 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi folks!
I'm thinking of doing a season in Austria in the winter of 09/10 and just looking at all the things I need to arrange. I wonder if anyone can offer any advice in terms of insurance cover. I appreciate that Austria being in the EU there is a degree of emergency cover for Brits, but would prefer the peace of mind of having my own cover, particularly medical cover
I currently have an Annual Travel Polciy with Insureandgo but I think that there is a concept of trips and a maximum duration per trip, plus an overall maximum for winter sports per annum
For those of you that have done a season in Europe, do you have any recommendations for me, please. As well as being eye candy for the girlies  it is worthwhile giving Dog Tag Man a look?
Thanks a bunch!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sleipnir, I struggled to find a suitable policy for my son last season. Dog Tag were charming and friendly but absolutely useless when I pressed for a definition of "off piste" - despite an exchange on Snowheads. Their definition only made sense in North America and he was going to France. Anecdotally they seemed to be prepared to cover "lift served offpiste" (ie you go up a lift, and then only ski downwards, not hiking/skinning) but wouldn't confirm that in writing. So they were out as he spends as much time as possible off piste in the right conditions. He needed a policy which allowed a short trip back to the UK and many season policies don't. The trip limit on most annual policies is only 30 days though we have 60 with the Ski Club. In the end I got Nick a policy with Insure and Go who were flexible and he paid a bit extra to allow two trips home. Oddly, one outfit who advertised as insuring seasonal workers refused to cover Nick when I said he would be working as a chef! The Insure and Go policy seemed good, and included off piste without a guide, but he also took Carré Neige. Fortunately he didn't have any accidents.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sleipnir, try Natives. I'd also recommend Insureandgo, not that I've had a season policy with them, but that they were also flexible with me when I wanted to tweak their policy to suit my needs.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I tried the natives recommendation - which IIRC was Dogtag, but came up against a brick wall on the "off piste"definitions. There have been some past threads on this on Snowheads - I'm not the only one to have concluded reluctantly (as they seem good otherwise) that their inability to give a definition relevant to Europe ruled them out. I wouldn't want to have been having that discussion with them AFTER an accident off piste. One frustrating thing was that none of the (very polite and friendly) people I spoke to there, over several days, were skiers, so they didn't understand what I was getting at. Their website says that if you are skiing "outwith marked areas of the resort, you must only do so with a fully qualified local guide. " I couldn't get them to understand that this "resort boundary" business doesn't apply in the same way in Europe.
I actually think Snowheads might usefully pursue this with Dogtag.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sleipnir,
Check this out http://www.metrosnow.co.uk/index.php?id=225
so far to me it looks good and does not have many restrictions about reasons for travel.
Report back if you find anything good as I'm in the same boat
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Get it when you get there, speak to the local ski school, they'll sort you right out.
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RPF, that link is interesting. The annual cover only covers trips of up to a month but the single trip version can be up to 12 months. Expensive though - would be £240 for a four months season for a young person (more for oldies) and would probably exclude any trip back to the UK. If you are doing a straightforward single season the Ski Club seasonal cover is good, and quite a lot cheaper, though you do need to pay membership too.
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Thanks pam w thats worth knowing,
I usually get carte neige when I ski in France (Its the only place I've skied). But my season is looking more like Verbier every day. Is Carte Neige available in Switzerland or is there a Swiss equivalent?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sleipnir, Last year I used the Ski Club cover as it covered race training.
My wife used the Fogg Medi-card insurance which is excellent value, less than £100 IIRC.
Both are fine for off piste and cover you to work while away.
One thing to check with who ever you go with is the situation should you return home for a weekend or two. In some cases 'seasonal' policy's terminate should you return home.
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I took out British Mountaineering Council Alpine insurance, which covers you for pretty much anything you are likely to contemplate doing. Yes, it is expensive but if something goes wrong off piste then it may well be in a way that regular insurers will look to get out of coughing up for (e.g. you were on a glacier without a guide, the avalanche risk was too high, it was cold etc. etc.). You will then be screwed, particularly if your accident was an expensive one. Obviously if you are intending to spend most of your time on piste then this does not apply but you will be surprised how your objectives change as the season develops.
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/insurance/Policies.aspx#alpine
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The BMC cover looks very good - you need to be careful about trip lengths though, and pay for extended stays if necessary. I did find it surprisingly difficult to find a policy which would cover the whole season BUT allow for the possibility of a few trips home AND cover off piste without a guide. For example, the Fogg Medi-card annual insurance doesn't cover anything like enough days for someone doing a whole season.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I am spending a good few months in New Zealand over the summer, and I opted for the American Express annual prestigue insurance. If you pay the extra winter/extreme sports it covers you for off piste/heliskiing, and is £180 for a 12 month policy with max 120 day individual trip length.
The off-piste provision is quite generous. It just states:
1. You must observe the rules of your resort or Winter Sports
area. If in any doubt you should follow specialist local advice.
2. If you are an inexperienced skier or inexperienced
snowboarder you must not under any circumstances
attempt off-piste skiing or off-piste snowboarding unless
you are under the supervision of a guide.
3. Your guide’s advice and instructions must be strictly
followed at all times.
4. As a general rule you should exercise common sense and
follow sensible local practices.
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You know it makes sense.
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wilko1, welcome to Snowheads.  I think I'd be a bit wary about some of that wording. What is an "inexperienced snowboarder" and what are the "rules of the resort" with regard to off piste skiing in, say, the Espace Killy? When I tried to clarify with Dogtag they told me that off piste would be OK provided there were no local warnings of risks. I pointed out that there are always "avalanche risk" warnings, and even the lowest level of risk didn't mean there was no risk. Well, if there was any avalanche warning, they said, then you wouldn't be covered. The girl I was speaking to wasn't a skier, so I gave up and shopped elsewhere. All that kind of wording gives the insurer any number of reasons to wriggle out of the cover.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, thanks for your speedy reply and kind welcome. I see your point - I had not thought of that before and I will definitely try and check with Amex before I go. I'd like to think of myself as an experienced skier 
Worryingly, all insurance companies (including BMC) include some sort of condition that will stop them paying out if you 'deliberately put yourself at risk'. They can certainly try and argue that you plodding off piste with an avalanche warning of 4 or 5 is deliberately putting yourself at risk.
I will let you know what amex says.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, The Fogg cover we had did cover the whole season, being a specific 'workers' policy. If I recall, the issue was that the cover may be terminated should you have to return home for a few days (but that may not have been the case this year).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| 'deliberately put yourself at risk' |
That would be buying the lift ticket then. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmmmm, have I opened a can of worms!?? 
For those of you that mentioned Insureandgo, I have just spoken to them. As I said I have an annual Platinum Travel policy with them which allows me trips up to 90 days (any one trip) but the biggest problem is that it has restrictions over the maximum number of Winter Sports days - the max they will do is 31 days under their Annual policy
They could however offer a long term winter sports cover - I got them to quote from 1st Oct to 31st Mar and it was around £250 premium. You can play about with options to increase the cover/reduce the premium a few quid here and there, but that's the sort of money they were talking about. They also mentioned 'return home visits' - for an extra £12 you can cover yourself for 2 visits home (max duration 14 days each time) without cover cancelling
Do BASI offer (have a deal with anyone) regarding travel insurance cover? By the time I go (fingers crossed) I will have my level 1 under my belt and will be a member of BASI, so I wondered if they could offer something to their members...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sleipnir, the Insure and Go figure you quote is similar - pro rata - to what Nick paid, but his season didn't start till mid December so it wasn't so much.
That's the kind of money I think you're looking at for such a long trip with unlimited winter sport. There were very, very, few options I could find which gave that very useful option of a couple of short visits home. Nick did use that - he found life in Meribel rather boring (compared to Val D'Isere, where he spent a couple of seasons) so when the chalet was empty for a while he took the opportunity to slip back to Brighton to see his mates and get some Kulture.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sleipnir, I used Travelinsurance.co.uk which is insureandgo but fully internet based so a little cheaper but you end up with insureandgo insurance. Backpacker ski is pretty much your best with them i think. Mine cost me £117 for the season (not sure about return visits, i didn't make any). I didn't have personal belongings cover as the compnay i worked for covered that but the max it cost with that stuff was like £140. Check that link I posted earlier.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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One of the things I am going to invest in for my Austrian ski season is the following:-
http://www.bergrettung.at/ENGLISH.484.0.html
It looks to be the Austrian equivalent of carte neige. At 22 euros for the year (the whole family) it's a no brainer. When I was in Sölden at Easter the helicopter flew a couple of times. One of my ski buddies pointed out that my travel insurance would not cover the cost of the chopper so if I ever needed it, I would be footing the bill that would run into thousands of euros......
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Are you sure that your insurance wouldn't cover the helecopter? If it doesn't then you need to change your insurance company!
(or are you talking about SAR rather than accident recovery?)
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Have a look at these guys: http://www.mpibrokers.com/ . Not much on their website but give them a ring and have a chat. We do all of our staff insurance through them (as do quite a few other tour operators) so they are very much geared up to people being in the Alps for a good few months.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ctskifam, nice one. Best wording for off-piste skiing I have seen:
| Quote: |
OFF PISTE
Applicable only if you have taken out cover for Wintersports activities.
Many policies either exclude this or limit skiing ‘off piste’ to be with a guide. It is our
view that this is impratical as one can ski off piste unwittingly and in certain
circumstances it is possible to ski on ‘a pisted’ run which is designated off piste.
It is due to this type of confusion that we at MPI Brokers have negotiated with
underwriters that there is no such exclusion or limitation in this policy. There is
however a general requirement common to all insurance to behave in a reasonable
and sensible manner. |
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| pam w wrote: |
| Sleipnir, the Insure and Go figure you quote is similar - pro rata - to what Nick paid, but his season didn't start till mid December so it wasn't so much. |
I think you're doing well to pay less than 250 for a season for fully comp. incl off-piste. I paid close to double that with Skiclub - ok so it definitely wasn't the cheapest but it seemed very comprehensive. I guess if I was more into climbing then the BMC deal seems a good idea. Personally I'd rather pay an extra £100 upfront than be stuffed with the risk of an £1xxx bill later on.
As Pam W has said - watch for the 'single-trip' policies, as based on the investigations I did these stop when you go home even if only for a 2-4 day trip in the middle of a long season as official thats the 'end' of your trip as far as insurance co is concerned.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think the key thing is to phone up companies and talk to them. I suspect that many of them will put together a package for you that they don't advertise on their website.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What consequences would there be if you simply took out single trip insurance with a (different) airline to travel to England and back each time you wanted to return.
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snowball, single trip policies, just the straightforward ones you buy with your ticket, might well not cover someone who is working for a living. On the whole I think Elizabeth B is right. It was only when I talked to companies that I got anywhere - and even when they said "no way, we won't cover someone working as a chef" that was progress. I became very frustrated trying to do it on the internet.
Don't forget that you don't necessarily have to give your insurance company false information to find you have problems. Failing to tell them something which is relevant might also be grounds for them to turn down your claim.
It was the Insure and Go backpackers which Nick used, and they seemed responsive and helpful on the phone.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, you (perhaps) misunderstood me - I meant get the season insurance and if t doesn't cover you going home a couple of times just get one-off flight insurance for the trips home.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks bertie bassett, some interesting and very useful stuff in your posts. If you are going to be at Hemel on Sat, I may well bend your ear
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I meant get the season insurance and if t doesn't cover you going home a couple of times just get one-off flight insurance for the trips home.
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I'm pretty sure that would invalidate your long term insurance - it just wouldn't be worth the risk, to save a few bob. I've just been sorting out some old papers and come across the certificate for my son's insurance, (Insure and Go Backpacker) which was £126 for cover from 16 December to 06 May, including the option of two trips back to the UK.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I used direct travel on a single trip policy with wintersports cover. Cost less than £90 but only because I wasn't working. Reminds me I really need to fill in my claim form.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A friend's son used World Nomads and had a very bad experience with them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sorry for bringing this thread up again, but have other people noticed that the typical cover with most insurers, included for the loss of lift passes seems to be based around that of the value of a standard one week trip i.e. nowhere near enough for a season pass. Any ideas? Is this maybe because season passes are personal and therefore can be void and re-issued?
Apologies if the thread already exists; complete newbie here.
Cheers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Yoshiesque wrote: |
Sorry for bringing this thread up again, but have other people noticed that the typical cover with most insurers, included for the loss of lift passes seems to be based around that of the value of a standard one week trip i.e. nowhere near enough for a season pass. Any ideas? Is this maybe because season passes are personal and therefore can be void and re-issued?
Apologies if the thread already exists; complete newbie here.
Cheers. |
When I bought mine last year then I was also given a receipt, I had to keep the receipt so if I lost the pass I could go to the office get the old one canned and a new one issued. After all the only think unique about the pass is the 'id' number - the rest of the intelligence is on the central computer.
Never had to try it out for real however
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Yeah that's what I figured. Suppose I'd be best to check with the resort.
Thanks though.
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By way of a short update (as I started the thread) I've arranged my seasonaire's insurance via MPI Brokers - thanks for the recommendation ctskifam.
For 6 months European cover with their 'bells and whistles' Excel cover I paid circa £400. It included unlimited trips back to the UK - thanks for pointing that factor out to me as many of the people I spoke to would cancel cover as soon as I step back in the UK
I could have probably got it a few quid cheaper by opting for lesser cover, limited (or no) return trips to the UK but thought that I'd prefer to have the widest possible cover. Was really impressed with MPI Brokers. Have yet to see how their claims handling goes (hope that I don't get to experience it) but if their sales/new business is anything to go by, I am hoping it will be good
One other purchase I will be making for my skiing in Austria is one of these - http://www.bergrettung.at/ENGLISH.484.0.html
Will be the best 22 euros I ever spend (again, hoping that I never get to use it!!!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't think displaying that poor iceman is right. It must be distressing for his family.
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FAQ
