 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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genuinely shocked
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| genuinely shocked |
I am not surprised at all.
BSS only has 147 beds allocated and after all the 'officials' there are only 2 left for skiers 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ansta1, if only that were the case, sadly for the skiers of team GB they are lucky to get a technician and if they are incredibly lucky one other, years ago one of the British ski team almost caused a hotel in Wengen to burn down, he'd been waxing his skis in the basement the evening before the race and was so tired he left the iron on, fortunately a late returning guest smelt something and no damage occured, a few years ago the mens alpine chaps were pooling resources with the Ausies, not sure whats happening these days
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ansta1, D G Orf, The Alpine Downhill guys have been without anyone apart from a coach for the past few years. They have been doing all their own skis until late at night for a long while. The only WC team without a Technician! They have just got an Austrian Tech trained by Atomic who has been paid for by a sporting charity. Everything else is paid for by their own funds, sponsorship & donations. There will be a lot of hangers on going to Sochi, who will make not a scrap of difference to the performance of the athletes - as with all major sporting events!
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Plugboy, I agree it's a disgrace, they'd not ask Sir Ben Ainsley to carry his own boat to such events or any of the other high profile sports stars with lots of kit, but skiers and boarders do seem to get it in the neck, typically travelling around in second hand motors between resorts with very limited support and negligeable funding, how are they ever going to do well against teams who have so much more backup.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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After chatting to someone in the know today slightly less shocked for Emily Sarsfield, apparently there are only 32 start places and they have been allocated to the top 32 in WC points listing, she still has a hope should some of those not be able to or elect not to attend. I couldn't understand why GB wouldn't field a single athlete in SkierCross which will be a highly watched sport but from what I heard today it wast BOA but rather limited start places to blame.
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who has a higher medal chance with current states of fitness Chemmy, Dougie or TJ ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| Plugboy skiers and boarders do seem to get it in the neck, typically travelling around in second hand motors between resorts with very limited support and negligeable funding. |
sounds pretty average for most skiiers and snowboarders. sponsors rarely pay a wage.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Eve Muirhead can polish my parquet whenever she likes. I'll even throw in the Mr Sheen.
Pity she was forced to busk in a pub carpark all summer to pay her way to Sotchi
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Anyone know (Plugboy ?) how many places GB are granted for each of the 5 Alpine Disciplines at the Olympics? Did we get any more than one place a la World Cup.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Each nation is allocated places depending on the ranking of their athletes on the latest FIS points list. For Freestyle skiing GBR was allocated 6 places and all these have been filled, 2 male HP, 2 female HP, 1 male SS and 1 female SS. There is a limit on how many competitors are allowed in each event.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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mogulski, the curse of skier cross being a freestyle rather than alpine discipline...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BSS look like they did not want to take hardly any Alpine skiers to Sochi.
Out of the 7 allocated spots for Alpine they select 2, - 1 male & 1 female.
Cross Country skiing has 5 allocated slots and they select 4, - 3 male & 1 female.
Here are the FIS Olympic rankings of the cross country skiers -
Andrew Musgrave is 37th in Sprint, 122nd in Distance
Andrew Young is 127th in Sprint, 487th in Distance
Callum Smith is 576th in Sprint, 546th in Distance
Posi Musgrave is 101st in Sprint, 357th in Distance.
There are only 15 GB Cross Country athletes on the FIS world ranking list and 4 are going to Sochi. Thats over 25%!
There are 173 Alpine athletes on the FIS world ranking list and 2 are going to Sochi. That's just over 1%!!
How is it a fair and level playing field to GB skiers to get to the Olympics?
An Alpine skier who is ranked 48th in the world on the Olympic list is not going when 3 Cross Country skiers who are not even in the top 100 & 1 not even top 500 are going.
Are they anymore of a medal prospect then TJ or Dougie? Definitly not!!!
Paddy Mortimer is going to get some serious questions asked!
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| Plugboy wrote: |
| Paddy Mortimer is going to get some serious questions asked! |
Do you expect serious answers 
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If the BOC are only going to only send skiers with a "realistic" chance of bringing home medals, are they not going against the Olympic ideal
I am gutted we aren´t sending a male speed racer, TJ and Dougie must be devastated.
Plugboy, my heart literally breaks for you both, so much hard work, time and financial investment and you get a kick in the balls like this, it´s absolutely ludicrous.
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the whole thing sucks
/ that is all
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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+2
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kooky wrote: |
If the BOC are only going to only send skiers with a "realistic" chance of bringing home medals, are they not going against the Olympic ideal
I am gutted we aren´t sending a male speed racer, TJ and Dougie must be devastated.
Plugboy, my heart literally breaks for you both, so much hard work, time and financial investment and you get a kick in the balls like this, it´s absolutely ludicrous. |
+1
not really encouraging for any up and coming youngsters either!!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Its an absolute disgrace, and as you say no logic to it at all. Both the Nordic and speed teams have been doing great work with little or no public funding and while I think it is a great outcome for the cross country guys I can see no reason at all the BOC hasn't rewarded the Alpine guys even greater success equally.
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Sorry, I know I'm being really slow… What reason did the BOC give for only using 2/7 of the alpine slots? Presumably not a financial one as Plugboy has pointed out they are self-funding through donation and sponsorship. Presumably not to do purely with medal chances as Plugboy has pointed out that the 4/5 cross country skiers are in the same boat. They must have given the guys a reason for their non-selection v selection of the cross country skiers? Or do they just say 'no' without any course of questioning or appeal?
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You know it makes sense.
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Plugboy,
That would be because 4 xc skiers met the BOA Olympic qualification standard (which was much harder than the IOC A standard). How many of the alpine skiers met the BOA Olympic qualification standard? Did Chemmy? How many met the IOC A standard?
And the FIS list on the squad facebook feed:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=592992600773710&set=a.307727442633562.74331.272969302776043&type=1&theater
puts Mussy 29th in the sprint, Posy 95th in the sprint, Callum 466th distance and Andrew Y 115th in the sprint standings. Its also worth noting the numbers actively skiing in xc compared to the alpine events.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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miranda,
With xc the BOA set a qualification standard (harder than the IOC A standard) and have taken those athletes that met the BOA qualification standard. Fortunately there were enough quota places for all the xc athletes who met the standard to be awarded places.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dave Horsley, thanks, that makes sense…. although why do the BOA set standards much harder than the IOC for athletes that are - so it seems from these threads - pretty much self-funded?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Eddy the Eagle effect.
As I understand it the BOA want the athletes to have a realistic prospect of coming in the top 1/3 (I think) of the field and the FIS point qualification standard was calculated to that end. Don't ask me how, I was told it was a complicated calculation. We (xc) had one other athlete meet the IOC A standard I think (I haven't checked the FIS list), Fi Hughes has distance FIS points under 100 which meets the IOC qualification standard, but not the BOA standard. A couple of other athletes were close to the A standard with FIS points just over 100.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dave Horsley Obviously I knew who Eddie Edwards was, but wasn't sure what you meant by the "effect". Wikipedia (so of course might be inaccurate) gives this:
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The widespread attention that Edwards received in Calgary turned into a large embarrassment for the ski jumping establishment. Many athletes and officials felt that he was "making a mockery" of the sport…
The Eddie "The Eagle" Rule
In response to the Edwards phenomenon, in 1990, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) instituted what became known as the Eddie the Eagle Rule, which requires Olympic hopefuls to compete in international events and place in the top 30 percent or the top 50 competitors, whichever is fewer.
Edwards consequently failed to qualify for the 1992 Winter Olympics in Albertville, France and the 1994 Games in Lillehammer, Norway. |
Plugboy has said that there were 15 skiers that made the IOC 'A' standard, which I take to mean that the Eddie the Eagle rule had been applied and they passed. Or have I got that wrong? It seems to me that it's pretty harsh to block self-funded athletes who clearly do take the sport seriously, are not making a mockery of it by any stretch of the imagination, and who have passed the IOC standard… 
Either way, none of this should take away from the achievements of the xc team, and I wish them all the best and am looking forward to watching them compete on the telly.
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The IOC have two standards. The harder A standard and a much easier B standard. The B standard is the minimum standard for countries with no good athletes (in alpine no athletes in the top 500) who are then allowed to send a single male and female athlete who have reached the B standard. Its the standard under which Vanessa Mae is entering. AFAIK Eddie Edwards met the B standard for ski jumping and it was the BOA not the IOC that kept him out of subsequent Olympics.
For xc, 5 athletes made the IOC A standard (I think from looking at the FIS points list issued 21st Jan) and the 4 who were picked made the harder BOA qualification standard.
I don't know about alpine, but if 15 made the IOC A standard then its criminal that more didn't go, but then its down the Alpine committee at the BSS who didn't argue harder with the BOA about the UK qualification standard. Personally I thought the BOA qualification standard set for xc was hard and I don't understand why they didn't just use the IOC A standard and fill the quota places with those athletes who met the A standard and only apply stricter standards if there was more qualified athletes than quota places. Similarly with alpine why do BOA want a harder standard than the IOC A standard?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave Horsley wrote: |
| I don't understand why they didn't just use the IOC A standard and fill the quota places with those athletes who met the A standard and only apply stricter standards if there was more qualified athletes than quota places. Similarly with alpine why do BOA want a harder standard than the IOC A standard? |
The only possible reason could be funding, surely? But from what I've understood, everyone's having to self-fund anyway…. Must have been gutting for your 5th athlete to make the A standard and not be allowed to take up that 5th slot.
Maybe I'm missing something but, otherwise, it does seem to be "a kick in the balls" as kooky says; a case of your own country not taking your commitment and proven ability seriously enough to even let you compete, and somewhat going against the spirit of the Olympics.
I'm glad I looked at this thread. I clearly don't know much about the subject and would no doubt have made some unfair assumptions about the ability of our winter athletes otherwise.
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I'm not sure of the funding situation at the Olympics, how much is paid for by BOA and how much is self funded/by the athlete.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Plugboy wrote: |
There are only 15 GB Cross Country athletes on the FIS world ranking list and 4 are going to Sochi. Thats over 25%!
There are 173 Alpine athletes on the FIS world ranking list and 2 are going to Sochi. That's just over 1%!!
How is it a fair and level playing field to GB skiers to get to the Olympics?
An Alpine skier who is ranked 48th in the world on the Olympic list is not going when 3 Cross Country skiers who are not even in the top 100 & 1 not even top 500 are going.
Are they anymore of a medal prospect then TJ or Dougie? Definitly not!!!
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Let me start by saying that I think BOA & BSS are wrong in not sending more Alpine skiers to Sochi but I assume only two met the selection criteria. However having a go at the Cross-Country skiers who are going & implying they had an easier selection isn't helping your case & is in fact wrong. Apologies if you aren't actually saying that. Dave Horsley has explained how the Cross-Country selection worked & how comparing World rankings in the different disciplines is not comparing like with like. The BSS selection criteria was considerably harder that the FIS 'A' criteria. The cross-country skiers did not have an easy criteria & in fact two potential team members just missed out on selection. Cross-country had up to 5 slots at Sochi & if it was up to me I would have sent 5.
What Cross-Country did about 5 years ago was develop performance pathways (largely based on FIS points) for all our athletes which showed where they needed to be in order to stand a chance of a podium finish at a World or Olympic championships when they reached the idealised peak age for cross-country skier - their late 20's. That is why BOA sent 3 young c/c skiers to Vancouver. I believe Andrew Young at 17 was the youngest ever male c/c skier at an Olympics. Callum Smith also qualified for Vancouver but we only had three slots, so he missed out that time but not this time. This "scientific" approach was enough to convince BSS & BOA that cross-country had a serious chance of medalling at a future games.
Although they are unlikely to medal at these Games there is an outside chance. A medal in 2018 is the target.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 24-01-14 0:45; edited 1 time in total
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I really don't undestand why Emily Sarsfield has been left out, as far as I can see she is higher in the world rankings than everyone who is going!
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FAQ
