Are black runs the safest?

A snowHead

Looking back over the last few seasons the penny's dropped that I haven't had a single 'near miss' on a black run:

1. much less traffic
2. tend to be slower than red, so less consequences if you fall anyway?
3. other skiers seem to give much more space - because there is much more space, and because their etiquette & abilities just seems to be much better

The more I think about it the more I reckon the risk comes from the speed of red runs, and the crowds and mix of skier speeds on the blue runs.

What d'ya reckon?

mnbv

A snowHead

I know people who have been seriously injured on black, red, nursery slope (yes, really) and a friend of a friend was killed off piste. I don't detect much of pattern at all except, maybe, that skiing in spring snow is very nice but somewhat riskier.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

i would agree to a degree. If you take it steady on a black like you mention then yes they can be safer. people tend to bomb down blue and red becasue they are blue and red and big wide and flat, you only get real good people who bomb down a black without a wory in the world. The only thing is its normally black for a reason, steepness, mogals, obstacales so if you take a tumble it can be hard to stop on some runs, and thereofore much more risky.

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The first day I went out skiing again after breaking my pelvis (in a collision) last January, it was not a busy day (end of March) but I did find myself spooked by the people - more than I'd expected. We shifted to an easy and empty black run, had it to ourselves, and all was well.

I asked a pisteur which was the most "dangerous" piste in terms of rescues and injuries, in our area (I had a very interesting early morning out with a pisteur, opening the pistes - a worthwhile initiative of the resort) and without hesitation he pointed to part of a red run we were just ove, on the chairlift. It has a steep top, which people take carefully. Then a less steep section, where people tend to go very fast towards a blind lip. The terrain drops very steeply over that lift and "ils volent"! (they fly). It's also a sector which holds its snow very well and at the end of the season tends to have a lot of people on it who are not able to ski it properly - two steep reds and a black.

The answer probably varies from resort to resort - in some places the home runs to resort are probably the most dangerous especially when conditions aren't good.

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"However collisions with other skiers and snowboarders has risen dramatically to 10% of all injuries." Figure from Médecins de Montagne (I think) quoted at http://welove2ski.com/ski-safety

So other skiers are a significant hazard but most injuries are due to our own mistakes.

That said, the only bad fall I've had in recent years was caused by a high-speed skier colliding with me from behind, on a motorway red in perfect conditions. After returning to skiing from a long break a few years ago, it was very noticeable how long lift queues are mostly a thing of the past but instead we have crowded pistes. I'm afraid I think skiers trying beat 100kph on phone apps are a new hazard.

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More moguls would slow people down too. Slower speeds, more uneven terrain = less serious collisions with other skiers.

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While I tends to agree with the OP it is not universally true, especially towards the end of the week when you get the people that decide they "have to do a black run" or on those black just labelled black because the resort wants to.

I'd reckon that if you want to gauge danger by the colour, it has more to do with wrong labelling than anything else, plus those slopes that move up in difficulty because of conditions. EG there is a bit of a blue off the top of the Roche de Mio in La PLagne that fairly steep-ish and gets cut up something rotten, not even into proper moguls. Add hundreds coming down and you have a super dangerous situation on what is actually a difficult slope by then

After all it is free

This is one of the reasons that, even after 28 years on skis, I still enjoy skiing in Grandvalira, Andorra, even at 1/2 term the resort runs rarely get crowded and, being "unpopular" with advanced skiers, the reds and blacks are often deserted. although I would far rather that blacks were never pisted, the pisted reds with no-one on them are fab for pushing the skis to the limit of grip, carving flat out from top to bottom with no-one to get in the way.

At Les 2 Alpes one of the most dangerous runs used to be Valentin, a 'home run' black withskiers on terrain way above their abilities. If you skied it, you were at serious risk of being taken out from above. OTOH, the were other black routes down which were almost empty, and so fun.

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Skiing is statistically safer than cycling and swimming...

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I generally agree with the OP unless the black is groomed and icy. Other blacks tend to dramatically lower speed, which, in turn, reduces the penalty for an unforced error - which, if we're honest, we all occasionally make.

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emwmarine, haha, yes I was forced to give up rugby, but I still swim most weeks. And I ride a big motorbike. You can't live your life wrapped up in a 'safety' cocoon, then die a horrible cancer death. What's the point of that...

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Skiing in Garmisch a couple of days ago, on a path that connects one area to another, and which unfortunately can't be avoided, my daughter was run down by a guy on a snowboard, and shortly afterwards I was run down by a dutch guy on skis rolling eyes

Luckily neither of us was hurt, but frankly I have decided to no longer ski on or around new year. Having said that the steeper pistes were all empty and would have been perfectly safe to ski. It's the mayhem on the easier slopes that I find really frightening.
So the answer for me is definitely yes, blacks are safer, as is off-piste.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Our crowd always try and find the blacks in a resort, less people does make for a safer feel at least, that chattering right behind you scares the cr*p out of me! I always give someone in front loads of room or stop and let them go, the runs back to resort are often mental!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Peter S, yes it would slow people down, but as for reducing accidents and injuries, I haven't read so much rubbish in a while. It's still steaming.

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Oh, and just as a bye-the-bye, last Friday on the crowded blue back to Bellecotte I saw an ESF boarder instructor going much too fast take out a little kid.....

And what does scare the crap out of me on blacks is that sound of a boarder scraping all the snow off, out of control somewhere above me. Sound familiar?

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After all it is free

Indicated colours are arbitrary.
The one time I was taken out in a full double ski release incident, was by an ESF instructor, on a green cat track path between lift and start of pistes.
The other 2 times I was taken out but managed to save it and keep going, were by boarders trying to maintain momentum (one on a green cat track, the other accessing lift queue).

If we include fatal outcomes, then the most common place to be where you'll never re-awake is a bed. I'd stick to skiing, any colour run, or off piste, and avoid going to bed.

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Ham, there are lies, damn lies and statistics

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Rate of injury per 1,000 visits (US figures for 2009):

Skiing: 2.7
Snowboarding: 3.37
Cycling: 11.4

I agree statistics are a load of baloney and can be made to 'prove/disprove' any point you want...

You know it makes sense.

queen bodecia Those stats you have quoted are risible, sorry. If it is anything like this quick google turned up http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/risk/sports.html it is the population figure that is all to pot. FWIW, the statistical risk of DETH on a bike in London is around 1:50,000,000 in terms of trips. Very very very very very very low, and completely counter to the current round of scare stories.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ham, I can see what you are trying to say, but you are doing nothing but proving my point. 1:50,000,000. Get a grip of yourself. That stat is at best heavily manipulated and at worst completely made up.

A snowHead

Tend to agree with some of the sentiments of the OP. I got taken out on the Marmott Piste (easy blue) in Les Arcs last week by a young guy speeding up from behind; not that I was going particularly slowly - but it was a young man with lots of speed and less control, which is a very scary combination. Thankfully no harm done and the young man may have learned some new cuss-words (and hopefully better manners). I am convinced that what gives me stress and anxiety on the slopes is not the terrain, but crowds of other skiers. Toofy Grin

A snowHead

Ian Kenvyn, +1

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

This is an interesting discussion however.
Presumably the insurance companies have reasonable statistics to base their premiums on.
But the it does depend what one is measuring. I recall that one of the most dangerous sports to play, if you are worried about dying, is Golf, because the average age and lifestyle of many of the participants who have heart attacks while playing, as well as the quite large number of people who get struck by lightning. Neither of which causes has anything to do with the sport .

It is noticeable that blues and red are much busier and faster than I ever recall. I spend much of my skiing time skiing behind my 10 year old daughter, trying to discourage the lunatic skiers and boarders from going too close to her (by skiing slightly wider turns than her and looking uphill for them before they get near tous)

Personally, I will hark back to many of my previous posts, about the importance of telling and reiterating the Skiers Code, by the TOs, the rental shops, the lift companies and the insurance companies.
A particular memory of last year was being for ed off the edge of the piste into the crud by another slope user who cam bombing down the edge of the piste. I caught him up 5 minutes later when he was sitting on a ridge of the piste. I asked him what he knew of the skiers code, and that the downhill skier has the right of way, if you like. He told me I was talking rubbish, that i should not be turning to the right and left as I went down the edge of the piste, because ... On his snow board he cannot make such small radius turns and therefore it was I in fact who was skiing dangerously ! Now, he was quite an accomplished boarder as I saw when he carried on past me. He was in his mid 20s and obviously had been boarding for a long time. But he had no concept or knowledge of the code.

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sev112, +1 on that point too. I have noticed more people not looking uphill before they set off.

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Ham, fair point well made

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The same issue is cropping up with cycling in London as no blue and red runs - increased number of vulnerable people in close proximity to things that can cause you harm.
Statistics arent needed to tell us that in both cases we ought to be looking for something sensible to help improve the situation

In both cases I personally believe that Information Campaigns would help. Remind everyone of the skiers code. Put govt adverts on TV telling people what lorries do and vice versa.

After all it is free

Wow, sobering to see the number of people who have been taken out on the slopes by other skiers/boarders. Is it just me who this doesn't seem to happen too? Puzzled

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rasmanisar, it's not happened to me either, but I have seen it happen and know people injured as a result. (One a broken pelvis, I wonder if that's a likely injury when hit by another skier)

Help!!

Are black runs the safest?

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