 Poster: A snowHead
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Last year some motoring sites were suggesting that 98ron petrol was to be withdrawn throughout France this year; now there seems to be no mention of it. Can anyone enlighten those of us with fuel fussy cars? Is it like the breathalyser law that was but is`nt but could be?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't see how that would be possible because a lot of 95 petrol contains up to 10% ethanol which damages pre-2000 engines.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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cstreat, are you serious? Almost every petrol station I visited had 98 on offer, it may happen that some budget petrol station (supermarket owned or similar) would offer 95 only. Total, Shell, BP all have 98 as far as I remember
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Just driven from Biarritz to Calais. All stations had 98 including supermarket and local stations. I've been driving this route for years and never heard this story. LPG also available every where.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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> never heard this story
It was probably on peanutski.eu or alpydhuez.net 
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This has to be a wind up, there's quite a few cars that only run on high octane fuel. The better half's TT for one which means all turbo's Audi's and VW's I think are the same, and my 330Ci BM requires it too.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I don't see how that would be possible because a lot of 95 petrol contains up to 10% ethanol which damages pre-2000 engines. |
I can never remember which is which, but 95 is the cheaper one isnt it?
I just put the cheaper one in, and i'm pretty sure the car is old than 2000. Never had any side effects though 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think any EU spec car should accept 95 but might not be tuned for it as the preferred fuel. UK tends to be mostly 95 (supermarkets IME, pretty much only do 95).
If your car prefers 98, you'll probably know that, and it'll say it inside the filler flap. That'll be all VW/Audi/Seat petrol turbos for starters. If you fill with 95, the only side effect you ought to notice is that the fuel consumption goes up.
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might just try 98, fuel consuption is pretty crap, but never really do enough miles for it too matter.
cheers Andy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I always used 95 in my 330i and my CupraR ( which was the 225 Turbo Audi engine) and never had a problem. The ECU will allow for the lower octane. The only real difference as far as i could see was lower fuel consumption.
I would say you would be ok, just don't nail it all the way home (this is not professional advice or recommendation, nail it/don't nail it at your own risk)
The absolute only time I ever had a problem with lower octane fuel was when I fitted the V8 out of a Rover P5b Coupe into my 88" Landrover. The P5B V8 was designed for 5 Star ( 101 Octane ) and it used to 'Pink' like hell when i was chasing XR3i's, but that was easily fixed by either retarding the ignition or running it on AvGas (part of the reason I started my PPL which is a whole other story)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| andy wrote: |
| I think any EU spec car should accept 95. |
Check the pumps, they have a warning not to fill pre 2000 cars with SP95 containing ethanol. It ruins the injectors and burns out the valves.
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| davidof wrote: |
| andy wrote: |
| I think any EU spec car should accept 95. |
Check the pumps, they have a warning not to fill pre 2000 cars with SP95 containing ethanol. It ruins the injectors and burns out the valves. |
Bit of a blanket statement, especially as there are cars that were built both before and after 2000 with the exact same engine components that have no issue (e.g. my 2002 MX5). Any sources?
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You know it makes sense.
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If you have an early (ours is 2001) Audi TT, the manual tells you that you must always use 97-98 RON or the world will end. Our old Corrados used to prefer 98 as does my 330Ci, but it's not the end of the world if one should use 95, but both cars would return less mpg and not perform as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mine's a similar era (might be early 2002) Leon Cupra (1.8 20VT, probably same engine). Manual says 98. Filler flap sticker says 98, but 95 is usable. I use 97-98 for 95% of the time. the other 5% is in UK usually, where 98 isn't on every single pump like on mainland EU.
(BP/Aral sell 97 rather than 98 for some reason)
edit: and I've never noticed a warning on pumps about pre-2000 cars, but then tbf, I've not needed to look.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think the manufacturer's recommendations are a bit biased, however. To use the TT as an example, they will not be changing the injectors and valves to sell the cars into different countries. Remap the ECU perhaps, but no significant mechanical changes within the engine (maybe exhaust or other ancillaries).
In the US, regular fuel is 92-93 RON (in some states, it's into the 80s) and 'super' is 97, but with a 10% ethanol component already, and I'm pretty sure they won't have put different valves and injectors in the US cars, just a remap and/or different ECU.
The issue with E10 is that it has a slightly lower octane rating than 95RON, so certainly, a carb'd engine with no control over fuelling would be better suited to use 98RON, but that's not to say it wouldn't be worth trying it with a lower octane rated fuel. Valve seat erosion, which is the expected problem using a lower RON fuel, hasn't been quite as problematic as expected in older cars when they stopped the use of leaded fuel and I don't think it'd be a problem here either. An ECU equipped car will adjust the fuelling for the lower RON and you might end up with changes in power and economy, but I don't think it'd wreck the engine, certainly won't affect injectors.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As an aside, with the old Corrados a few years ago we did numerous tests filling with different petrol specs. The cheaper supermarket fuel always returned less mpg (to the tune of about 10% less miles per tank  ) than the same RON from a high street forecourt garage. My BM still goes further on french petrol than on uk juice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I am pretty sure it was the removal of lead from leaded fuel which caused VSR (or Erosion) not the lower octane. Most cars post the 4* era have hardened valve seats to allow for this
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I ask as I run a mapped Impreza, which has to have 99Ron (Shell nitro UK, or Tesco Momentum). Travelling through France, I have the timing knocked back a bit for 98Ron. Shell nitro France is 98Ron
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cstreat, Could you just take some octane booster stuff with you? This works for our old air cooled car which is fussy. We use Millers VSP.
That Shell Nitro is good stuff - went from 24mpg to 28 mpg using that in our Merc C63 AMG. I haven't done the maths but i should think that the increase in economy balances the extra cost of the fuel and it runs more smoothly than ever on it.
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Octane booster is quite expensive, but also damages catalysers.
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cstreat, the car we treat to Octane booster is too old for a cat. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Been doing a bit more reading, and it's quite an interesting topic. I haven't done much research into the changes in fuels recently, as I've been concentrating on electric and hybrid technologies.
Octane isn't the only issue with Ethanol, it's the dissolved oxygen causing accelerated corrosion of steel components.
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