 Poster: A snowHead
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I have been amused and interested by the breadth and range of comments on the self rank your skiing thread in The Piste. I could also be easily demoralised by the apparent progression of some people vs. my own hard won fight to look half competent down a red (about 15 weeks on snow and a decent smattering of lessons and still not there). I find my self thinking OK, you can get down it, but is it skiing? Both in relation to my own ability and in relation to the descriptions given by some others. It's just an idle thought process and I dare say there are some naturally gifted people that can ski in two weeks, but in reality how many weeks on verage should it take for the average sofa based one holiday a year punter to get to mid levels (intermediate) on that IOS scale?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, I think you think too much. It's a holiday first and foremost (for those of us unlucky enough not to live there of course). The main question is are you enjoying yourself?
I've seen everything from people who are parallel on red runs within a week to people who have been skiing 20 years plus still pootling about on blue runs using stem turns. There is no hard and fast rule, people are different and learn at different paces. The main thing that I think holds some people back is fear and lack of fitness.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I can get down pretty much anything. That doesn't get me any further up any competence ladders, though.
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how many weeks on verage should it take for the average sofa based one holiday a year punter to get to mid levels (intermediate) on that IOS scale?
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No idea. 'Sofa-based' are going to take longer for sure than young, fit, athletic people, with reasonable balance and the odd bit of tuition.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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'Getting down' something is most definitely skiing.
c.f. someone who can't ski, who wouldn't be able to 'get down' it, except probably by falling over and being killed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mr Pieholeo, I like that as a concept 
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It's easy to over-think (and over-care). I've never considered myself a good skier, but once a year a so, I think at the bottom of a slope "wow, you got that down that matter-of-factly, whereas 5 years ago you'd have been quaking with fear". And the type of slope that applies to has become steeper, icier, bumpier, more treed, further from the pistes, etc. This key is to ski a lot, take lots of lessons, guided jaunts, etc … but, above all, to enjoy the journey. 
Oh, and to answer the question, it is skiing! You've got to push your comfort zone and, when you do, a video of it is unlikely to be pretty. The key is to gradually expand the comfort zone.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 13-01-14 14:48; edited 1 time in total
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Megamum, who cares as long as it's fun?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Arno wrote: |
http://www.noahhowell.com/2010/11/plinko/
Is this even skiing? Yes, because we have skis on [/endthread] |
bof, that is descend-ing. Adding an ing to ski implies that the skis are used in a verbal sense for their intended purpose, which is to slide on snow. Putting skis on your feet to abseil and side step down a cliff is not ski-ing.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| Megamum, who cares as long as it's fun? |
This. Skiing is a journey to be enjoyed, not a destination to be reached.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's like, say, my 4 year old. He's not very good at walking, compared to me.
It's not that what he does "isn't walking", it's just that he's a clumsy idiot who trips over his own feet and bumps into lamp posts and sometimes shits his pants and cries and can't tell the difference between a seagull and a pigeon.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The hot chocolate or bombardino at the end of the day is the destination. Or a good restaurant for lunch. Or both.
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andy, +∞ 
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You know it makes sense.
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Gosh, just realised I've been playing rugby for years with lots of 4 year olds.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum, seems lots of people think they are better than they are.
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Poster: A snowHead
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blahblahblah, yup
and blokes tend to overestimate, but girls underestimate.
lessons last year, and all the girls in the class 1 "below" ours, moved up to the "faster" group (their description of the class) the next day. so either they under quoted their ability or they fancied the instructor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, I have been skiing since the 70`s some years not at all and some years for 3 - 4 weeks, I am still only happy on snowy wide pistes in pleasant sunshine. Its many years since I even felt the urge to tackle anything overly challenging! However, I am very happy with that. Of course I would like to be more proficient and I would like to find the most extreme black a mere amusing escapade but I am not prepared to put in the effort to making it so. I want to enjoy my holidays, to relax and simply exist in that quiet moment you can find in all but the busiest resorts.
My sons on the other hand, all in their 20`s, having skied since before they can remember, and perhaps a little because they are male, all want the challenge, the excitement of something new and relish the difficult!
Every ones progress will be different and the reasons for going skiing must be myriad, but so long as you enjoy it, keep on doing it! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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After about six weeks skiing, I finally managed my first black run last week, the Hochmais in Hochkonig, Austria. Conditions weren't great, it was a bit icy in some parts and heavy in others, but we'd had a good day and felt ready for it.
The next morning, it snowed a little. We were joined by a friend of a friend (in his early 20s), on the first day of his first trip. His only previous was a 'learn to ski in a day' course at Tamworth. We took him to the kids' slope and he looked really controlled (lucky git), so we asked if he fancied a look at the slopes: we had an option to take him back down in the bubble if he felt it too steep. On arrival, he took a look at the red Hochmais run, said it looked fine, and we set off at a reasonably sedate pace with him matching us turn for turn. He fell a couple of times, but did everything we recommended/suggested. About halfway down the run, where the red splits to a red and a black, we did the aforementioned black. And, again, he did it with no fuss, no fear, no dramas, just a few low speed slides and spills. He stayed with us for the whole day after that: for anybody that knows the Kings Tour in the Hochkonig, we skied from Hinterthal to Mulbach and back. According to the data from our passes logged through skiline.cc, we were out for 429 minutes, skied 32kms and managed over 5700 vertical metres. Really, really impressed. I think he just had the right combination of strength and natural talent a real keenness and willingness to listen and learn.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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twodogs, I think that tale is the driver to the question. OK, your friend may have been having fun - he may even have been a rare? naturally gifted individual who had developed real skills in a short time. Was he skiing or was he just getting down by dint of the size of his balls? i.e. does having the bravado to throw yourself down a hill on two planks mean that you can ski? At my level (where I will still avoid a black, but have been working on technique to get there) am I being outskied in terms of ability/technique by someone like your friend or am I only being outskied in terms of bravado?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I've seen everything from people who are parallel on red runs within a week to people who have been skiing 20 years plus still pootling about on blue runs using stem turns. There is no hard and fast rule, people are different and learn at different paces. The main thing that I think holds some people back is fear and lack of fitness.
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Exactly. Like some people swim all their lives and just potter around with bit of breast stroke and a bit of back stroke and never quite master the breathing for crawl (that describes me) and others swim beautifully (like my daughter in law, who also teaches swimming but is really, really, scared of skiing). But yes, it's all "swimming".
Megamum, from your description of your progress you could easily by outskied, in terms of technique, by someone who has skied far less than you. And that's certainly true for me, too. But why are you so bothered about it? When you go to the sea, or a swimming pool, are you looking at everyone else wondering how "good" they are and why some people swim so much better than you do? I look at people who swim a lot better than I do and decide they have worked harder at it and/or have more natural ability.
One member of my brother in law's family, a first class cricketer (wicket keeper) had one two-hour private lesson, having never even seen snow before, and could do one-footed turns on both legs the following day. He has scarcely skied since that week, but if he had that chance, and had had some good lessons, he'd be far better than I am, very quickly. He is a gifted natural athlete and I'm not.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w,
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Megamum, from your description of your progress you could easily by outskied, in terms of technique, by someone who has skied far less than you. And that's certainly true for me, too. But why are you so bothered about it? |
+1
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Steilhang wrote: |
| Megamum, who cares as long as it's fun? |
This. Skiing is a journey to be enjoyed, not a destination to be reached. |
+1
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pam w, OK, it's me, I have always been Jack of all Trades, but have never mastered anything. I am too competitive and would love to truly master something, but have never done so and at my age that is not likely to change.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I am too competitive and would love to truly master something
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You never master skiing, that's the beauty and frustration all in one!
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the_doc, add in the fact that I am also a perfectionist and it's a ruddy recipe for disaster! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| twodogs, I think that tale is the driver to the question. OK, your friend may have been having fun - he may even have been a rare? naturally gifted individual who had developed real skills in a short time. Was he skiing or was he just getting down by dint of the size of his balls? i.e. does having the bravado to throw yourself down a hill on two planks mean that you can ski? At my level (where I will still avoid a black, but have been working on technique to get there) am I being outskied in terms of ability/technique by someone like your friend or am I only being outskied in terms of bravado? |
It's an interesting one, alright. Maybe you're actually being outskied by a psychological barrier to your own ability. Do you fall often, or fear falling, or is it more a question of a fear of steep turns, or maybe losing control? For me, it was, and still is, the idea of falling a long way down a slope, that kept me away from the steeper stuff until recently.
I fall firmly into the 'grafter with no natural ability but I love it and won't give up' category and, provided that I'm enjoying myself and causing no danger to others, I'm happy. If I progress a bit further each time, so much the better. I have no real desire for off piste, heli-skiing, back country or even moguls. I'm still not great, I can carve a bit on blues, but I have a dicky knee which tends to give way without warning, leading to the front right of my right ski submarining and throwing me over the handlebars. But I've figured out how to minimise the risk of that happening and, usually, how to fall uphill rather than downhill. Actually, SpyderJon explained that one to me, and it absolutely transformed my experience of skiing. I prefer reds to blues because the dicky knee is a lot less likely to surprise me by giving me a beautifully carved edge on the wrong side of the ski! I'm okay on icy runs now and the next stage is hopefully to be okay in deeper powder (if we get the right conditions). After that, I'll be happy in the knowledge that I should be able to pick a resort at random and be okay, rather than picking one based on the number of blues and reds. :0)
Back to the jammy lad. We were reluctant to take him out to start with for a number of reasons. Aside from his obvious inexperience, and the fact that, selfishly, we really didn't want to lose our last skiing day, we didn't want to feel responsible for the damage he could potentially do to himself or others, including ourselves. We debated it with him the evening before and concluded that we'd just go to the kids' slope, give him some safety pointers and spend an hour or so with him before presumably leaving him to it. The next morning, it became quickly apparent that it wasn't a billy big balls bravado show. His turns were very carefully controlled from the offset and his speed regulated. Nothing fazed the boy at all: his first lift was a six man with him and five Germans. He just did exactly what we'd instructed beforehand and was fine. Took him on the slope, explained the importance of picking his line, identifying if he had a strong/weak side and picking his route accordingly, how to look at what others ahead were doing and to be prepared to take evasive action and to commit to the turn and to turn around his pole and, to our absolute surprise, he just did it. Exactly to the script. I'm no teacher, but maybe the fact that I'd learned relatively recently meant that a lot of the pitfalls and pointers were still fresh in my mind and that I got those over to him. It was still him that had to do the hard work, though.
Was it skiing? I'm still not sure. By the early afternoon, it wasn't easy to pick him out amongst other, presumably more experienced, skiers on the slope. There was no leaning back on the skis and being scared of the turn, no using his backside as a rudder, no excess speed exiting his turns and, hand on heart, at no point did we feel he was out of control. I would say that he's now probably in a really good position to take lessons and to learn how to ski, and to ski properly. I'd wager that he'll be better than me next time we see him.
Maybe it's a bit like learning to drive. Some people pass first time, others make many attempts before passing but, in the fullness of time, it levels out a bit and most people spend most of their time well within their acquired limits.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't think I could enjoy skiing if I was bothered that other people got good at it quicker than I did. I am not competitive, though - never have been. I am most definitely not a perfectionist, either, in anything. "Good enough" is good enough for me and I am "good enough" at a reasonable range of things - skiing, sailing, cooking, being a mother, speaking French, speaking Italian. I love learning but really am not bothered about being properly good at anything. I'm afraid I never subscribed to the "always do your best at everything" mantra, and never tried to drill that into my kids. I suspect that for most ordinary mortals it's a recipe for feeling like a perpetual failure - for a few genuine "high fliers" it might be different. I know that there's always somebody better and it doesn't bother me one jot.
My expert skier son is not remotely competitive, either. His big brother is very competitive but never had anything like the same athletic ability. When my son went out with top qualified ski instructors on their day off he felt like a beginner but he also felt hugely priveleged and learnt a lot. It would have been stupid if he'd felt disappointed not to be as good as them!
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"always do your best at everything"
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Ah, so there is the difference, that is what was drummed into me. I'm Jack of all trades (there is actually very little that has totally defeated me though skiing came close), but I can't think of anything I do as well as I'd want to.
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You know it makes sense.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Arno wrote: |
http://www.noahhowell.com/2010/11/plinko/
Is this even skiing? Yes, because we have skis on [/endthread] |
bof, that is descend-ing. Adding an ing to ski implies that the skis are used in a verbal sense for their intended purpose, which is to slide on snow. Putting skis on your feet to abseil and side step down a cliff is not ski-ing. |
you guys are elitists 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum, I think I can honestly say that I've never done my best at anything. Lazy cow.  If I put more effort into any of my activities I could do better, but I'm quite happy being mediocre at a big range of stuff!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, well I definitely think you are the very best on SH's at being overly critical and overly analytical of your own skiing. You always read like you must really struggle to enjoy a skiing holiday. Please chill and relax about your own ability and maybe you will one day surprise yourself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think skiing is down to three things; fitness, latent ability and mind.
When I learnt to ski I was reasonably fit, I have good balance and proprioception both naturally and from other sports and am 'averagely' brave, whatever that means.
This meant that in my learning group, I would place myself in the top half but never the top spot in terms of ability/technique. In 'real' life, I like knowing the full story and being organised, and my approach to skiing has been the same. I like taking lessons, I like learning the phrases, the techniques, and tinkering with my skills. I try to do this while pushing myself a little outside my comfort zone each time, usually most successfully achieved when under instruction and/or sking with those of higher ability than me.
A few years back, I can remember tackling a mogulled off piste area with an instructor and looking at him as though he was mad. I would never have even gone near it on my own! Now while I faffed and fumbled my way down it, I grew in confidence. Although it was not pretty, I was aware of how I was improving and my pushing myself in a safe way, it sped up my progress.
Another story. After skiing for only a couple of weeks myself, I went on a group holiday with friends and my beginner sister. After a wobbley start for my sister due to a rather lazy instructor, my sister made good progress. I would say her natural ability and fitness was simialr to when I first learnt. Her 'bravery' can be fiercely stubborn in getting down a tough slope, or fiercely stubborn in not going down what looks like a tough section. She can dwell on things, and over think.
Anyway, at the end of the week, she felt that she wanted to try a few red pistes, as she was comfortabley in control on the blues and didn't want to build up 'piste colour fear'. She skied a few red runs with me, in control although not pretty and loved it.
Now, a friend on the same trip had been skiing for years and had never ventured off the blue pistes. This was fine and had never bothered her until she got 'overtaken' by a beginner in terms of perceived ability (my sister). My friend had a smooth, controlled technique, ok fitness and balance but below average 'bravery', prefering safe to scary. Anyway, she kept asking us if she was capable of skiing a red, as in her head she had assumed she was not good enough. When we told her that a red piste is not very different to a blue and that her skills were good enough, only then did she feel the push needed for her to trya red. Which she did without incident, it was basically a none event.
This same friend had a similar issues with blacks. On a different holiday some years later, we looked up at some pistes and I asked her if she fancied a particular one after lunch. I knew it was gentle black (maroon if you will) although she was not aware and just thought it a red. when she looked at it, she gauged it to be well within her ability (which it was) but would never have attempted it if she knew it was a black (lack of self belief). Only at the top of the lift, at the start of the piste did she notice the black poles and had a mental wobble (there was a green route option availabe from the top, which actually intersected the black a few times too, giving several bail out options). She gritted her teeth and headed down the black, and actually skied it better than about half the group, who would have said they were strong intermediates, happy on anything.
In summary I love skiing, the scenery, the motion. It can be both calming or exhilirating. I try to get better because that is what I enjoy, although I have to do it in small methodical steps. I appreciate that I had a good starting platform in terms of fitness, balance, etc, so it must be an even greater achievement if you are someone starting from a lower starting point. In the end, I doubt most of us will be as good as we want to be, but does this really matter? Does it matter that someone can ski better than you after less time on snow? Do you ski down a slope and notice how many people you are skiing better than? I don't! I try to just enjoy the snow. It is you against (or with) the mountain, no one else matters.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jirac18, ski holidays are a complete change of life for me, that is why they are enjoyable as a holiday. I have a childhood passion for the snow that they satisfy and I thrive on the just being there. The actual skiing? Well, that is a challenge rather than something I always enjoy. Unlike many of you I didn't try to learn to ski for me. I learned to ski for the kids so they would be able to ski (they were offered the opportunity to learn and I was able to let them do so) and initially I was terrified of it. I am still the weak link of our ski group and I'd love to be better perhaps as good as my ski partner would be nice. I enjoy it when sun is in the sky, the surface is soft corduroy hero snow and I am cruising an easy red or blue, at all other times, enjoyment is not as high on my agenda as self preservation. However, I love to be there and be part of it all. I used to watch Ski Sunday as a kid and never thought I would aspire to be part of the 'ski set' for me it is a privilege to be there, I owe it to myself and to my kids to try and do it as well as I can.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Does it matter that someone can ski better than you after less time on snow?
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No, because if it did, it would be a recipe for constant misery.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Left to myself I tend not to ski in horrible conditions. But today, with three dead keen kids (one of whom only started yesterday, with a one hour private lesson in the "garden") I spent a long time looping round a beginner draglift, in very heavy snow. They were so brave - especially the little lass who only started yesterday and who could soon get up the draglift, and off at the top, and ski down the nursery slope under 100% control. My assistance was rarely needed. Such a satisfying afternoon - the two who had done a bit more, and for whom the slope was a bit putsy, were persuaded to have a go at skiing backwards and were also v pleased with themselves.
Such a satisfying afternoon - it's all about sharing the love, isn't it? 
I don't feel I "owe it to myself" to ski better, but I thoroughly enjoy learning. when I stop enjoying it, I'll stop and won't feel like a worse person.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, I once was able to help a young lady who had lost her nerve after a nasty tumble. With her parent's permission she skied with me for a few days and trusted me to take her to pistes she would be capable of skiing. She got her nerve back and I got a huge amount of satisfaction from being able to pass on a skill. I've always like the chance to 'teach', maybe if I ever got good enough I could do a BASI course perhaps when the kids have left home - I'd likely get more satisfaction from the teaching than I would with the skiing.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 13-01-14 21:58; edited 1 time in total
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I am a massive spoilsport. Also, I smell like donkey poops. |
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 13-01-14 22:01; edited 1 time in total
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Mr Pieholeo, please don't go there. I'll edit the text.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| jirac18, I owe it to myself and to my kids to try and do it as well as I can. |
whoah there megatooseriousmum....all you owe to yourself is to enjoy your skiing with your family which I have no doubt you have worked hard for. I admire your aspiration but it's just sliding down a big steep hill covered in snow, it's really good fun and you don't need to be the best you can be, just safe whilst having a hoot!
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
'Getting down' something is most definitely skiing.
c.f. someone who can't ski, who wouldn't be able to 'get down' it, except probably by falling over and being killed. |
ok I'm upgrading myself to an 11 on the IO scale, I'm sh|t hot at side slipping and have a smoking snowplough, I can get down anything
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FAQ
