his skiing so that when he hares off at a million miles an hour I'm not in a flat panic about whether I find a crumpled heap of broken bones as I trundle comparatively sedately round the next corner. So still very recreational skiing rather than all out get as good as possible skiing - Bode has nothing to fear!
For the others particularly the complete beginners it's all about 'getting them hooked'. I agree that they'll all learn to ski more quickly and better if they have private lessons but will they get as much out of private lessons from 'the holiday perspective' as they will out of group lessons...or am I just relating this to my own experience of going with tour operators in my early 20 something days when the whole group was English and 20 something (rather than 40 something!  )
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CP - exactly why I am asking the question now! I want to get this done and dusted in the next couple of days before the poor darlings end up with me teaching them nothing but bad habits! (I'd rather play scrabble all week before I inflict that on them.) We've done Morillon twice before at half term and I'm horribly aware of just how busy ESF gets.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Annie, Scrabble!! it must be bad 
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My immediate reaction would be that it would be a logistical nightmare to do all by private lessons. You'd be looking at least at three separate sessions and it would be difficult to arrange them all at the same time. You'd be forever coming and going throughout your holiday. It would also be very difficult to ski together out of lessons too as you are at different levels. In my experience, children are not so accommodating of slower children as adults are.
If it was me, I would be tempted to arrange morning group lessons for them all as then it gives you the opportunity to do some free skiing on your own. Kids 2-6 would likely to have someone else that speaks their language in their groups.
An alternative would be for the odd private lesson (or no lessons at all) for kid 1, but his mates may not be too happy at the idea of preferential treatment and you may like the break from him/her yourself.
It is a hard call having so many children, they will all have differing individual needs that it may be difficult for you to deal with. Some like skiing for the social aspect, some relish the challenge, some enjoy the thrill of the speed, some enjoy it all.
You can put 2 similar level children in the same situation and come out with different results. When ours did their second week, one of my daughters couldn't understand the heavily accented English of the instructor, so didn't progress very well and actually began to dislike skiing. Her younger sister in the same group got on fine and progressed well. The following year, the only way we could pursuade the first daughter to come with us again was by promising no lessons and free skiing with me all week. She is now OK, enjoys skiing and would have group lessons again, but it was touch and go for a while.
Tough call - good luck.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Another comment would be that if children 4-6 had lots of dry slope experience before they went, they may not be too dissimilar from children 2 and 3. I would have thought dry slopes should get you to the "'get down' blue runs and alledgedly some red " level. If they were all 5 together they could have much more fun.
It would certainly be worth getting in some dry-slope experience beforehand.
Another aspect to consider in this is that if you find the same as us, when we first went ours were 5, 9 and 11. Our eldest was quite a lot older than the others in her group as they seem to start much younger in general. I'm sure she didn't like being with the younger children (though she didn't say as much).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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one possibility would be to "hire" a ski instructor for however many whole days you can all afford, between you. Each day could start with a session for all the beginners, adults and children. A 9 and 11 year old will be able to learn like adults (ie listening and thinking a bit, not just copying) and possibly feel happier than in a big beginner group full of little tots, and the 7 year old will cope especially if with a parent. That might be more fun for all. especially the reluctant beginner. Then in the afternoon the more experienced could have sessions - mixing and matching groups flexibly, when you find out what your kids 2 and 3 can do. An instructor should be able to keep your 8 year old happy with exercises like short turns, and fun stuff like 360s and ski-ing backwards, to build his skills and keep his speed down, and will not let him ski out of control. If it is busy you will also have the advantage of priority at lift queues. And if you get some fresh snow the instructor could do some off-piste with the best skiers, including maybe the boy wizz.
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Annie, I concur with pam w, but first check the TO website to see if there is any ski school choice. Is there are choice in Les Carroz for instance? Then contact them and check out the possibilities. I should imagine that to rent an instructor (called "engagement") from midday to the end of the day would be cheaper than morning. You can then "mix & match" within your group. It may be cheaper than you think, but you must book now!
Alternatively, put them all in ski school and hope for the best. Private lessons by the hour would not be practical, and beginners need more time than 1 hour anyway.
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You know it makes sense.
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ps: forgot. No useful news from my brother - sorry.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wow thanks ladies, I have to say hadn't even considered the possibility of engagement, assuming that it wouldn't be practical with such a disparate range of ability. (Thinking about lessons outside the traditional group concept is way outside my experience so from 'maybe a couple of private lessons' to this is something of a radical departure!) Before I start pressing buttons or try and have a conversation with some poor soul in the ski school office in a dubious imitation of Franglais can I just clarify my understanding of what you are suggesting.
Are you saying that I could engage - Franglais already! - an instructor who would 'look after' all 10 of us for, say, 4 maybe 5 days (is that too much???) and that 'looking after' could involve a combination of 1 on 1, 1on 2 or 'mini group' i.e. the beginners, or all together just having some fun? and that the format could change from day to day so beginners could have tuition in the morning one day and the afternoon another (lie in for the reluctant soul!) or top and tail the day or s/he could devote a couple of hours or half day to one or two people for example taking my 8 yr old and/or husband (the only ones of the group with working 'courage buttons' ) out and about on the stuff that makes the rest of us quake while everyone else practises/does their own thing etc etc etc. I imagine the permutations could be pretty endless. Presumably the instructor would be best placed to help us make those decisions.
If this IS (loosely) what you're saying then I think you've solved my dilemma! Subject of course to availabilities.
Have looked at the websites of both Les Carroz and Morillon and yes les Carroz does have an alternative ski school but daily engagement appears to be an additional 150 or 200 euros! I know ESF reputation is 'less than perfect' but do you reckon we're really going to get 150+ euros 'more value' from them rather than ESF? All boils down to who you get I suppose!
If the consensus is that it might be 'value for money' would it be reasonable to expect the instructor meet us in Morillon - the ski bus doesn't go to Les Carroz (or an episode I had with the rental ski boots from hell last year lead me to understand it doesn't...unless my husband was just being particulalry evil and enjoyed watching my suffering) and there is no way I'd want to try getting the beginners over there on skis!
At least 3 of the adults can 'get by' (archaic A level standard and lots of holiday practise) in French so for us the 'English speaking' thing, while ideal, is not really such a big deal. In this possibly revised format do you think I should stop worrying about the language barrier for the kids increasing the chance presumably of getting an instructor who is not only qualified to teach but is good at it too! or should I stick to this as a criteria on the basis that it doesn't matter how good they are if the kids don't understand what they need to do or just be prepared to be flexible about it?
So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about the essay, but I reckon quality of provision for tuition is going to make the difference between getting hooked and never speaking to me again for the beginners and as I'm taking responsibility for putting the whole thing together, I'd like to get it right for them if I can.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Annie,
I have to agree with Charlotte (easiski). We did something very similar (funniliy enough in Les2Alpes) a couple of years ago. We had an instructor 'Ricey' who took all 6 of us (2 adults, 4 kids, 1 snowboarder) out together and gave us individual attention (within the group if you see what I mean) for 5 days.
It was very useful and loads of fun. He had the older kids doing tricks, jumps etc, one day they had a go on blades. He showed our oldest son how to get the best from his snowboard, and he even put up with me and Mrs Axsman falling over on the easy blues. It wasn't much more expensive than ski school, and was cheaper than having lots of different one-on-one lessons which wouldn't have been as much fun anyway. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks guys. Have e-mailed both Nouvelle Dimensions in Les Carroz and ESF in Morillon to see what they can come up with as they don't open until 10/12- so fingers crossed as this seems like a really good idea and as you say not much in it between standard ski school and doing it this way...Thanks again!!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| (In passing, I think you mean étoile d'or, not flèche d'or. If your 8 year old is on the threshold of getting his flèche d'or after 4 weeks on skis, he'll be the next Bode Miller by the time he hits his teens!! wink) |
In my one attempt at the fleche, I've only actually seen an ESF instructor get a fleche d'or-equivilant time. 
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Annie, Ihope you have a good time - I shall be waiting with bated breath to hear how it worked out.
mark_s, That's the whole point - the Gold is instructor standard racing!!!! When you can get a gold regularly, then you can think about starting on the long and winding road.
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