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Michael Schumacher "Gravely injured" in Meribel

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
allanm wrote:
No. I said 'Concussion is not often fatal or even have any long term effects.'


True - but likewise I said "potentially life-threatening", i.e. it can be serious, albeit infrequently, as you indeed agree. I agree in the vast majority of events it's no more than perhaps a minimal period of confusion and nothing more. But if your partner or child (or anyone else you might particularly care for) should hit their head in a fall, being watchful for continuing signs of concussion could be a lifesaver. Not often fatal would be little comfort if it was that unlucky "1 in however many events" event.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes, but why bother in a car? You need to crash before a helmet is of any use. We don't crash...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mick_Br wrote:
allanm wrote:
No. I said 'Concussion is not often fatal or even have any long term effects.'


True - but likewise I said "potentially life-threatening", i.e. it can be serious, albeit infrequently, as you indeed agree. I agree in the vast majority of events it's no more than perhaps a minimal period of confusion and nothing more. But if your partner or child (or anyone else you might particularly care for) should hit their head in a fall, being watchful for continuing signs of concussion could be a lifesaver. Not often fatal would be little comfort if it was that unlucky "1 in however many events" event.


Pedantic. as above.
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allanm wrote:
Mick_Br wrote:
allanm wrote:
No. I said 'Concussion is not often fatal or even have any long term effects.'


True - but likewise I said "potentially life-threatening", i.e. it can be serious, albeit infrequently, as you indeed agree. I agree in the vast majority of events it's no more than perhaps a minimal period of confusion and nothing more. But if your partner or child (or anyone else you might particularly care for) should hit their head in a fall, being watchful for continuing signs of concussion could be a lifesaver. Not often fatal would be little comfort if it was that unlucky "1 in however many events" event.


Pedantic. as above.


Whatever...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
allanm wrote:
Yes, but why bother in a car? You need to crash before a helmet is of any use. We don't crash...



145,571 people probably thought that this time last year
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Is that the number of severe head injuries from car accidents which would have been prevented by wearing a helmet?

Assuming so, I'm interested in the source of that figure
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allanm, No - that is the number of car crashes reported in the UK last year. You said 'we don't crash....'


Some people do crash. The number is a very small percentage of the people who ski/drive. The number of head impacts would be a very small percentage of the reported crashes. I can't understand why someone would decide that the risk of head injury is enough to justify wearing a helmet and then not wear the most protective helmet available. Puzzled
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It all seems to have gone quiet about Mr Schumacher over the past few days.
Anyone know how he is doing?
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Quote:
Bild, the German daily, said that it has obtained information from among the medical team treating him in Grenoble that suggest there are still great fears of “unexpected complications,” such as a brain haemorrhage and infection.


Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10569792/Michael-Schumacher-has-operation-on-skull-to-discover-any-brain-damage.html
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Thornyhill wrote:
How many of the pro helmet people wear a full face motorcycle helmet when driving a car? How much safer would driving be if everyone wore a helmet? What if you wore a full face motorcycle helmet when skiing. That would be safer than a flimsy ski helmet??? Toofy Grin


Wink maybe those who own an Atom Smile

If you drive well / defensively then the chances of an accident are low you are already in a helmet - the car, with crumple zones / roll cage around you / safety belt / etc.
skiing is much wilder, less predictable - more on the edge (or should be!!) as an activity - you push yourself to and through your capability boundaries far more often than you do driving...
how often does a motorist come over the brow of a hill go yee-haa and foot to the floor shoot down it, slaloming through whatever other traffic is there?! Smile

a better analogy in many ways would be a motorbike - more on the edge / more risk-takers / less protection / etc. - and they unsurprisingly do wear full helmets - a car is not an accurate comparison

Alasdair
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allanm wrote:
No. I said 'Concussion is not often fatal or even have any long term effects.'
That's right, but concussion is enough to lose a day or two skiing. Might not make the headlines, but if you only get a week skiing a year losing a day or two to feelings of nausea, a splitting headache and feeling disorientated is not a great scenario. Happened to me twice and it's unpleasant.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I wonder whether one of the admins can remove all the boring helmet comments into a "yet another boring, pointless and endless helmet thread" leaving only posts about Mr S. on here, and maybe then move the whole thing into Apres?

Thanks.

In fact, perhaps admin could write some cunning software that anything concerning helmets other than "does my head look big in this?" automatically gets shunted off somewhere else?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Perhaps the admins could start another section just for discussions on Helmets, Winter tyres, CG v PJSki etc entitled "Flogged to death".
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DB, Perhaps that section can be called 'Cliffed Out'?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
perhaps the forum could be run rather like real life (scary I know!) where conversations change and turn direction - run down irrelevant side-alleys, come back to topic etc... those present carry on in the conversation if interested / move onto another if not...
ah yes - it is Very Happy

can you imagine in real life at a party / in the bar - a conversation starts on one topic, and every time something else is mentioned an admin bod turns up - picks up offending person and moves them to an empty part of the bar and tells them to have the new conversation there... or bops them on the head with a hammer and tells them they are only allowed to talk about the subject under discussion - Wink

Alasdair
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Poster: A snowHead
^ that would be AWESOME. Especially if they removed the really annoying people too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

or bops them on the head with a hammer and tells them they are only allowed to talk about the subject under discussion - Wink


Oooohhhhh! another helmet thread Laughing Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
halfhand, if you really want some hilarity, get your laughing gear out for this....the definitive helmet thread BTW, completely SFW Laughing
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Any news on Schumacher??
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My helmet keeps my ears warm and toasty.

If I had an odd accident where my head was banged it will probably help.
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From that thread:

sHAF in Boots wrote:
Chasseur, Don't be daft Laughing Besides, if that happened, we'd just have to find some other OCD to keep you out of mischief Toofy Grin


Cacciatore wrote:
Bootsie Babe, suggestions welcome Toofy Grin wink wink


Well the writing was on the cards even back then.

Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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emwmarine wrote:
Any news on Schumacher??


As above - krakatoa [another name I use when this one seems inappropriate]. It's not appropriate for this, which isn't comedic at all either, but here's a bit of related and interesting information ... just posted ... by 'stuart' on a blog-site of a major US media outlet ...

Youth Sports | Efforts underway to ensure young athletes' safety
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140114/ZONE01/301150035/Youth-Sports-Efforts-underway-ensure-young-athletes-safety?nclick_check=1

Quote:
Parents often worry about the possibility of their youngsters getting a concussion when playing contact sports. And rightly so. It is estimated that between 43,000 and 67,000 concussions each year happen in high school football alone.

But new technology may lend a hand in making contact sports safer — or at the very least, paint a better picture to let coaches know when to pull a player off to the sidelines and assess the situation.

Bethesda, Md.-based Brain Sentry uses an accelerometer to detect the force of a hit. The $65 device attaches to the outside of the helmet to provide a clear, immediate indication of a hard head hit.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
geepee wrote:
From that thread:

sHAF in Boots wrote:
Chasseur, Don't be daft Laughing Besides, if that happened, we'd just have to find some other OCD to keep you out of mischief Toofy Grin


Cacciatore wrote:
Bootsie Babe, suggestions welcome Toofy Grin wink wink


Well the writing was on the cards even back then.

Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin


Laughing Laughing Laughing Very Happy
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Comedy Goldsmith,
Quote:
Bethesda, Md.-based Brain Sentry uses an accelerometer to detect the force of a hit. The $65 device attaches to the outside of the helmet to provide a clear, immediate indication of a hard head hit.
Another way of detecting that is when the guy rolls around on the grass saying 'ouch'. Another clear indication is when he doesn't get up again, bleeds all over the playing field, starts seeing double or starts saying strange stuff not related to the game in hand.
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And I thought it was a thread on Schumi, not yet another helmet wearing debate Puzzled , I so hope he pulls through

Pasted from Telegraph online,

French doctors have begun brain tests on Michael Schumacher to see which areas have been damaged, it was reported on Monday.
The seven-time world racing champion has been in an artificially induced coma for 15 days after he struck a rock while skiing off-piste in the resort of Meribel.
He has had an operation to remove a small part of his skull in a bid to relieve pressure on his brain, according to a Zurich paper at the weekend.
Frédéric Rossi, a Swiss neurosurgeon, told the Zurich Tagesanzeiger that the risks of such an operation ranged from swelling to bleeding to the accidental opening of the brain’s outer membrane.
Meanwhile, Bild, the German daily, said that it has obtained information from among the medical team treating him in Grenoble that suggest there are still great fears of “unexpected complications,” such as a brain haemorrhage and infection.
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Wow! Worth wading through the Daily Mail article to see the extent of the media frenzy.
And those poor docs do look rather exhausted.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
emwmarine wrote:
Any news on Schumacher??


As above - krakatoa [another name I use when this one seems inappropriate]. It's not appropriate for this, which isn't comedic at all either, but here's a bit of related and interesting information ... just posted ... by 'stuart' on a blog-site of a major US media outlet ...

Youth Sports | Efforts underway to ensure young athletes' safety
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140114/ZONE01/301150035/Youth-Sports-Efforts-underway-ensure-young-athletes-safety?nclick_check=1

Quote:
Parents often worry about the possibility of their youngsters getting a concussion when playing contact sports. And rightly so. It is estimated that between 43,000 and 67,000 concussions each year happen in high school football alone.

But new technology may lend a hand in making contact sports safer — or at the very least, paint a better picture to let coaches know when to pull a player off to the sidelines and assess the situation.

Bethesda, Md.-based Brain Sentry uses an accelerometer to detect the force of a hit. The $65 device attaches to the outside of the helmet to provide a clear, immediate indication of a hard head hit.


Interesting seeing that - we were the first to start development of that type of product with our system a number of years ago - which very simply and cheaply held ball bearings in suspension - the force at which a helmet's protection deteriorated was sufficient to dislodge teh ball bearings and the helmet rattled - time to get rid of it... it certainly didn't add $65 to the price of the helmet!

Alasdair
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Steilhang wrote:
Another way of detecting that is when the guy rolls around on the grass saying 'ouch'. Another clear indication is when he doesn't get up again, bleeds all over the playing field, starts seeing double or starts saying strange stuff not related to the game in hand.


Another way is to watch them drop down dead, Natasha Richardson style, shortly after getting up and declaring themselves to be just just fine.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Serriadh, Not convinced an accelerometer would have made any difference there!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2540017/Fears-grow-Michael-Schumacher-coma-rest-life.html

News of MS isn't encouraging Sad
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genepi wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2540017/Fears-grow-Michael-Schumacher-coma-rest-life.html

News of MS isn't encouraging Sad
Sadly I'm not too surprised. My OH was asking why it had all gone quiet on his condition. Essentially I think the medics can do no more and it is now a question of waiting until his injuries heal and seeing what happens next. Hope I'm wrong but a full and complete recovery may no longer be on the cards (if it ever was) Sad
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
That is really sad to read but I guess the longer he remains in a coma the less likely he is to make a full and complete recovery.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's worth reading what Gary Heartstein, as a former Formula 1 surgeon, has to say on this.

http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/evaluating-depth-of-coma/

Kel, I agree the way that this thread has been used to stoke a particular tiresome and repetitive argument has really disappointed me.
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Certainly not encouraging news
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Read the Daily mail article on-line and the thing I noticed most was the paparazzi poking their cameras at Mrs S. Can't they leave the poor woman alone.
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Jonpim, the docs looking after Schumacher are the same ones that looked after my hubby 5 years ago. They will be exhausted at this time of year, the wards were full of spinal , brain and cervical injuries from New Year skiing accidents (but I suspect you will already know that). Pics are of the press conferences at the beginning of the saga rather than recent.
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2waterford wrote:
That is really sad to read but I guess the longer he remains in a coma the less likely he is to make a full and complete recovery.


Not necessarily... a medically induced coma is utilised to allow the damage to repair itself absent post trauma stress. When judged appropriate, the patient is returned to consciousness in a controlled manner. Don't know if that's the case here but fingers crossed for his full recovery.

Re the GCS scale piece, what makes it really useful is a non-medic can do the evaluation reasonably reliably and record the results quickly. The two surgeons ran some comparative tests (i.e. a doctor filling out the score chart compared to a non-medic - possibly a hospital porter...) and the overall score per patient was generally the same. Which means an A&E dept can get a good idea in advance of whether they might need a neuro-surgeon on hand ahead of the ambulance arriving.
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I had a fall head first at speed last week and hit the snow with a helmet on ,even that almost knocked me out and left me dazed for a while afterwards ,im just glad i was wearing a helmet.
so there is no question about wearing or not wearing a helmet as far as im concerned .
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Exactly the same experience as skiboy70 last week and I concur with his comments. By the way I was cut up by an overtaking skier.
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No question here either after inspecting the damage to my daughters helmet after she bounced her head off an icy piste and, by the looks of it, a rock or two and left he seeing stars but fine shortly after.
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