Braehead snowdome makes helmets compulsory

A snowHead

In a move which makes it very rare indeed, the Braehead indoor snow slope in Scotland (near Glasgow) has stated that all users must wear helmets. As far as I'm aware, only the state of Nova Scotia in Canada makes helmets compulsory by law in its ski areas.
I don't know of any ski resort internationally which has made helmets compulsory, of its own accord.
Anyone know any different?

Here are the terms and conditions, and advised 'what to wear', at the UK's snowdomes. Tamworth appears to have the most liberal policy:

Snow Factor, Braehead
Terms and conditions / what to wear:
http://www.snowfactor.com/info/company/terms.php
http://www.snowfactor.com/info/slope/faq.php

A snowHead

Tamworth has signs up the changing/kit hire area saying you have to wear helmets if using the jumps and rails, they have helmets you can borrow.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

What next? Only a matter of time before the following become compulsory:

- High visibility jackets.
- Goggles.
- Harnesses (for crevasse rescue....you just never know).
- Transceivers (the snow cannons could develop a fault and go berserk....)

I think that their business will suffer. I never wear a helmet (personal preference) - so now wouldn't go there.

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I've reached the point where any enforcement of helmets probably has a commercial motive - nothing would please the helmet industry more than legislation or rule-making. Any slope operator/resort/ski school etc. enforcing helmets should be asked why ...

... For example, why should a parent/guardian of a child not be given the freedom to decide whether their child wears a helmet?

Chill Factore and Tamworth - above - have the most enlightened and liberal policies. All the others are various forms of 'unacceptable', in my view.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Comedy Goldsmith, and should the parents have the "right" to let their child not wear a seatbelt, or to slide down the slope on tea trays?

Kids are not the property of their parents.

Indoor snow slopes are high collision zones, not always well policed by the staff. Kids heads are soft. The slope seems to feel its part of their duty of care.

Rather than being a result of a snow-helmet-military-industrial-complex the move towards lids is increasing evidence of reduced risk of injury (not of death... Yet...). Not everything is a conspiracy.

And helmets are compulsory now for kids in Italy and Norway as well as many US resorts. As I'm sure you know. Are you really sure all the US resorts which insist on lids have been compelled rather than chosen to do so, and if so, what about the others??

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I suspect fear of litigation and the potential for insurers to disclaim liability are the biggest drivers.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

stoat of the lid, since when (as a one-time parent of children under the age of 14/16 - NB two of the slopes above choose different age thresholds) ...

... do I become incapable of making a responsible decision about my kids' safety?

It isn't the law that children have to wear ski helmets in this country, and adults assume the duty of care when skiing with their children - not the snowdome. Note that Snow Centre (above) enforce helmets for children skiing with parents ... and adults taking lessons. Why? If I go to an ice-rink for lessons, do I have to wear a helmet? (genuine question - I don't know).

After all it is free

fatbob, that's a bit satirical!

There's no question that the helmet industry has been engaged in disseminating false head injury data. This has nothing to do with me being a dinosaur, dodo or obsolete human being. Play the lid ... not the man!

[P.S. I've added an acknowledgment to the opening post, since it was a fellow snowHead who very usefully pointed out the situation at Braehead]

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re helmets/ice skating - not at any rink I've been to. However, my Canadian relatives were horrified at our video clips of our (young) children figure skating without helmets, apparently they usually wear helmets in Canada at their rink.

re adults assuming duty of care - I don't believe its that simple. If something happens to your child at a snowdome, the snowdome can still bear responsibility; just because there's a parent with the child doesn't move all responsibility to the parent. Furthermore, you'd have to have a very high opinion of the human race if you think all parents will always act in a way that you consider responsible.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Interestingly enough I have never encountered helmet wearing in Ice Skating rinks, and in all honesty I could see there being a better reason to wear them there than on a slope......as ultimately snow is just a wee bit softer than an Ice Skating rink!

snow reports

mbikerdav, Funnily enough, I have ! I visit Dundee ice rink each week and on a Wednesday morning there is an "older" lady taking lessons who always wears a helmet. Thought it looked strange the first time I saw her, but a few weeks ago a lass took a bad tumble and cracked her head so maybe the old girl is not so daft ! She's the only one I've seen.

Have a look at the photos on the Braehead website. All the instructors are wearing....woolly hats!!
http://www.snowfactor.com/slope/beginner/snowboard.php

Fatbob, If Tamworth etc can get insurance without insisting on lids, why not Braehead? I think they are just taking the easy way out to avoid any chance of being sued, it is not responsible risk assessment it is just laziness. The old legal definition of a "reasonable person" has now become "the most safety conscious person you can think of". What is next, compulsory back protectors, maybe knee/elbow pads a la skatepark.

I have no objection to people wearing helmets, but it should be at their own choice because it is their head.

I am certainly not going there again.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

fatbob,

A snowHead

Comedy Goldsmith, Do you have any evidence for your apparent implication that Helmet manufacturers like Giro are in some way acting dishonestly

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I think its a good thing.

If everyone's wearing a helmet it sets a fine example to the kids. Not necessarily because their at much risk in the dome but when they go out on real snow they will be. Especially in Scotland.

Helmets I think can be pretty cool these days anyway; all the big athletes wear them!

As long as they don't charge (much) for helmet rental I don't see it really effecting their business at all. Nowhere else to go!

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Hey Goldsmith, were you there in the 80s campaigning against rear seatbelts in cars?! "It's my right to be killed by my projectile progeny and risk his life in the process, enough nanny state!"

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Helmets are compulsory at Castleford if you are using the bump run, it was a real PIA having to take my helmet off at the bottom to let my head cool down and then put it back on at the top.

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Come to think of it, brae head sounds like a nasty injury.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

They only passed the rule to get the free mentions on snowHeads Laughing

After all it is free

I don't see anything wrong with snow domes making ski helmets compulsory. Also, I don't see any brainwashing being done by the helmet manufactures.

http://www.pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=NjI4Ng==

Is Mr Salmond involved?

If we become independent will it be compulsory to wear helmets while ski-ing anywhere in Scotland?

Need to check the white paper when its published and challenge doorstep canvassers over the coming months. Laughing

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muppet, If that fat p***k gets his way Skiing will be banned, unless of course we are prepared to take a dozen scroungers with us, all in the interests of equality will say the Dear Leader/Imperator/Fuehrer or whatever else it decides on? Evil or Very Mad

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Comedy Goldsmith, on a more serious note the application of the minimum skiing/boarding ability standards as published at Braehead has IME been so woefully absent that I have always worn my helmet there anyway! Shocked

snow reports

Not so 'barehead' any more are they? Eh readers?

robboj,

You must have been at Braehead the same day as us. The required minimum standard to use the slope looked like something from the BBC 3 program in Val D'Isere last night.

The muppet, household has started planning incase Soapy Salmond gets his way. Think it might be cheaper to sell up and move to Courchevel Toofy Grin

You know it makes sense.

^ Vote no if you have good reasons.
However don't let yourself get brainwashed into believing Scotland is too small / wee / stupid.
Scotland could easily afford to be independent if it wished.
Even David Cameron admits so himself.

p.s Braehead is indeed enforcing a "helmet rule". Take your own as the rental ones are mingin.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I would think its probably being driven by the current litigation culture. You know, the 'where there is blame there is a claim mob'. If there is an injury in a snowdome I can just imagine the suits getting really chuffed if they think they can pin it on lack of helmet enforcement. Just like that Go-Karting incident recently where the owners got done for not enforcing safe attire on a private staff session where a woman got a scarf caught and it choked her. Look at it from another perspective if helmet wearing was as common as seat belt wearing we would all expect a snow dome to get done if they allowed someone to ski without a helmet and an injury occurred - just like the woman allowed to go-kart whilst wearing a scarf. I wouldn't want to be a snowdome owner and have to make the call on the helmet issue, but I think most people are terrified of litigation these days and I don't blame any snowdome owners for deciding to enforce helmet wearing.

Helmets are enforced at riding stables, they are enforced at go-kart tracks, on cycle race tracks, during speedway events, BMX riding courses, I don't climb but I would be surprised if it wasn't enforced for private climbing wall venues etc. Yes, I note the points made about not during ice skating - but was interested that Canada enforced it where skating is very popular. There seems to be more cases of helmet wearing for organised sports in organised venues than not IME - I even went to learn to paddle a kyack for a couple of hours on a calm lake and had to wear one. These places are offering potentially dangerous sports and with current where there is blame there is a claim mob there must be all sorts of potential to be sued.

Yes, I take on board all the points that your noggin might not be the most common bit of someone that is injured, and yes, its different if you are out in the big outdoors and taking responsibility for your own safety. However, I think the moment you step into someone else's facility or a trainer takes you for a lesson then they are legally obliged to keep you safe and I think their insurance bills must be through the roof anyway. I am amazed that helmet wearing in these places hasn't been compulsory for ages. I would suggest that folks stop going in off the deep end in this instance because it affects their right to choose (and people know that for other issues I think it vitally important that personal choice is maintained so don't get me wrong here), and think of the responsibility of the centres and the trainers over all sorts of sports vs. the current litigation climate. I don't think they have much choice in the issue IMO and I bet the others soon follow.

For the record, yes, I wear a helmet out of choice for all my skiing.

A snowHead

Since snowdomes are essentially no different to groomed, patrolled and landscaped ski runs on a mountain there's absolutely no reason for their operators to enforce helmet use.

Maybe Braehead could explain on this thread how on earth they justify their policy, given the comprehensive absence of helmet enforcement on European mountains.

If anyone can provide photographic proof of helmet enforcement in Dutch/French/German snowdomes it would be interesting to see it ... or to know of their policies.

A snowHead

P.S. I predict that skiers (who care) are going to have to fight continually for their freedoms of action, given the scare-mongering and other dubious marketing we've seen from the helmet industry ... which is probably very keen to secure the 'compliance' of skiers currently not wearing helmets.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Comedy Goldsmith, the density of skiers on a dome slope is I suspect rather higher than most slopes in the alps. More density, more collisions etc...

Are you going to give us evidence that ski helmet industry is being dishonest in pursuit of commercial gain? I did ask nicely.

If you can't, your whole argument looks a bit shonky and fatbobs initial post rather on the nail. And we'll all see you impugned them with no evidence if you can't.

I'll leave it at that.

Megamum, precisely.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Lots of places have compulsory helmet usage - the terrain park in Whistler, for example.

I would like to see the head injury statistics from these places. If this is evidence-based, then why not make the data public? What's their accident rate, and how many of those accidents would have had different outcomes should the people concerned have been wearing helmets? As you can't actually get that much speed up at at a dome it may be that people are riding slow enough there for a helmet to be of some use, so perhaps their statistics are more encouraging for helmet fans than those from the industry overall.

Personally I find the main risk there is incompetent people; most of them already wore helmets: perhaps they believe that having a lid means they don't need to learn how to ride in control? Personally, I would happily take the slope operators to court should I be injured through their failure to police their slopes. I do not believe an English court (I realize the OP is about Scotland) would qualify damages based on helmet usage, although they may try.

In what way is "insurance" an issue? They are not insuring me; they are insuring themselves against negligence. If they *suggest* that I wear a condom or a helmet or whatever, and if I fail to do that, then that's my problem. Their insurers do not come into it.

Let's just hope no English actor falls over in the car park of a snow dome, and then refuses to go to A&E! Actually if you kept the thing on whilst driving home you would actually reduce your risk: as responsible adults you owe it to your children to do that.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Hmmm...

David posted a reply with a selection of rather irrelevant links... Some from articles 7 years ago, some actually supporting helmets...

...and he has deleted it. So much for that.

David. Hope you get some great snow this year. snowHead

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

^

That would be Woodand v Essex County Council. There's a discussion at http://www.walkermorris.co.uk/business-insights/end-school-swimming-lessons - it's quite a specialised case, which is why it went all the way to the Supreme Court and I don't see any parallels to Braehead.

The suggestion that the presence of a parent absolves a facility from duty of care towards a customer who is a minor is certainly incorrect.

The relevant doctrine as far as an operator such as Braehead is concerned is "Volenti non fit injuria" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volenti_non_fit_injuria - which broadly states that you are responsible for risks you choose to take. However there are at least two significant limitations. Firstly children are deemed to have a reduced capacity to assess risk according to their age (Gough v Thorns). Secondly the Unfair Contract Terms Act nullifies a contract term where a consumer absolves a supplier from responsibility for negligence resulting in injury or death.

Since you raise sailing, I'm sometimes responsible for running competitive sailing events and have to fill in lovely risk assessment forms before I can sound the starting horn. There's a sailing rule that competitors are responsible for their own risks but clubs have long since stopped relying on that as absolving them from all responsibility for risk, especially when running events for children.

("Infant mortality" means death to children of one year old or less http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality - not too sure that has much to do with snowdomes.)

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Braehead snowdome makes helmets compulsory

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