 Poster: A snowHead
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Some help please!
I've skied for years, generally two weeks a year, and am reasonably competent anywhere served by a lift + a plod. In recent years I've spent more time off-piste, but wouldn't describe myself as expert. Enjoying learning/adapting though! I am also a keen cyclist and enjoy riding up the alps and pyrenees in the summer just as much as I enjoy skiing down them in the winter.
Ski-touring looks like it might combine my masochistic long climb streak with a little off-piste skiing. Also a way to indulge my love for quiet and out of the way places and moments in the mountains. If weather/conditions allow it occurs to me that I can supplement my alpine trips with days out here in the UK, perhaps the Brecon Beacons...
So I am ready to take a new step with my skiing but have no clue where to start kit-wise! Could somebody point me in the right direction please?
I want to enjoy long climbs and then clip-in and ski down like I would using "ordinary" boots and skis. What do I need to make this possible? What should I be looking for in terms of boots, bindings, skis and skins?
I have owned skis in the past but have settled with renting in recent years as I like to change to suit conditions and aspirations. A few weeks ago I skied in Les Gets and enjoyed a set of Dynastar Cham 97's. I felt I could ski anywhere in these, on- or off-piste. Would they be good or would I be better with more specific kit?
Boots look thoroughly confusing with terms I'm not clear on like "touring" and "free ride"... What's that all about? Some boots claim to be good for both of these, which sounds good to me.
Don't even get me started on bindings....
I know myself well enough to know that this won't be a passing fad for me, so am happy to invest in top-end kit from the outset. Budget (thankfully) not a constraint.
I'd be really grateful if someone could point me in the right direction! Thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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having been in your position a year ago, I would say go straight for dedicated ski touring boots with vibram type soles and dynafit type inserts, some skis of ''all mountain'' dimensions around 80-100mm depending on the amount of uphill you might be doing, dynafit type bindings, skins, couteaux de neige, poles with powder baskets, 35 litre rucksack and the sort of technical mountain clothes you would use to walk up hills (i.e. layers, waterproof, breathable)
all this is going to cost quite a lot so might be an idea to rent something the first time, in case you don't like it.
To begin with probably best to go with a guide on an organise trip, of which there are many providers.
I don't know if snowheads do any touring on the spring off piste bashes, not sure.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am by no means very experienced tourer, but I started two seasons ago by changing bindings on my skis to Fritschi Freeride and cutting skins for them. I used my normal alpine boots with them, even without walk mode, I would just unbuckle them. For short skins it worked OK, and I started by simply going up the main runs early in the morning when lifts were closed, practicing kick turns etc. For anything off piste (even when it's on a side of pistes) you would need an experienced touring partner for tips and trail breaking and for anything remote - a guide. Also take an avalanche training course as you have to be able to come to your guide rescue. And in some resorts you might find dedicated ski touring courses, where things like navigation are explained.
I switched to Dynafit boots eventually which made a big difference on the up and I had to adapt to them on the down. This season I got a full on dedicated touring set-up, skis with Dynafit Radical bindings so that I don't need to re-adjust Freerides every time I swap boots from touring to alpine as BSLs are different. The total weight difference with this set-up and touring boots instead of alpine is more than 1 kilo per leg. But there was a learning curve to me again with new bindings. Overall I much prefer Dynafits to Fritschis.
Clothing is important. If you normally ski in a jacket you need to change to a layering system. Jackets are too warm/too bulky and too heavy. And adjustable poles with powder baskets - though in the beginning normal poles should do too especially if you start on the piste, when you need one pole shorter you can always hold it closer to the basket. 30+ liters packs are good for long tours, you don't need that in the beginning unless you want to practice skiing with a load.
Basically for skis any all-mountain or freeride ski with waist of around 90 should serve well provided it's not too heavy. Dynafit bindings are a popular choice and now they make touring boots that are as stiff as alpine boots. My touring boots are stiffer than my alpine boots and I ski in them with tongues pulled out to make flex more progressive.
If budget is not an issue, get a "proper" touring set up. At Sport-Conrad you can get yourself a package ski+bindings with a good discount too and some manufacturers also have skins pre-cut to their line-up of skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You can hire skis with fritschi touring bindings all over the alps. These'll be compatible with pretty much any ski boot (including alpine ones). Find yourself an instructor and see how you feel about it. If you can get some touring boots, book yourself into an intro-to-touring weekend, or similar. Not too pricey, definitely worth it.
Buying proper touring boots will make a world of difference, but its quite an expensive up-front investment. Given how easy it is to hire the rest of the kit, you don't need to get skis, bindings, skins, etc. until you've got money to spare. It is awkward to buy touring boots in the UK, because there aren't many shops that hold a bunch of different models and different sizes so you can find some that actually fit well, and shops that do have suitable boots often stock older models (and newer models are often much better in many ways). Profeet and backcountryuk are places I've used in the past.
Get dynafit compatible boots, even if you're not intending to use dynafit bindings straight away, because the odds are good that you will in the future!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
It is awkward to buy touring boots in the UK, because there aren't many shops that hold a bunch of different models and different sizes...
Get dynafit compatible boots, even if you're not intending to use dynafit bindings straight away, because the odds are good that you will in the future! |
This is actually easier in Scotland, where the sport is probably already more popular than golf or dogging, and second only to fussball.
Agree about Tech compatibility. It seems almost unbelievable that any of the manufacturer's marketing/product/design teams still allow boots to leave their factories without it.
IanTR, I'd say don't compromise on the flex of the boots and don't be a weight weenie with your skis either if you enjoy the downhill as much as the journey. Some lightweight kit is designed for uphill competition and isn't great for Alpine downhill.
Also, keep a bargain eye out for axes and crampons ... these will eventually come in handy and if you can grab some s/h or cheap, you will save yourself £100-£150 somewhere down the line.
The advice to use a guide is all well and good if they exist but in many places, that's just not possible. The joy in ski touring though is in the personal freedom it gives you and there's no harm at all in going solo but you'll just need to be entirely self-dependent. It's really not hard to choose safe enough lines and to ski conservatively enough to have a great day out alone. Any snowy hills and mountains can have aspects that become wind slabby, have sun warmed dropping cornices, slopes that are icy or sastrugied enough to make the skiing quite tough etc but those risks should be obvious enough with caution, even in poor visibility and in conjunction with an avalanche bulletin and map, adjustments to routes can be made so you have a completely safe day all by yourself with just the mountains for company. If you can ski a route that you've already hiked or walked in the summer time, you're also at a huge advantage in terms of visualising what to expect.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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First, (and most importantly) find some like minded friends:
This is in the Pennines
Second: get some skins (straight will do) and some Alpine Trekkers and give it a go with your existing gear. You'll find out if it floats your boat.
Third: start spending serious money:
Boots - the range has expanded enourmously recently. Get some that fit your feet - you really don't want blisters two days in with another four back to habitation. As mentioned above, look for ones with Tech inserts (originally from Dynafit but now available from many sources). Footbeds are even more important 'cos your feet move around more than in an alpine boot.
Bindings - if you're hankering for multi-day tours then Tech bindings are the way to go. Otherwise, Fritschi are reliable and simple to use. Get compatible harscheisen that are just a bit wider than your skis.
Skins - mohair/nylon mix seems to be preferred in Europe. Make sure they are cut to fit your ski and have reliable clips. I prefer a large fixed loop at the toe and adjustment at the rear. It's all too easy to kick off small toe loops.
Skis - you are unlikely to be skiing champagne powder so don't get suckered into faat skis. I still tour on 73mm waist skis. ractys says 80-100mm and that seems fine. Take note of the weight - below 1kg each and you'll be skipping around on them, above 2kg and you'll be complaining about the uphill.
Clothing - I assume you'll have some gear but bear in mind that you'll sweat a bit going uphill so everything will need to breathe. You won't want to be skinning in a Goretex jacket - no matter how posh it is. You'll also get obsesive about the weight of everything!
Avy gear - (nearly forgot!) get the 'holy trinity' of beacon, shovel and probe and then practice, practice, practice.
Fourth: stay safe and just get on with it.
Some TRs to tempt you:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1418177
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=59903
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2282918
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2027068
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=63581
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 29-01-14 11:37; edited 3 times in total
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Keep an eye on the second hand sales -
Something like:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=107659
or:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=107663
If you are just starting out I wouldn't worry about boots, stick with your alpine ones until you know it's for you.
Otherwise you could pick up a pair of older (unfashionable) Fristchi bindings and have them mounted with quiver killers on your current off piste ski's. With Quiver Killers you can keep the mounting points for your existing bindings if you want to have a choice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just put the Atomic Tracker / Salomon Guardian bindings on my 98mm all round skis so that I could use downhill boots for normal use. Amazing binding, a little heavy for pure touring but solid as any downhill Alpine binding I've used for piste and off piste. I just did an 850 m ascent in under two and a half hours so they are adequate for half a day of hiking with compatible boots (I converted my Dynafit Ones to fit Alpine din bindings). I thought I might struggle to adapt to changing from a stiff boot to a flexible touring boot but had no problems. I also bought my skins from the States, half the price of Europe for G3 mohair mix versions.
Just thought I'd give you another few options to think about.
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I'd get some winter navigation and mountaineering skills as well as doing an avalanche course unless you're already experienced with such things. You can still rent gear until you're definitely sold on touring and it will give you some idea of how different pieces of kit handle.
Freeriding is basically off-piste skiing with the aim of skiing aesthetic lines as stylishly as possible... or a marketing buzzword if you are a curmudgeon. In marketing lingo for touring gear it's usually used to denote stiffer and more alpine like equipment that is better for downhill use than it is uphill. Depending on the kind of touring you end up doing and fitness levels it might or might not be a good match.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| moffatross wrote: |
| This is actually easier in Scotland, where the sport is probably already more popular than golf or dogging, and second only to fussball. |
You should be in marketing 
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