 Poster: A snowHead
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Suffered quite a bit with really cold feet again last week, to the point of them going numb and then having the excruciating pain of the sensation coming back to them in the restau at lunch 
An instructor friend suggested they could be damp and therefore getting cold quickly which I wasn't sure about at first. But after a bit of thinking about it and checking I think it might be.
But what to do about it?
I bring my boots into the chalet every day, actually into the room and use a plug in Thermic hot air blower in them overnight to dry them out fully. So I put them on in the morning warm and dry. I wear thin Smartwool socks, clean dry pair each day. I put boots on in chalet. I go skiing, on the worst days after only about an hour and a quarter my feet are starting to get cold and by two hours they are totally numb. If I take my boots off at lunch, my socks feel very slightly damp.
One day I did try antiperspirant spray on my feet but it made no difference at all.
I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to how to deal with this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sarah, that doesn't sound like damp to me - it sounds like no circulation. When the feeling returned at lunchtime, had you undone them? I've had very similar problems in the same sort of timescales with some of my previous pairs of boots.
Check your ankle clip and the instep clip - they're the two that control circulation, particularly the one on the top of your instep. Make sure your core is warm with enough layers to ensure that your body keeps your extremities warm, too. If the boot is restricted height-wise (putting pressure on your instep where the veins are) try taking your footbed out. If that works, see a bootfitter to get it permanently shaved down to create more height.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Raceplate, thank you very much. It could be I suppose, I will think and check again. I have had very bad boot issues in the past but thought I had got it sorted just about with these boots.
Yes when the feeling returned I had taken them off and was holding my feet in pain as they were throbbing until the feeling returned 
My instep clip is only just closed, first tooth and extended clip, nonetheless there is 'pull' on it to close it. I thought the ankle clip needed to be fairly secure?
Now I think about it, it is very possible that my foot is sitting too high in the boot. Will mess with the footbeds.
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sarah, or, like many, you could be developing Raynaud's. Happened to Mrs UANN a few years ago, to the pount that she's got heated insoles and heated glove liners... Do you suffer from the cold much when you're not skiing?
(Damp socks from perspiration (or even leaky boots) doesn't seem like a likely culprit to me.).
Circulation check as above definitely worthwhile.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, thank you. In the past I have had heated footbeds, though not since the latest boots. Maybe I need to revisit them. No I wouldn't say that I suffer from the cold when not skiing any more than anyone else really. Will pursue the fit, circulation possibilities.
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sarah, ok, a couple of other thoughts/comparisons from my own experiences: if your instep is on the first catch then you are borderline for foot volume in the boot and height may well be the issue. Great for skiing control, iffy for circulation. Does it get worse in the afternoon? I've had boots that were tolerable until about 3pm and then unwearable after that even with the foot clips undone(because your feet swell up during the day). My current boots are so close that it makes zero difference to my skiing whether the two foot clips are done up or not and if I do those clips up enough for the buckle to 'snap' shut rather than just flop down it cuts off the circulation. One microturn is the difference! I would try skiing with both foot clips undone for a couple of hours to see if you still get the issue.
Yes, the ankle clip should be tight but there is still a point where it will cut off the circulation. You can analyse which individual clips are causing problems by skiing with one of them undone for an hour - try with the instep undone and see if you still get the problem, then do it up and undo the ankle instead. If the boot is completely too small, though, you will still get numbness even if all the clips are undone.
The ultimate test for whether they are too tight IME is to sit around in them in the evening in a warm room with them done up the same way as you would for skiing. Lots of people will say you're not supposed to do this but I find it a great test of circulation fit. If your foot has not gone numb after 2 hours, they're ok. Your feet swell up during the day and with heat so if they go numb in the evening you need to adjust the clips. If you can't get them comfortable in the evening, you need to see a bootfitter to get them blown out.
Also, play with the balance between all the clips in terms of tension by adjusting the microturns - they should all be the same tension. You will find that the top shin clip becomes 'loose' after about an hour of wearing them with the powerstrap done up because your calves heat up the liner and it compresses slightly. This has the knock-on effect of making the ankle clip 'tight' in comparison which can then cause problems, so you need to recheck that the balance between the clips is even when the boot is warmed up.
Hope it helps. Boots can be a nightmare
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get some boot warmers; I need them in anything other than warm conditions (don't need them at the moment in these balmy spring temperatures!).
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sarah, I am liking Raceplate's suggestions. If you don't have cold hands/feet issues other times, probably nothing systematic. Her indoors had to have her heated gloves on on Sunday while skate skiing in +3C temps. I was in a sweaty t-short and could have got away with shorts. She also needs to wash lettuce in warm water, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Heated footbeds are the answer. I lost the cable for mine at Christmas (it turned up back in the Uk). It was mild enough for the first half of the trip to not notice, but om the colder days at the end I suffered.
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Raceplate, thanks again. The more I think about this now, reading what you have written, the more I think it is circulation not cold. Generally, the boots get progressively worse the longer I have them on, but on bad days by two hours they are totally numb and I have to get them off and then have the pain while they get back to normal.
Yes I could easily ski with both foot clips undone, the fit in terms of foot height is that close. And the calf clip does quickly become loose.
I went back to the shop a couple of times to try to get a bit more height in the boot and they tried a couple of things padding up the top of the arch and heating up the boot, though I wasn't convinced by that, also modified the footbed a few times, in the end they made a new set of footbeds and I thought the boots were better. I skied in them at the end of the season and don't recall having too much trouble with them but last week I was struggling again.
pam w, Hells Bells I have some, I just need to get them refitted which I haven't done as I've changed footbeds and wanted to be sure that they were right before having the elements put on but I'm now not sure it is cold but loss of circulation.
under a new name thanks, I don't think it is. I'm not warm like my husband who pretty much skis in a shell and one base layer most of the time but I don't think I suffer the cold any more than average. For example, I'll go and watch my son play rugby on a Sunday morning and I'm no colder than anyone else there and certainly not suffering with my feet the way I am skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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sarah, rather than antiperspirant on your feet, if you haven't tried it a little talc in your socks might be worth a go. You could try the Scholl or Mycota talcs specially for infected feet - I don't think they would do any harm even if you don't have an infection, or even just a shake of Johnsons/boots baby. A cheap enough experiment with no harm done I would think. I use talc in my riding boots and it keeps my feet dry enough to let them slip on and off easily.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, thanks, powder might be worth a try.
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Try wearing the boots for a few hours without skiing (sacrilege I know). That might tell you if it is a circulation problem.
Although I accept that it might not be a very practical suggestion
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You know it makes sense.
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Where the boots wet inside when you took them off at lunchtime?
Sounds like a visit back to the shop is in order, or find another fitter!!
Heated footbeds won't help with circulation....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, thanks, no not wet inside, though my feet/socks would be slightly dampand if I took my boots off in the car park then steam comes off them! So all things now pointing to circulation being cut off in some way.
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Poster: A snowHead
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sarah, it does sound more and more like foot height/volume is the issue. When you have your bad days, have you had a skinful the night before? Dehydration swells feet. So does exercise and also altitude, although some people seem more affected by that than others. I'm one of them.
To get my boots' buckle tension right, I usually sit around in them for a couple of hours after I've finished skiing. That seems to be the best time to adjust the ankle and calf clips to get the balance right, when the boot liner is warmed up and your foot is still in skiing mode. When you put them on the next day though, they will seem much too tight until the liner's warmed up. IME this can start the circulation issue. The solution is to put the two leg clips on one catch less until you're ready to ski. So, for skiing I have them on catch 3 and 4 respectively, but until I get to the top of the first lift I only put them on catch 2 and 3. The instep buckle I never do up until after the first run. This routine seems to give my feet time to adjust to being in a ski boot and for the rest of the day the circulation is good.
There's a couple more things a bootfitter can do, too. If foot height is the issue, the footbed is the first thing to look at but most boots also have a removable base board that the liner sits on. This can be shaved down underneath to make it sit lower and give a few mm more depth in the boot. Also, it's just possible that the liner itself is too tight but these can be stretched too if you ask them. I've had liners that made my feet numb when wearing them on their own but I think that's a very rare problem.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sarah, sounds like a similar problem to my old boots. They were so small/tight that my feet/toes were numb within an hour or so of putting them on and got progressively worse as my feet and legs got progressively more swollen during the day. I confused this with being cold, but in 18º temperatures in Cervinia Feb 2012, I realised this can't have been the case. It was definitely a circulation thing, my toes were pale blue when taking my boots and socks off, and my toenails became so brittle they sometimes fell off! I had the boots stretched twice but ultimately this did not resolve the problem, so I ended up buying larger better-fitting boots. My new boots do feel quite roomy when I first put them on but after an hour or so of swelling they are fine, with no numb feet and no toenail loss. I realised after this valuable lesson that the 'performance fit' shell check was not for me, I need something with a bit more room to expand! If you suffer from lower leg/feet swelling, this might be the case for you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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One tip from me is to make sure your body is warm as a warm torso will make your heart pump blood to the extremities, fingers and toes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sarah,
| Quote: |
| The current footbeds are very moulded under the arch so very likely that the top of the foot is compressed under the second buckle. |
I've chucked away at least 3 pairs of custom moulded footbeds over the years for that very reason. I now use off the shelf Superfeet Green. I switched to Superfeet Orange once which has a pre formed Morton's dome in it and they killed me for 3 weeks but I couldn't work out why. Then I took them out and realised they have an extra layer of rubber under the ball of the foot for comfort. It's only about 3mm thick but that was the problem - I ripped it off and they were much better. Still switched back to Green when I got home though. Fine margins for comfort in ski boots!
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Sarah, I noticed you were contributing to the 5:2 thread. Assuming boots have been Ok in the past, I wonder if it could be weight gain? - That has certainly been the case for me  5 years of trouble free boots and this year, having got a desk job and put on (more than) a few pounds I was suffering similarly at Xmas. I partially solved the problem by switching to pop socks rather than ski socks - as Raceplate says, it really is a matter of mm's. I WILL fully solve the problem by dropping the lard in the next few months - t'was a bit of a wake up call.
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Annie, good call. I had problems with painful feet last winter fortunately it turned out to be the micro-adjustments on the buckles had been gradually adjusted too much over the previous season. Loosened them all off and started again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I am still struggling to understand how damp makes your feet cold in ski boots?
Moistures cools your skin when it evaporates. There's little opportunity for that in a well fitting boot.
A warm boot, I think, should have your foot comfortably held in a nice cocoon of warm humid air held in place by sock and liner.
My feet are damp after about an hour's skiing (sweaty feet). But I do use heated drying rods, so my feet usually go in to warm boots, rather than cold ones which does make a big difference.
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| Quote: |
I am still struggling to understand how damp makes your feet cold in ski boots?
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There are a couple of mechanisms.
If the boots are leaking then the water getting in will be cold. This will cool down your feet.
If your socks and liners are damp then they will not insulate your feet as well against the cold conducted through the shells.
Also the water will still evaporate from your feet and then condense on the inside of the shells (and then drip down onto your feet again)
Cold feet are much more likely to be about circulation be cut off or restricted by the body to maintain your core temp but wet feet can also get cold all on their own
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Tight boots, damp boots , damp socks. So make sure your boots fit, and are warm and dry when you put them on. Clean dry socks help.
Sorry just read post above, which basically is the point.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Flet©h, I was presuming that the boots aren't leaking - that's a whole different problem.
If your socks and liners are damp then they will not insulate your feet as well against the cold conducted through the shells. - I'm not convinced this is a huge effect, but I'll accept it will have an effect...
Also the water will still evaporate from your feet and then condense on the inside of the shells (and then drip down onto your feet again) - in my experience, it condenses on the inside of the shells and runs down to cllect un puddles under by boot board. Which only then contcats my feet if I am upside down.
Still unconvinced that damp feet are the major issue.
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guys, sarah has already said her boots were not damp when she took them off at lunchtime....
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski, thread drift 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I had issues with cold wet feet with pre-production HEAD Raptors as the overlap on the shell wasn't long enough, letting water in, this was altered once they hit main production, new ones don't leak. As the boots aren't done up tightly over the forefoot it might be an issue, also the front water dam might not be watertight. Bit of silicone sealant might not go amiss.
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Poster: A snowHead
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