 Poster: A snowHead
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I am going out to la tania next week. I have been looking at the piste maps and trying to plan our routes preferably staying on blues. Now I don't know if I was dreaming but I think I recll somewhere they saying that creux was changing to blue but I have hunted for a new piste map with the new grading and can't seem to find it. Can anyone tell me is it now possible for someone who prefers blue to ski down this run and which run is it, is it creux or lac creux they were changing the grading to? How difficult is it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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def. now marked as blue - the slope hasn't changed since it was a red - but it is a lovely gentle slope, wide and simple - a couple of uphills where you need a bit of speed - but really nice - you can take the blue path back into Courchevel, but better going on down t to the Marmottes lift...
Alasdair
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| Quote: |
Can anyone tell me is it now possible for someone who prefers blue to ski down this run
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Strange question - if it's been regraded it hasn't actually got easier and it won't make any difference to anyones ability to ski it surely???
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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it can make a big psychological difference to some skiers...
which is why I only ever take people on blues / reds and dark blues (between blue & red - honest!)
Alasdair
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I had read somewhere that they had actually flattened out the steeper bits, but I cant remember where I had read that. Thanks all for the info, its just for cruising about with the kids (but the blues are mainly for me because they would ski black if they could!) and yes akirk it is quite psychological. Its not that I couldnt manage a red but I wouldnt go down an unknown red without knowing if it was a difficult red or a cruisy red. thanks Richard that is really helpful and much appreciated.
jedster, if you did think that was a strange question, rather than question the reason why I am asking (for which I have explained), wouldnt the logical thing to do would be to think to oneself "hmm what a strange question", then move on to the next thread about something you dont find strange rather than trying to make me look stupid and call me out? If you dont have anything constructive or helpful to say it is usually a best plan to say nothing at all! 
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I skied it over the New Year. As far as I can tell, the top (which is the only steepish bit) is at the same pitch as ever, but it is lovely and wide. The hardest bit of the run is the bit before the start as you come down from Saulire, you can cut off the initial part of the descent by taking the long way round on more of a cat track, but you still have to ski the last bit which can be mogully later in the day. Definitely a run to do first thing and when there are no crowds. But don't be put off, it's so lovely! There are many blue runs in the 3V that are harder to ski because they are narrower, or tend to get icy or bumpy.
Hopefully next week there won't be many people about in which case it'll be gorgeous. I second the vote for skiing to the very bottom in the trees, as the last bit is both quieter and beautiful!
Other runs that may suit a cruisey blue piste enthusiast:
Courchevel 1650-all the blue runs off the Pyramides drag lift (but probably you should avoid the Roc Mugnier red back en route to 1850-take the green).
I also think a confident blues only skier would enjoy Chapelets-a red, but really nice rolling piste and the top half of Rochers is a lovely little rolling piste between the trees and rocks. All the runs into 1650 itself are great, wide and good snow.
If you have a 3 Valleys pass, a really lovely long descent-go to top of Saulire, then drop over towards Meribel (not Mottaret-avoid that as it can often be very hard to get to the bottom on Aigle), and follow all the blues keeping right, then head towards the Altiport on the green run Blanchot, and down to Meribel Village along Lapin. A good spot for lunch or coffee is the Lodge du Village on the other side of the roundabout about 50m from the lift at the bottom.
From there, if you want to get into Meribel proper, a neat dodge to avoid some of the harder blue bits down to Meribel, take the Golf chair up, and then at the top of the lift, turn right and you will see a little rope tow. take that and follow the path into Meribel and the signs for Chaudanne. You can also get to that more directly from La Tania by taking the Lanches chair up from La T, ski one of the the blues down and then down the Blanchot / Altiport run to the bottom of the Altiport chair and the rope tow is on your left between the 2 chairlifts.
If you want to get to St Martin (my particular fave bit of the 3V), there are a couple of options. Tougnette one and 2 from the bottom of Meribel get you to the top. Pramint is a red, but is lovely and mostly cruisy. Or...from the Chaudanne take the Roc De Fer and Olympic chair. At the top turn left and then take the blue Grand Duc, turning right onto Verdet part way down. It's a lovely run (when it's open-it faces the sun and was officially not open in Jan, but I think it would be now) and will be REALLY quiet.
The blue Choucas on the way back to Meribel from above St Martin is often quiet, wide and lovely and Gelinotte is probably a better blue to get you to the bottom in Meribel.
This isn't an exhaustive list! Have fun!
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| polo99 wrote: |
| Its not that I couldnt manage a red but I wouldnt go down an unknown red without knowing if it was a difficult red or a cruisy red. |
a lot depends on snow conditions and other skiers though - an empty slope is always easier, and more snow tends to make it simpler - I have skied Saulire (the other big slope back into Courchevel from there) as it is normally (toughish entry and then nice red) with low snow when the entry becomes a vertical face on which you can not stop... so you might wish to send the kids down first to check out the slopes!
Alasdair
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Thanks perty I will definitely take a look at those runs. I also wanted to try Jerusalem. We have 3 valleys pass
Akirk im a bit worried about the run what you said you cant stop. Saulire? My worst nightmare is the kids going over the edge by not being able to stop or see. Nit really sure what you mean. Also you know the run that has the really narrow ledge you ski down where it is a sheer drop either side? There is a way round this? That would be worse than a nightmare. Thanks for the advice.im hoping its going to snow today as forecast
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I suspect Perty is talking about Saulire in that first part, Creux is wide and cruisy and not particularly steep, Saulire has a pretty steep and quite a narrow entrance and does get bumpy and icy, but as he mentioned there is a track that goes around the side to cut out the worst of the top section. If you look at the Saulire webcam you can see the steeper entrance and the track around the back/side.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 20-01-14 13:37; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| akirk wrote: |
it can make a big psychological difference to some skiers...
which is why I only ever take people on blues / reds and dark blues (between blue & red - honest!) |
Hahaha.
I've always thought it a bit silly that it's almost impossible to distinguish between blue and black poles when wearing goggles...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jerusalem is a must! Can be a bit intimidating (ie mogulled)at the top if not bashed overnight, but after that sheer joy all round!  . Never busy either, so lots of room for manoeuvre. My fave run ever!
polo99, not sure if you are thinking about the right run when you mention sheer drop either side- that would possibly be the Grand Couloir, and don't worry, you do NOT have to ski this (am not ashamed to say I have never skied it-too scary!).
Combe de Saulire is different. No sheer drops off any narrow bit, it's just a steep sided bowl at the very top, and then bottoms out and goes left a bit to a nice cruisy red. It's visible from the top and no one can fall off the mountain! You can avoid the steepest bit with a bit of a cat track on one side-though I am not sure in my mind whether you can each the track from the Saulire cable car side of the top, or whether you have to be at the top of the Vizelle bubble to use it. If you at at all nervous, especially at the end of the day on you way back from the Meribel side, I think I would avoid it, take the easier descent of Creux, turn left off Creux half way down, and head past the altiport. Then, as long as you keep left whenever you get the chance, mostly along a bit of a road, you can follow the contour of the hill and get to the Coqs chair which gets you up above La T for the run home.
You can also get back to La T via the Loze chair from Meribel, but to reach the blue runs back to the village, you have a bit of an uphill poling session at the end of the Col de la Loze blue for about 50m. You may find the red down to mid station above La T a bit steep, and it can get hard. The blues to the bottom are lovely, as is the green run.
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If you dont have anything constructive or helpful to say it is usually a best plan to say nothing at all!
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Fair enough. To helpfully answer the question you didn't ask - Creux has always been one of the easiest red runs in the Trois Vallees - broad and steady-angled, no real steep sections or intimidating drops at piste edge. It's recommended to more cautious skiers. One minor caveat is that Creux des tend to get more sun than most Courchevel runs so at times the snow can be poorer than on, say, Combe de Saulire. C d S is excellent. As others have said it is fairly steep for one short section near the top but the run out is good. AFter that, it has many of the characteristics of Creux - broad, moderate angle, no intimidating drops but with better snow. Both can be rather busy at peak times but are so broad that it is never carnage.
Jerusalem and the runs above 1650 would also qualify but Creux is perhaps the most friendly.
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You know it makes sense.
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C de S I recall as having a somewhat daunting lip to get into the bowl?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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C de S I recall as having a somewhat daunting lip to get into the bowl?
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think you are referring to what I described as
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it is fairly steep for one short section near the top but the run out is good
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Poster: A snowHead
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polo99, Creux is a lovely run, and nothing dangerous for your kids. But I too can strongly recommend all the runs above 1650. Lovely family friendly easy skiing. The journey to 1650 from La Tania is a really nice one too (ski to Biollay chair above 1850 then ski across to and alongside the airport - basically heading right all the time). It will give your kids a sense of travelling a good distance too. If your kids are tired at the end of the day the green all the way back to La Tania is really nice so there is no worry of having to save some energy. If all else fails you can always get the bus back from 1650 to La Tania.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 20-01-14 21:04; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jedster wrote: |
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C de S I recall as having a somewhat daunting lip to get into the bowl?
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think you are referring to what I described as
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it is fairly steep for one short section near the top but the run out is good
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Quite possibly. Somewhat daunting describes how I found it when I hadn't done much skiing... not merely fairly steep.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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and also, from the information above from people who know it well, it becomes much more daunting in poor snow conditions (like lots of runs!). There are plenty of nicer cruising runs in the area - I had no trouble finding plenty, even at a time of poor snow cover, without doing the daunting ones!
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Indeed it can be daunting Pam, In fact being the horrible dad I am I took eldest junior on it as the last run of the day a couple of years ago.
She had been getting overly confident and had started showing off about skiing this black run and this red run. I used it as lesson in colour means very little unless you understand the conditions.
Whilst the intention was that it was a lesson, I didn't plan on having her in tears halfway down the entrance bowl, and then having to help her sideslip down the boilerplate for about 10 metres before both the surface and pitch eased up.
Boy did I get an ear bashing from her and mum but my point was made.
C de S lovely run when it's nice, but beware the top when it's not.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hmm glad I saw this before going next week, so Creux will now be even more crowded...
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shawaszk, welcome to snowHeads 
More than likely and, more than likely that the less "gifted" will probably treat it with less respect/more arrogance (over-confidence) than when it was a red.
It may be a wide slope with a steady pitch, but one can accelerate incredibly quickly, from experience.
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BTW, have a great week... 
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I skied Creux a couple of times earlier this month.
It's still a red.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All this chat about blues and reds. If anyone fancies a fairly easy black in Courchevel, take a look at Suisses and see if it has been pisted (the Suisses chair goes over the piste). If it has been groomed there are few easier blacks. Be careful to ensure that you enter it by skiing down Marmottes and then turning left - the mogul field entries are not for the faint hearted! We have taken a number of skiers who "never do blacks" down a groomed Suisses so they can tick that particular box. But beware, if Suisses has not been groomed it can be mogulled and icy.
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
I skied Creux a couple of times earlier this month.
It's still a red. |
Intriguing - it was marked as blue when we were skiing it in December... have they changed it back?
C de S - is my favourite run anywhere - the top once you are used to it is fine - but can be scary if unsure - however there are three entry points - central tends to be steepest / left (from Meribel side) is a little less steep though can get mogul-full quite quickly... / right has a path allowing you to avoid the top bowl and enter at the start of the nicer bit...
I would also agree about Suisses - lovely black - and for the more adventuours there is sometimes a cornice over the mogul field allowing you to jump onto it 
Alasdair
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Creux was blue last week, one of our group used it a lot, although it does still have some steep pitches. Telephone was our easy black of choice for the novices Suisses is lovely though - favourite run home!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Mr Pieholeo wrote:
I skied Creux a couple of times earlier this month.
It's still a red.
Intriguing - it was marked as blue when we were skiing it in December... have they changed it back?
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I think he is saying that although it has been officially regraded as a blue that it is still in effect a red run in difficulty. I spoke to a ski instructor in Courchevel who said it had been regraded to offer a blue down from the top of the Saulire lift. i.e. the regrading is all about marketing.
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The reps (3 yr veteran) and other guests (been going to courchevel for years) in our chalet seemed to think creux had been altered to make it easier, and aside for a notably steep pitch it did seems like a blue not a red.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
The reps (3 yr veteran) and other guests (been going to courchevel for years) in our chalet seemed to think creux had been altered to make it easier, and aside for a notably steep pitch it did seems like a blue not a red.
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The instructor was obviously a cynic  I will have to check it out when I am there next week.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think the instructor is right too btw - they did it for a 'blue run back' to avoid putting off beginners and families, but the rumour does seem to be that they did also try and make it easier to avoid total carnage at eod!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| akirk wrote: |
with low snow when the entry becomes a vertical face on which you can not stop... so you might wish to send the kids down first to check out the slopes!
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Very true, I gave it a miss in December when it was just ice and stones, but it's been nice when I've skied it in the past.
Creux is indeed a lovely run, and not a difficult red.
Pramint and Jerusalem are my favourite runs in the 3Vs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have been skiing the 3v for many years and I reckon that Creux has always been an easy red - wide, and rolling with plenty of options of places to stop - it always seems variable how a resort classifies slopes, but having it as a blue is no big surprise - whether they have changed it or not, it is certainly skiable by those who like blues and are scared of reds, so from a psychological point of view maybe better to have it as a blue... it is a lot of fun though with plenty of snow as you can some in off-piste from the path from the lifts which is a nice bowl onto the slope...
mind you out there in December Rob had us mainly skiing on Greens
Alasdair
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skied it today for the first time as a blue and I can tell you it is exactly the same as it was in it's red era... lovely first tracks on softish well pisted snow... yum...
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skimottaret, as suspected but good to have confirmation. As has been mentioned on this thread and as I and others have suggested on other threads creux and cm de s are probably graded as such (now blue and always red) to encourage cross valley traffic rather than their actual piste rating as a view across their overall piste difficulty.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes, what I meant was it hasn't changed, and it's the high end of a blue if blue at all. I'd grade it red, and tell 'blue run skiers' that it's a run to be attempted on good groomed snow and fresh legs.
It's red, basically. Deffo a marketing thing.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| skied it today for the first time as a blue and I can tell you it is exactly the same as it was in it's red era... lovely first tracks on softish well pisted snow... yum... |
Thought you were slacking - in the bar - in December
Alasdair
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Hi guys, new to the Forum. I've just done Creux this morning and would definitely say that it is not 'easy' as the piste maps catgorise it...I get what people are saying about it being marketing and an 'easy way down' from Vizelle/Saulire, but shouldn't people just accept that when you get up to 2300ft there isn't really gonna be an 'easy' way down? I mean, it seems to me to be a negative effect: if less-experienced skiers see that it is now a blue, they'll believe they can attempt it and find themselves on a pretty steep slope at the start - clogging it up and discouraging them as learning skiers...there are steep and side-sloped sections, which when crowded can be difficult not easy...maybe I'm being dramatic, maybe it's because it's early season and the snow (the little there is) isn't great yet, or maybe it's because I hold Creux close to me as my favourite run in Courchevel, but I just don't think it's a blue.
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I did the top twice last week. You see a few people struggle a bit but its not too bad and wide so you can do long turns if needed. Rest of it is definitely blue imho and fun to get a bit of speed up on.
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