 Poster: A snowHead
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Just a quick note for those driving in Switzerland after 1st Jan, you will be required by law to drive with your headlights or daytime running lights on at all times of the day, or risk a chf 40 fine.
Very annoying and unnecessary in my opinion, many are bound to forget to either put them on and get fined, or forget they're on and get a flat battery.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Having a small black car I almost always drive with at least sidelights as people do seem to see you better. Given the number of people who don't bother with lights when it is dodgy visibility I think it being compulsory would not be a bad thing given the variable light in steep valleys.
It becomes pretty well automatic to check lights before leaving the car - my warning beeper has an intermittent fault and I have only been caught out once in 6 years. ..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whitters, suggestion was to get them wired through the ignition switch...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Whitters, most modern cars will sound an alarm if you pull out the key with any lights on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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next step is to have to have the horn sounding continuously 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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red 27, nah cowbells - it's Switzerland 
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Get a Volvo, job done!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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+1 for cowbells 
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Whitters,red 27, There is tons of research both independent and government to show that this helps reduce accidents significantly so there is a reason for it. Both the EU in 2006 and the UK Gov in 2008 have published studies confriming it, also GM and a few others have done some work on it.
Claude B, Yep thats the answer, Audi have started to introduce it recently and Mercedes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dubaian, yes mine does too but it is a very quiet 'ding' rather than something that will really attract the attention of the hard of hearing or memory.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Fattes13, but there's a corresponding fear that cars having their lights on makes other, unlit, road users less visible. Motorcyclists have commented on this elsewhere, because they are currently the only group on UK roads who are required to have lights permanently on and I can certainly imagine that cyclists will be less visible.
There is also the suggestion that where DRLs are not on ever car, thsoe with them suffer fewer accidents, but that the effect may tail off as more cars have them, so they stand out less.
And, of course, the groups most likely to suffer are those already most vulnerable so, while it may reduce the number of accidents, it may not reduce the number, or severity, of injuries.
NB, I've only read reports of the reports and that was a while ago, so I am not sure of the extent to which those issues were addressed.
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Claude B, Fattes13, All new cars have to have them (daytime running lights), if the type is new since 2011 - because the EU say so
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You know it makes sense.
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Good idea in my opinion, it's not just other motorists that stand a better chance of seeing but pedestrians with impaired eyesight.
Unfortunately those road users not having some highly visible appliance may be a bit more vulnerable, they would be best educated to the effects of them being in darkness too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Whitters wrote: |
| Very annoying and unnecessary in my opinion, many are bound to forget to either put them on and get fined, or forget they're on and get a flat battery. |
Don't know what the fuss is about. The law only formalises what has been strongly recommended practice here for years. IME lights make a huge difference to visibility
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Poster: A snowHead
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Whitters, thanks for the heads up. It doesn't bother me, I think it's a good idea.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pretty standard in Italy now. Most hire cars I have had seem to have the lights permanently on.
I really don't know why we don't do it here.
Even simple things like the old "if you need to put your wipers on, put your lights on" seems to be ignored.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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eng_ch, on a dull overcast day I agree, and my lights come on automatically. On a bright summer day when it is 30 degrees plus I don't see the need. Therefore I could be fined for a forgetful moment in perfect visibility rather than driving dangerously.
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| Whitters wrote: |
| eng_ch, on a dull overcast day I agree, and my lights come on automatically. On a bright summer day when it is 30 degrees plus I don't see the need. Therefore I could be fined for a forgetful moment in perfect visibility rather than driving dangerously. |
There is a need on a bright summer day. On my drive home from work, I go down a lane that is only just wide enough for two cars to pass and one short section of it, just after a bend, is shaded very well by trees. Much easier for your eyes, which are still adjusting to the big change in light levels, to pick out side lights on an oncoming vehicle.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Sitter wrote: |
| There is a need on a bright summer day. On my drive home from work, I go down a lane that is only just wide enough for two cars to pass and one short section of it, just after a bend, is shaded very well by trees. Much easier for your eyes, which are still adjusting to the big change in light levels, to pick out side lights on an oncoming vehicle. |
This sums it up really. One isolated and unusual one-off example is used to bring in a blanket rule affecting everyone. Why not just turn your lights on for that bit of road - but no, let's make everyone have lights on all the time.
How about compulsory helmets for all drivers - nothing controversial there right?
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| red 27 wrote: |
| Sitter wrote: |
| There is a need on a bright summer day. On my drive home from work, I go down a lane that is only just wide enough for two cars to pass and one short section of it, just after a bend, is shaded very well by trees. Much easier for your eyes, which are still adjusting to the big change in light levels, to pick out side lights on an oncoming vehicle. |
This sums it up really. One isolated and unusual one-off example is used to bring in a blanket rule affecting everyone. Why not just turn your lights on for that bit of road - but no, let's make everyone have lights on all the time.
How about compulsory helmets for all drivers - nothing controversial there right? |
Not just a one-off example - on a bright summer's day it's very common to be changing from bright light to shade and lights on cars helps greatly to see them. Cars are also more visible with lights if you have the sun in your eyes (a lot of the year) and more situations than it's worth writing down. What on earth does anyone have against keeping your lights on? Or is it just a case of "nobody's going to tell me what to do"?
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| Or is it just a case of "nobody's going to tell me what to do"? |
It's mostly this.
what's your view on my helmet idea?
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| What on earth does anyone have against keeping your lights on? Or is it just a case of "nobody's going to tell me what to do"? |
I'll say it again.....I might get fined for forgetting to do something that I haven't needed to do for the 25 years that I have been driving, something that my car does automatically anyway in situations where it is really needed, and I'm sure that there will be a number of flat batteries as a result.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Whitters, At least with my car the lights go off when you turn off the key, means I can never leave them on accidentally.
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Avalanche Poodle, yes that would be a good thing to have. I might see what the garage can do.
Anyway, everyone be warned!!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For all those (non volvo drivers) in favour of this legislation, ask yourselves this:
Do you currently always use your lights in the daytime?
If the (honest) answer is (as I suspect) often 'no' then ask yourselves why not?
As the only logical answers are: 1. you're being willfully stupid (unlikely given your membership of this esteemed forum) or 2. you judge that it's not necessary, then the fact that you'd like to be obliged to do so by law suggests that what you really like about this idea is simply that you enjoy being told what to do by 'the people in charge'
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 24-12-13 18:42; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We have daytime running lights in Alberta. I like it. It makes cars way more visible.
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Full headlights- no coz they're pop ups so make a mess of airflow and fuel economy etc. Always sides though.
I don't mind being told what to do if it makes the roads safer in general. We're told which side to drive on...
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You know it makes sense.
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red 27, Do you wear a seat belt when driving or a passenger? Did you wear one before it became law to do so?
When the seat belt law came in I didn't forget to put my seat belt on despite not being a habitual seat belt wearer before the law.
Similarly with needing to put lights on during the day; at the moment if I think it warrants then I'll put my sidelights on during the day. I don't need to be told to do this but if it becomes law in the UK I'm more than confident that I won't forget to put them on routinely.
It's not worth getting in a sweat about IMV.
Merry Christmas 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Claude B wrote: |
| Get a Volvo, job done! |
Or a Saab, mine doesn't have always on lights but I leave them on anyway and as its a Swedish car never get anyone flashing their lights to tell me mine are on!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just an observation, I think many more drivers use their sidelights on overcast days (anything other than full bright sunlight) than they used to a few years ago. I think it is becoming a habit already. I live in the north of England; perhaps it is a regional thing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm in rural Derbyshire and the numbers who have no lights, even in murky twilight conditions, round here horrifies me!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| red 27 wrote: |
For all those (non volvo drivers) in favour of this legislation, ask yourselves this:
Do you currently always use your lights in the daytime?
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No
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If the (honest) answer is (as I suspect) often 'no' then ask yourselves why not?
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Mainly because I think full headlights are overkill, while standard sidelights are not worth using from that point of view.
The Daylight Running Lights many cars are now fitted with are much better.
If my car had DRL then I would use them (even if you had the option to turn them off).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well, it was my first day back in Switzerland yesterday after spending Christmas/New Year in Blighty, and of course I completely forgot about it. I remembered this morning and on my 15 minute drive to work I'd say that around a third of cars still had their lights off (mind you it is a beautifully bright and sunny winter's day).
I'm surprised that I haven't seen any 'information' posters anywhere around here reminding you. A few months ago they ran a campaign to show the locals how to indicate at roundabouts, which seem to be an optional extra on most cars here to the frustration of most expats.
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You'd think they would have some reminders. Austria still has (or did last time I was there) the "Rettungsgasse" reminders, in English too.
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Given the number of people driving up the M40 without lights in torential rain this morning, DRL gets my vote.
Automatic lights are not the answer as they only come on in the dark - not when it is foggy, snowing, raining but can be light
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| Boris wrote: |
Automatic lights are not the answer as they only come on in the dark - not when it is foggy, snowing, raining but can be light |
Maybe it depends on the make of car, but mine come on automatically after three swipes of the wipers
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mine is an Audi - several years old, but it has (as well as automatic headlights), Daytime running lights that can be programmed on or off. With those and the automatic headlights there is never any chance of running the battery down as they go off when you switch the ignition off. The only time any manual override is needed is in snow when the light levels are high enough so the headlights don't come on manually - even then when you turn the engine off there is a loud buzzer warning of lights still on. It was actually MrsS who insisted we should have the DRLs on permanently - she is a full time professional driver and reckons it greatly improves the visibility of our (dark blue) car in many common driving conditions. (It also means I don't have to scroll lots of screen menus to reconfigure them when visiting countries where lights are required.)
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Two headlamps at 55 watts plus four sidelights at 5 watts equals 130 watts.
Alternator efficiency is around 50% so that requires 260 watts.
Petrol engine efficiency is around 25% so that requires 1040 watts.
In one hour that's 1040 x 60 x 60 = 3.744MJ.
Energy density of petrol is about 36MJ/l so you'll consume about 0.1 litre per hour just to run the lights.
Multiply that by the number of cars on the road at any time and the numbers get very big. And what about all the pollution that will generate.
Very silly law.
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FAQ
