 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Is this the same survey?
Oh and out of interest why the age restriction? My 9 year old loves off piste and I've made sure she understands the risks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Not doing the survey cos your basic premise is rude and presumptive - most off piste I do is objectively safer than nearby pistes due to less traffic and out of control idiots. Hardly extreme. You'd be better off asking why are psychology students so presumptive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Got bored. Not sure that the questions are very well formed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
or of course the psychology aspect might be how yet another "extreme" questionnaire winds up forum members in which case - well played
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Yes - very long winded! Gave up
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Completed, Fi. Good luck with your dissertation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Honestly, it certainly didn't take 10+ minutes to do and as fi_merc, says they're looking for people of any ability, any of us can respond. I would have thought it was obvious why psychology undergrads are not allowed to approach children as part of their studies?! You can either get hung up about the wording of the OP, or you can help a student out by answering some questions for them….
Good luck fi_merc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
maybe she just needed some complete idiots for a psychology experiment? And asking a bunch of internet losers in the UK how hard core they were off-piste was a great way of finding them?
If I was looking for a clown I'd probably start where they all hang out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fi_merc, i find sokme of your questions a little contradictory and perhaps naive.
For example, S37. I'd answer yes to both. I only mention this as ther are 4 or 5 that I feel the same about...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
S41 if you are going to end up on crutches, skiing downhill having fun is one of the best ways to do it. Better, than, at least from my wife's point of view is suggesting than an interesting penetration would be by jumping off the wardrobe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I started to complete it but gave up fairly soon. My main problem was with the assumption that skiing off-piste is extreme, which made it impossible for me to give sensible answers. It can be "extreme", but so can skiing on-piste. I enjoy skiing off-piste, including just by the side of the piste as well as further away from marked runs and outside resort boundaries. But I don't consider what I do to be extreme (although others might, including my mother who told me off yesterday for not wearing a helmet when she saw some video of me). Maybe revising the questionnaire without using such loaded vocabulary might elicit a more helpful response?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The survey is not about any specific sport. It asks the open question "do you participate in extreme or non extreme sports" answer either extreme, non-extreme, both, neither. It's up to you to decide whether what you do is classed as extreme or not… perhaps you could use the idea of whether do you need additional insurance cover to do it on holiday as a guide? I suspect the OP is not getting enough respondents for the "extreme" side of things for their sample, hence the post. With the forced binary responses to some questions, of course there will be people who could answer yes to both, which is why it's been put in as a forced binary response… to compel you to plump for the one that represents you most strongly.
edit: have just discovered this survey was posted in another part of the forum and all the lovely snowHeads who filled it out said later that they were doing it with skiing in mind as a non-extreme sport, hence the OP sticking it in here and looking for people who might be able to answer "yes, I do extreme sports". The OP is interested in people who do sports that could lead to serious injury or death.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| miranda wrote: |
| The OP is interested in people who do sports that could lead to serious injury or death. |
That's not a helpful distinction, given that serious injury or death can occur in circumstances which are decidedly non-extreme. I've tried to be a lovely snowHead and complete the questionnaire, but the language used in the OP and the survey itself made it impossible for me. Sorry, I did try.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| miranda wrote: |
| The OP is interested in people who do sports that could lead to serious injury or death. |
That's not a helpful distinction, given that serious injury or death can occur in circumstances which are decidedly non-extreme. I've tried to be a lovely snowHead and complete the questionnaire, but the language used in the OP and the survey itself made it impossible for me. Sorry, I did try. |
Sure, that's why I suggested using what your travel insurance people see as risky. You can trip over a paving stone, bump your head, and have a serious injury or even die, but it's clear to everyone that walking down the street is not an "extreme sport". If you are doing an activity that requires you to carry safety gear, have avalanche training etc. or putting yourself in a situation where there is a significant chance of falling over at speed and injuring yourself badly, then you can answer 'yes' to the extreme bit for the purposes of this survey.
I see that you did try, Rob, and at least bothered to give a reasoned explanation as to why you found it too difficult and gave up; it's the unnecessary rudeness from others that I find so unpalatable.
All the people commenting in the Chevalier Couloir thread can fill this survey out, surely?
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 7-02-14 10:36; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
miranda, was I rude??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
rob@rar, no, I specifically said "from others"!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
and that subsequent edit was punctuation, for clarity!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
miranda, sorry for speed reading your comment about that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
rob@rar, no problem - sorry if it seemed like I was having a dig at you, as I wasn't, promise!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| miranda wrote: |
edit: have just discovered this survey was posted in another part of the forum and all the lovely snowHeads who filled it out said later that they were doing it with skiing in mind as a non-extreme sport, hence the OP sticking it in here and looking for people who might be able to answer "yes, I do extreme sports". The OP is interested in people who do sports that could lead to serious injury or death. |
Exactly - poor method - attempting to bias the sample, prejudicedview that off-pisters are "crazy people". There ain't much "extreme" except maybe that free-hanging that those Ukranians were doing in that recent Channel 4 doc and a tiny tiny percentage of the most skilled wing suiters and ski mountaineers (and even the latter would probably say they have very heavy risk mitigation in mind in everything they do).
Maybe her conclusion would be extreme sports don't actually exist and it was just a 90s marketing term.
The rudeness is in the repetition from elsewhere, the intrinsic laziness of the concept she's exploring (as if dozens of students haven't come on here in the past decade with the same type of q'aires) and as Rob says the format of the q're which makes drop out highly likely and qs unanswerable. We could all do the "love a student" thing and lie about our viewpoint but perhaps she should be looking at metadata on how many people start the questionnaire then give up as something meaningful to study.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 7-02-14 10:59; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Extreme Ironing anyone?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Guys the OP has also posted this in the AZ and has given answers to some of the questions posited above, the nature of the survey is undoubtedly somewhat flawed but she is a student trying to learn how to do it. I really don't think she is trying to paint skiing or off piste skiing as a dangerous or extreme activity, but is interested in exploring the nature of those who practice it.
I suspect she will quickly discover though that having a pilot study will iron out some of the flaws in her methodology.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
The rudeness is in the repetition from elsewhere |
There's still absolutely no need for it - you are more than capable of making your point, albeit firmly, without being an ar$e.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| miranda wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
The rudeness is in the repetition from elsewhere |
There's still absolutely no need for it - you are more than capable of making your point, albeit firmly, without being an ar$e. |
One person's ar$e is another's blunt feedback - personally I see crossposting of something like this as not that different to spam. There's no apology or explanation for that and the "crazy people" line did wind me up - it may have been an attempt at ironic humour but it hardly makes the OP look like a professional or unbiased observer.
It's an internet forum, if you want to reap the benefits you need to be able to deal with the occasional are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
fatbob, she's not a professional, she's not a spammer, she's an undergrad student finding her way and - as a new member of the forum - probably doesn't understand that posting in two different areas of the forum is "rude" (she posted the original in AZ for a start, rather than the generally visible Piste forum) so how would she know that you are expecting an apology for that?
Anyway, good luck fi_merc and I hope some of the more constructive feedback has been helpful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Professional in the sense of "would she like to discuss with her supervisors whether her OP was an appropriately "scientific" way to introduce the survey or define "extreme".
I doubt forum etiquette is lost on most 4th year students unless they had a strict Amish upbringing and have only just seen a computer. She's an adult not a 14 year old kid.
Anyway she'll get some valuable life skills out of this thread - for every prick (me) there is a knight/ess in shining armour.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| miranda wrote: |
| There's still absolutely no need for it - you are more than capable of making your point, albeit firmly, without being an ar$e. |
The OP is presumably perfectly capable of referencing the other thread containing the other questions and answers about her questionnaire.
Sporty forums have no shortage of student questionnaire pushers, the vast majority of which don't bother to create a good set of questions (or even look at the content of and responses to last years set of student questionnaires!), engage with the communities or accept feedback or criticism and adjust their questionnaires as a result. They're all perfectly capable of doing so, it is just that it is a bit too much like effort and (like any other spammer) they can just fire out requests at enough people and even a 1% response rate is enough to get them the data they need.
And seriously... are you actually taking issue with people saying stuff like 'it was too long' or 'the premise was rude and presumptive'? The discourse here has been astonishingly polite by the standards of internet forums.
| miranda wrote: |
| she's not a professional, she's not a spammer, she's an undergrad student finding her way |
I note she didn't post a thread anywhere asking whether posting questionnaires was okay, for example... post first, ask for forgiveness later. If she didn't know that her actions would be considered 'rude', it is because she has made no attempt to find out if they were acceptable at all.
As a fourth year student, she's going to be at least 21, yes? She's not a child, and quite capable of dealing with these things herself. It would be nice if you were a little less patronising and nannying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| a knight/ess in shining armour. |
Yeah, sometimes you need that armour when running the gauntlet of posting on a forum full of grumpy old farts 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Serriadh wrote: |
| She's not a child, and quite capable of dealing with these things herself. It would be nice if you were a little less patronising and nannying. |
People have dished out the same deal to people way over the age of 21 when they've asked for similar help and I've responded similarly. I don't see why age matters really, and why it's so difficult not to respond in the way Rob did, but there you go…. Anyway, I apologise for pissing you off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| under a new name wrote: |
fi_merc, i find sokme of your questions a little contradictory and perhaps naive.
For example, S37. I'd answer yes to both. I only mention this as ther are 4 or 5 that I feel the same about... |
Similar reaction from me. Poorly phrased questions and responses. I think some input from their Tutor is required in designing a question set, where there are a limited set of responses to choose from would have resulted in more meaningful and accurate data.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Most of these questionnaires seem to come from Psychology students. My daughter will be off to university to take Psychology in September, I'll probably advise her not to come here for help
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Claude B wrote: |
| Most of these questionnaires seem to come from Psychology students. My daughter will be off to university to take Psychology in September, I'll probably advise her not to come here for help |
I suspect she might be rather better positioned to construct a meaningful hypothesis and test it with a skiing population. There is good stuff to be done in psychology in relation to skiing particularly in relation to heuristics in avalanche mitigation/route selection (I think we saw a recent example of something more thoughtful in this area) or even on piste safety and personal attitudes towards responsibility but the whole "attitude to extreme sports" thing is so overplayed it's getting to be a joke.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
fatbob, Only because she's an experienced skier. If she approached, plucking an example out of the air, a parachuting forum, she'd be facing the same challenges. My view is that everyone has a different perception (which can change) to the definition of extreme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
fatbob, looked to me to be a sensible use of an old but standard questionnaire looking at the links between perception of risk, personality and self esteem. We just see a lot of them.
Regarding the questionnaire design - Zuckerman (I think) drafted and testing this one in the 1960s. The trade off for the researcher here is between looking dated and losing comparability with the large number of other studies that have used the same tool.
Who's sock puppet is Marvin9999? I'm having a slow day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Claude B, as an undergrad she will be limited in what hypothesis she is allowed to use within the framework of her supervisor's field of interest, she will have to use a pre-constructed questionnaire that has been sent out by many, many students before her (with a few added questions of her own), the pre-constructed questionnaire will have an attitude scale in it, which seems to repeat the same question over and over again with slightly different wording, and people will tell her it's boring, long-winded, repetitive, they've seen it all before, or the questions are bizarre and random. The postgrad one I did on Csikszentmihalyi's theory of flow took 45 minutes to complete and I had no option of cutting it down… 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sort of a cross post with gorilla
| gorilla wrote: |
Who's sock puppet is Marvin9999? I'm having a slow day. |
I was also wondering whose sock that was  (also having a slow day).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| miranda wrote: |
| The postgrad one I did on Csikszentmihalyi's theory of flow took 45 minutes to complete and I had no option of cutting it down… |
How on earth do you get a meaningful sample out of that? Do you not just get people with really high boredom thresholds as everyone else self selects out of it, unless of course you are paying. I think that's the instrinsic problem with internet q'res, because the only reward is the satisfaction of completing it, finding it tedious or conflicting leads to criticism, particularly if the instigator is slapdash in how they position it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
