 Poster: A snowHead
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I am lucky enough to be getting a down jacket for Xmas. In principle anyway.
I already have a Mountain Hardwear "Below Zero" vest, which is tremendous. It's only restriction being that I'm paranoid wearing it if it's likely to rain.
My two jacket candidates (at this point anyway) are the
Mountain Hardwear (MH) "Below Zero SL" jacket which is apparently waterproof
or
the MH "Phantom" which is vaguely water repellent (i.e. will cope with snow), has no hood but is significantly less bulky and lighter.
Any thoughts anyone? I have seen opinions elsewhere suggesting that if it's cold enough to need to wear down it's cold enough that it won't rain. I'm mostly going to use it round town/resort to and from the bar so I wonder whether waterproofness might not be more important.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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While on an avalanche safety course in -20C conditions last Jan all the hard-core British Columbians had down jackets that they wore underneath their waterproof shell jackets.
Down jackets seem to come with little bags to stuff them into while you're travelling. This implies that they can squash down okay under your normal ski jacket. Therefore I wouldn't worry about the waterproof-ness of the down jacket. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yeah, but this multiplies the Michelin man effect no end. In -20 I tend to use my patagonia R4 under my shell.
The thing will mostly be used casually/socially where I don't want to worry about layering too much.
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David Murdoch, I'd suggest that more important for a resort jacket is its resistance to burns, friend of mines jacket was ruined when the remains of a ciggarette dropped onto it melting a hole through the thin nylon outer
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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D G Orf, hmmm, a very good point but one that I doubt I'll solve.
I suppose I could get an F1 nomex suit though? I bet they do them with yellow trousers!
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Why doesn't he just go skiing?
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David Murdoch, I think the thing to check is that the outer fabric is not really lightweight, thicker nylon would not have melted so quickly
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You see more & more people skiing in them (not just punters  ). I've had one for a few years which I seemed to stop wearing, oddly (or not), the only times it ever comes out is when I'm doing things like avalanche courses. I've just passed it on to my father for wearing in the garden.
I've also just bought a brand new 'puffa' for my resort coat. It had to be warm enough to wear around resort with just a t-shirt (maybe a thin sweatshirt / fleece) underneath. As it was primarily going to be a pub jacket I was over the moon when I found a Primark jacket for £11 (the wife dragged me in). It's not down, but is pretty warm - tested over the last few days but only to -2 but I can see a decent comfort range in it. And it doesn't matter how much beer gets spilt over it, I'm hoping to keep the number of cigarette burns down as it'll probably go up in 2 seconds. Good fit and not the ugliest jacket I've ever seen so pretty happy with it.
Maybe go for el cheepo yourself and then spend the other £150 on something else, with buttons, or something.
Otherwise, two good choices. Obviously avoid a Nuptse, great jacket - just a little, how do you say? chav? (sorry  ) Also check to see what RAB have out. The main choice for me would be the durability of the other shell, even over how waterproof/phobic it is. Some down jackets are very lightweight so the manufacturers go for equally lightweight fabrics.
Try not to get it too wet whatever. Use Nixwax Down wash and perhaps a proofer to help keep it better, longer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The benchmarks always used to be the Mountain Equipment Lightline (active winter or summer alpine climbing) or Annapurna (sitting on belays in winter). Rab Nuptse supposed to be good too. They used to be avaiable in a number of shells (e.g., waterproof goretex or water repellant pertex) but I'm out of touch now. Personally I reckon if its raining then its far too warm to be wearing a down jacket. The goretex options tended to be aimed at expedition use where they might get exposed to snow melting in tents etc rather than rain.
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Thanks all, I do want to have a look at the Rab's.
The "if it's raining it's too warm" argument I think is valid in the context of climbing where one has layers underneath and a shell above.
parlor's scenario of just wanting something handy to haul over a t-shirt on the way to the Farm (mwoi, mwoi, darleeng) is closer to my typical use case so unless the Phantom is really cool, I'll go for the slightly more robust BZ SL. (those were air kisses by the way. Couldn't find a suitable smiley)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I used to have a Jack Wolfskin liner that zipped into a goretex jacket. It was like a luxury duvet I wore it about twice, but never used it again as I never encountered conditions cold enough. A january night in Val Thorens doing Sentry duty would have been perfect, but as soon as Ii exercised I just overheated.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Down for social wear at night is about as good as there is, though I really rate my flying jacket, its good for sleeping on stations in the winter... don't ask..!!
I keep my skiing jackets seperate from social use now and down would be too warm on the hill anyway, I think.
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I'd second the recommendation for Rab - I've got an old 'active' range jacket (lower fill power than their Expedition range at the time) that kept me warm through all sorts of brutal weather while coaching rowers on the Cam. Utterly comfortable (although not more than showeproof) but now looking a little battered after 9 years use. Only possible quibble is that (or they used to be) rather functional in design and perhaps not the most stylish.
A friend has a North Face parka with 550 fill power down and a fairly waterproof looking shell. Furry trim on the hood too. Bit retro and looks pretty good.
Nuptse (also TNF, not Rab) is just too shiny...
Wouldn't want to ski in anything with down though, would be far too hot!
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You know it makes sense.
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JT, I used to have a very long, heavy coat that was great for sleeping anywhere. Just wrap it round.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi DM,
Expect OH has vetoed that coat now....!! But hey, gets you a new Down jacket which will earn its money...!
Friends use ME and NF down jackets but they may have 'steal' appeal.. !!
Booking Engelberg/Andermatt soon for mid jan... how about you..? Sorry for the hijack.!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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JT, oooh, am seriously tempted...let me look at logistics.
The coat (it was Jaeger BTW and darn good quality) eventually wore out (after 3 years at University and one complete ski season). Got slept in on floors many, many times.
I'm quite excited about a new jacket although I do not see myself skiing in it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch,
Too warm for sking and a bit michelin man...total no, no, I have said....Besides you don't want to out on the town in a jacket you have skied in all day...!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sleasyjet Luton/Basel daily and 2 hr 15 mins train to Engelberg, one stop..!! Damn! Double hijack..sorry guys but he owns the thread and we are talking about the nitty gritty here...!!
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JT, Be aware that you have to get a bus from the airport to the train station in Basel
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've got a Rab jacket - saved my life on climbing trips. I've worn it under gore tex outer coat before now and found it lovely and warm. When in bars you can just put it in the stuff sack and hang it from your belt.
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Hi blueskix,
Did the trip last year and the bus trip is a chore but only 2.5 chf..... The taxi is about 40chf..!!
I thought they were putting in a rail link...!!
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I have a Rab summit extreme which is resting in the cupboard, i'm just waiting for the weather to get cold enough to use.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sounds very nice 
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smurfabig, congratulations on bumping a 6 year old thread!
You are obviously wanting to spam your own products, but your ability to use the search function is so impressive that I think your post deserves to stay.
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