 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello- anyone know any actual facts about Licence Carte Neige (rather than 'things I've been told by (insert third party here)'.
I'm looking to insure myself and the family- our eldest son (will be 16 in December) is looking to train / race with both AWSA and GB telemark team-possibly an FIS licence / race later this year - or next season this last bit makes insurance tricky and or crazy expensive.
In the past bought Carte Neige in addition to Direct travel insurance- (why I really can't say- some people on Snowheads think it is a good idea to have both) I have an English version of the Carte Neige T&Cs (albeit 2014/2015) on the desk in front of me.
In other threads people say (usually because someone has told them).
1. Won't repatriate to anywhere but France!
but residence is defined as anywhere in the world where you live- (para 1.16) and abroad is defined as a country where you don't live (para 1.21) and repatriation is to your residence in Europe or a hospital nearby (para 4.9.1) or if not resident in Europe to a hospital near your home.- also includes insured's companion.
2. Only covers public not private hospitals
para 1.29- treatment costs in public or private hospitals
3. Does not provide cancellation insurance- true
As far as I can work it out Carte Neige does provide
Civil liability
Legal defense
Rescue fees- unlimited in France- limited to euro 15245 elsewhere
Medical transportation- off the hill, to the hospital- back to hotel - back home if in UK / anywhere in Europe, back to hospital near home if home out of Europe. Plus sorts out car etc.
Travel for accompanying family if need to be repatriated. or for someone to come and look after you.
Ski lift / instruction
Lost pass
Skis
Ski rental
Medical expenses- public or private 30000-300000 depending on level of cover. But not for pre-existing conditions.
Injury
Death
Repatriation in event of attack, dister, home loss.
And will cover all skiing and fitness- hiking biking in Europe
and climbing / mountaineering for an extra premium.
BUT NOT- cancellation of holiday costs, travel difficulties/delay missed flights etc, lost / stolen possessions, - which are actually all things I'm not at all bothered by.
Underwriter is QBE
Or does anyone else actually know what the issues to 'just' using Carte Neige and EHIC (and insuring self for other losses) really are??
Anyone had actual experience of claiming on 'just Carte Neige' and anyone had any issues?
Anyone know if Carte Neige good for what I'd like- which is ski insurance for skiing injury / illness and not insurance for stuff I'm happy to cover myself.
BUT FOR ME- competitions/ training look to be included- ONLY IF ORGANISED BY FFS OR AFFILIATED CLUB (son might go to les Houches telemark training in January- which would be covered I think).
So for GB telemark championships- any idea about insurance?
Or not?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ed123, I 'just' used Carte Neige and EHIC last year and will do the same this winter. Haven't needed to make a claim though.
I posted in the other thread what I had been told about repatriation.
The policy document is available in English, have you got it ?
If your son gets a competition licence then the insurance policy will be at the "Optimum" level which includes extra stuff.
My understanding is that the GB Telemark Championships would be covered.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ed123, I would definitely get a separate policy for your son that covers both racing and training (and importantly, specifies training). The British (alpine) team uses Fogg, try them, and talk to BSS about what the telemark guys are using.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@ed123, we use CN to top up our Swiss accident insurance. I’m not sure this is optimal but we did a fair bit of investigation a couple of years ago.
I think your interpretation is correct, in particular that it’s only intended to cover FFS training and comps.
Just looking at the page now, it seems to have changedin that I recalled it covering you for pretty much any sporting activity.
Now it seems only snowsports...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| I think your interpretation is correct, in particular that it’s only intended to cover FFS training and comps. |
The policy states that it covers competition organized by a ski federation, not just the FFS. Wouldn't be much point in providing worldwide cover if it was only for French races.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@rjs, my reading it was the Ski fed and any others sanctioned. But I’m sure you’re interprétation makes more sense.
Anyone recall if it covered other activities in the past?
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Well the last time I was in an offpiste group that someone needed repatriating from thanks to a exploding calf muscle Carte neige paid for repat with no hassle.
NB it doesn't work if you fall over in the street!
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| rjs wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| I think your interpretation is correct, in particular that it’s only intended to cover FFS training and comps. |
The policy states that it covers competition organized by [b]a ski federation,[/b] not just the FFS. Wouldn't be much point in providing worldwide cover if it was only for French races. |
true - that's what it says!
but what does that really mean? I have the policy in English from 2014/15 and it seems very similar /identical in the ffs website.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ed123, You will get your Carte Neige Competition through a club. Why don't you ask them, or the staff of whichever region the club is in ?
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| Quote: |
true - that's what it says!
but what does that really mean? I have the policy in English from 2014/15 and it seems very similar /identical in the ffs website.
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Carre Neige is quite clear about the fact that it's providing insurance to "recreational and tourism skiers" so racing internationally for your country or travelling with the specific purpose of racing/training will require a specialist insurance like Fogg (which unfortunately is not always the cheapest). The best (only) people to talk to are BSS if he's national team! There's a few different companies so you can shop around
Bear in mind that FIS require each NSA to ensure the athlete has the correct policy to cover racing & training before they'll grant a licence anyway.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ed123, For the GB Tele Champs I bought a separate policy. Note that if your annual policy does not cover ski racing, the insurer may decide not to cover you at all for that trip --- that's what happened to me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ed123, I hope I'm not de-railing your thread slightly here but I'm very interested in the question of whether Carte Neige and EHIC alone are sufficient for our requirements. We do not need racing cover like your son, but each year when it's time to re-new our annual insurance I go through all the angst of whether we are sufficiently insured for our purposes and have always (so far) succumbed to the 'belt and braces' approach and have taken out insurance with MPI as well as carte neige and EHIC cover.
Like you, I am not interested in all the travel/cancellation/lost baggage etc bits. I want to know that I am covered for skiing off piste without a guide and in the event of an accident will be taken to a hospital, the treatment costs will be covered, I am repatriated if necessary back to the U.K. All of this seems to me to be included within the Carte Neige and EHIC. My only other concern is the question of legal costs/claims against me if I should be at fault in causing an accident and other people decide to sue me. If I'm honest, this is probably the reason why I have always taken out additional insurance as I had a doubt whether this is covered under the carte neige. Reading your opening post though it looks as if civil liability and legal defence are included - if anyone knows what the limits are I would appreciate knowing this. I will have a look on the web site too.
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@loatie, as someone pointed out above Carte Neige wouldn't cover you for any injury sustained when not skiing, so e.g. a slip in the street. if you are not bothered about full accident or illness cover then fair enough as your EHIC would go along way towards covering the cost of treatment but you if you need repatriation or additional support to travel then you would have to pay for that yourself
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You know it makes sense.
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| moseyp wrote: |
| Quote: |
true - that's what it says!
but what does that really mean? I have the policy in English from 2014/15 and it seems very similar /identical in the ffs website.
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Carre Neige is quite clear about the fact that it's providing insurance to "recreational and tourism skiers" so racing internationally for your country or travelling with the specific purpose of racing/training will require a specialist insurance like Fogg (which unfortunately is not always the cheapest). The best (only) people to talk to are BSS if he's national team! There's a few different companies so you can shop around
Bear in mind that FIS require each NSA to ensure the athlete has the correct policy to cover racing & training before they'll grant a licence anyway. |
The questions are not about Carre Neige they are about Carte Neige. The "Optimum" level of Carte Neige that you get when you take out a French national start licence does provide insurance for racing and training.
You are Irish aren't you ? Asking BSS about anything is not very productive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
The questions are not about Carre Neige they are about Carte Neige. The "Optimum" level of Carte Neige that you get when you take out a French national start licence does provide insurance for racing and training.
You are Irish aren't you ? Asking BSS about anything is not very productive.
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If you read the first post, the OP's son is on the GB telemark team and BSS is the NSA for skiing in GB.
What difference does it make? Neither are cover for professional skiers
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Poster: A snowHead
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Carre Neige is what you buy at the lift pass office for the duration of your ski pass.
Carte Neige is an annual policy from October to October and covers rescue from the mountain for most outdoor sports ie skiing, backcountry, hiking, mountain biking etc
Doesn’t cover rock climbing but there’s an add on for €15 for that.
Combined with health cover of your choice, EHIC etc, it’s a good safety net.
Pretty sure it won’t cover racing but as said above you buy it through a club ( I’m with Serre Chevalier) so they will advise
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The thing to remember about the EHIC in France is that it doesn't provide full health cost insurance only the same as a French national gets which for hospital stays amounts to an 80% reduction leaving 20% to be paid for either by travel insurance or carte neige. I don't believe that carte neige will cover for non winter sports accidents or illness, but happy to be proved wrong on this, in which case you have to pay the 20% not covered.
I believe that the rules in each country vary, I think I have read somewhere in Snowheads that an EHIC in Switzerland does give full cover.
Recently a 4 day stay in a French hospital for my wife cost €5,000 of which €4,000 was covered by EHIC and the insurance company covered the remaining €1,000.
Do either the AWSA or GB Telemark have recommended insurers? Have you considered MPI who appear to offer race cover?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| KenX wrote: |
| Pretty sure it won’t cover racing ... |
Your one may not do but mine certainly does.
I guess one thing to check would be whether the OP was proposing to just get the default "loisir" Carte Neige without registering for a French competition licence.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"Competitions, official or otherwise, preparatory training provided that the sessions are held under the control, or the supervision or with the authorization of the FFS, committees or clubs or any person mandated by the FFS, outside the excluded activities"
Make of that what you wish.......
I have the medium option, which covers me for what I want, i.e. on and off piste skiing, hiking and mountain biking.
If you have a son who wants to compete in a race which is probably not covered by the FFS, I would go for the Compétiteur option for him and the medium for the rest of you. Worth checking with FFS first, sure they can find an English-speaking staff member to answer an email from you.......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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HI
glad so many people have answered. Thanks. Little ed123 not 'on' GB telemark team- but training 'with' them- subtle difference. Only 15 now so not able to race in FIS comps- but will be old enough soon (good enough is a different matter).
I have looked at Dogtag- which have a discount of a bit for SSE registered skiers- will also talk to Fogg. What is MPI please?
I have to say I'm a bit confused by the Carte Neige policy as far as racing and training goes. GB telemark champs not as far as I know FFS affiliated.
I think I'll ask AWSA for suggestions- but I;m trying not to be too much of a pain- but as a newcomer to the intricacies of ski racing it does seem like there are an awful lot of questions- to which the answers seem obvious to the people who know- but almost completely impenetrable to me. (and that is just about helmets and back protectors which could be threads of their own).
It does look like 'Just Carte Neige and EHIC' provides quite a bit of cover for stuff I want covered for the rest of the family.
Third party liability is;
Injury , damage loss- euros 8M
Negligence euros 2M
etc.
@loatie, - don't worry about asking a great question- I hope the above answers if - if not I can do more typing (NB those numbers from 2014/15 policy).
I wonder if there is an opportunity for someone in the UK to offer exactly this sort of insurance aimed at UK skiers/climbers- ie just for skiing mountaineering rescue and related accidents/ excluding travel / accommodation / upfront costs but perhaps including costs for illness / repatriation not covered by EHIC ?
Just to add something to th emix
another option might be to add Carte Neige to an annual travel insurance (without wintersports coverage) on the basis that if you have a ski accident skiing Carte Neige will pay- if you have a travel or illness issue then then other insurer will- or is that just nonsense?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Timc, thanks
looks like a good outfit- 17 days per trip any number of trips.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ed123, Thanks for those figures. Re your last sentence, we have travel insurance via our bank account for world wide trips so that, along with EHIC and Carte Neige seems as you say to be pretty much covered for our purposes. I'm sure an exasperated Mr Loatie will think so anyway!
Just as an aside, we have used MPI for the past few years (when I succumbed to my inner voices!) and I have always thought their cover very comprehensive and competetive - pardon the pun.
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| loatie wrote: |
@ed123, I hope I'm not de-railing your thread slightly here but I'm very interested in the question of whether Carte Neige and EHIC alone are sufficient for our requirements. We do not need racing cover like your son, but each year when it's time to re-new our annual insurance I go through all the angst of whether we are sufficiently insured for our purposes and have always (so far) succumbed to the 'belt and braces' approach and have taken out insurance with MPI as well as carte neige and EHIC cover.
Like you, I am not interested in all the travel/cancellation/lost baggage etc bits. I want to know that I am covered for skiing off piste without a guide and in the event of an accident will be taken to a hospital, the treatment costs will be covered, I am repatriated if necessary back to the U.K. All of this seems to me to be included within the Carte Neige and EHIC. My only other concern is the question of legal costs/claims against me if I should be at fault in causing an accident and other people decide to sue me. If I'm honest, this is probably the reason why I have always taken out additional insurance as I had a doubt whether this is covered under the carte neige. Reading your opening post though it looks as if civil liability and legal defence are included - if anyone knows what the limits are I would appreciate knowing this. I will have a look on the web site too. |
Whilst young, free and single I have skied with just EHIC and CN. I felt it had enough cover. There was a vociferous debate about it on here. With a few saying it was a good enough and the majority saying they didn't think it did and/or wanting to play it safe. I switched back to EHIC + insurance and no CN after a couple of years. And now I have a family I still do. I use MPI. If you really want to go full belt and braces you would use insurance + EHIC + CN.
I don't think you ever know what is going to happen until it does. And if you ever read the stories from folks on here it can be everything from really easy, I didn't have to do a thing right through to it was a complete nightmare, I had to chase people for months and still didn't get it all. So much depends on where you have your accident, what cover you have, where you end up getting treatment and what insurance company you are using. It's a shame of course because everyone thinks they are buying "peace of mind".
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FAQ
