 Poster: A snowHead
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Can anyone clear up some confusion about the legal requirement to have these? I keep getting conflicting advice. All the retailers (obviously) insist that you need them, but I thought it was chains or snow tyres? This is also what one of you said (sorry can't remember who) on the advice on the Natives site. I really don't want to have chains unless absolutely necessary - our car hates them as the suspension is very low. We've got snow tyres and I thought that would be fine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My understanding is .....
You don't have to legaly carry snow chains (when I was stopped by the police here in Austria during winter the police did not ask to see snow chains but did ask for warning triangle etc). However, if a snow chain sign is displayed (see attached link for example) you have to mount snow chains or can't drive any further. Main routes don't usually require snow chains, they are normally only required in bad conditions on steeper access/valley roads.
http://www.bayerninfo.de/verkehr/driving_e.html
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/traffic/signs/Gp.html
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thank youDB, that's helpful. I wonder if this applies to France too? I was told (admittedly by a tyre vendor) that if you can't get up somewhere with tyres, you won't be able to with chains either!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Jane, yes it does. At the bottom of the hill up to La Plagne for example there is an Aire de Chainage (parking / fitting area) where in bad weather the police establish a road block and only those with chains are allowed up. Whether the chains actually give more grip than snow tyres is academic. The police want chains.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you hire a car will it have winter tyres and chains? Or does it depend on the country? I'm thinking of the Pyrennes from Girona? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In Germany, Switzerland and Austria, snow chains are only legally required when the police say no access without. In Switzerland at least, winter tyres are not a legal requirement HOWEVER should you be involved in an accident and have summer tyres on your car in the winter, you will be deemed to be at fault irrespective of the circumstances.
In France it is a legal requirement to carry snow chains in the car when you are in the mountains. We've never yet used them in 5 years of trips to the 3 Valleys, but have to have them nonetheless.
HTH
eng
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| Jane, yes it does. At the bottom of the hill up to La Plagne for example there is an Aire de Chainage (parking / fitting area) where in bad weather the police establish a road block and only those with chains are allowed up. Whether the chains actually give more grip than snow tyres is academic. The police want chains. |
and my bruv in law can tell you from experience that the one garage in La Plagne sell's very expensive chains! No chains sir you are not going anywhere until you have chains. said the Policeman.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 24-11-05 16:35; edited 1 time in total
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| and my bruv in law can tell you from experience that the one garage in La Plagne sell's very expensive chains! No chains sir you are not going anywhere until you have chains. said the Policeman:? |
Let me guess, the snowchains are high price but low quality and the policeman's brother in law owns the petrol station.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Jane wrote: |
| I was told (admittedly by a tyre vendor) that if you can't get up somewhere with tyres, you won't be able to with chains either! |
This is a report (admittedly by a snow chain manufacturer) that says otherwise.
http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainss.html
Note - Snow tyres aren't winter tyres but sometimes people get the two mixed up or believe they are the same thing. Snow chains are not only for getting you up the hill but aim to give you more traction so you don't slip back down again. Snow chains also "dig in" (provided abs is disabled).
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DB, Psychic you are . . .  Much research later tells me that tyres or 4x4 are not what the police in France, Italy or Austria are interested in. If you don't have chains when they decide you need them . . . you ain't going up the hill!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jane wrote: |
| Thank youDB, that's helpful. I wonder if this applies to France too? I was told (admittedly by a tyre vendor) that if you can't get up somewhere with tyres, you won't be able to with chains either! |
I guess it depends on the car and what the vendor was talking about. If he meant self cleaning treads with a low temperature rubber then in general you will, in my experience, go further with a pair of snow chains on the driven wheels if the conditions are icy then you will on tires. If he meant studded tires - you don't see them too often these days (although my mountain bike has them for winter) then they are better than chains.
As was mentioned elsewhere wheel width is important. I had a Fiat Panda 2WD for about 5 years (135 tires) and just had summer michelins. I never had any trouble on snowy roads - used to overtake Brits in Land Rovers and suchlike which really annoyed them. I have also driven Clios which are great with winter tires and a Golf 4Motion which was a dream. Any 4WD with summer tires is useless frankly, especially when you try to brake 1.5 tonnes of metal. My current car, a Toy-Yoda with sporty low profile tires is horrible in the snow and not wonderful with chains either.
Just some beta as they say.
There is a winter weather alert for the East of France for the next 24 hours including the Savoie so take care if you are around that way and on the roads.
I will check up what the exact legal requirement are for France but my understanding was that beyond the chained wheel on a blue background you should have chains or studded tires in bad weather. Some of the main roads, such as the N91, have this sign too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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To be fair ....... Winter tyres definately give you better performance than summer tyres. I was once in a car that was struggling for traction on the ice / snow (I'm almost certain it had winter tyres) and we had to put chains on which got us going again.
By the way snow chains have a low speed limit and should only be used on roads with snow/ice, excessive speed esp. on normal roads can cause damage.
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Okay a bit more info which relates to what j2ski said in another thread.
"Summer tires loose grip at temperatures below 7C. For the same tire size the breaking distance for a summer tire at 40km/h is on average a third more at an ambiente temperature of 2C on dry roads." (source:test by Kleber).
The sign with a chained tire is a B26 which under French law 24/11/1967 (Article 4) means snow chains are required on at least the two driven wheels beyond the sign if there is snow on the road. If the sign has a sub-panel "pneus à neige admis" cars equipped with spiked tires do not have to fit chains. Trailers do not need to have chains. 4x4 vehicles are not excepted from this rule and must carry chains on at least two wheels - preferably the front. Vehicles with "winter tires" must also fit chains where this sign is shown.
Spike-spiders and similar are allowed on French roads but are not considered as snow chains.
The speed limit is 50km/h with chains, 90km/h with spiked tires.
Hope this helps.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jane wrote: |
| Thank youDB, that's helpful. I wonder if this applies to France too? I was told (admittedly by a tyre vendor) that if you can't get up somewhere with tyres, you won't be able to with chains either! |
I should take him for a spin  sometime, I've had to use chains with winter tyres and AWD. Admittedly in those conditions waiting for the road to clear a little may be more prudent.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Peter Ross, asked whether Hire cars provide Snow Chains - from my experience, not as standard - but they will provide them if asked.. it'll probably not surprise you to know that they charge you extra !
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Poster: A snowHead
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If you hire from the Swiss side of Geneva airport, winter tyres are fitted between Nov and April I believe,(the car we hired in OCtober had thenm fitted already) but the snowchains are extra.
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