 Poster: A snowHead
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A little bird tells me new Canton of Geneva rules were made in September, but only now becoming public! If my source is correct, Geneva will be requiring all (non-swiss) transfer drivers to have a valid swiss work-permit to pick-up and set-down at GVA. The paperwork to apply needs to be submitted by the end of November to get permits in time for the start of the season! Cue huge panic for transfer companies who even if they know who their drivers are to be, are not easily able to contact them to get the supporting documents. Also apparently the permit available is for 90 day duration, ie not great for a 5 month season!
This seems to be a reaction to the forced withdrawal of the requirement to buy the 400CHF vehicle airport licence, which has been ruled illegal. No doubt the Geneva taxi mafia demanded some quid-pro-quo to maintain their robust level of protectionism. I doubt french taxi drivers will be included.
It's a famously murky world of rumour and confusion so I could be completely wrong, but for those smaller operators out there who may not be blessed with on-the-ball lawyers/accountants, please make your own enquiries. No doubt someone better informed that I will be along to correct, confirm, or harangue me shortly!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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shep, Flippin 'eck that should stop all the non-registered bus transfers and the chalet owners with their own vans. As its a public holiday today in France I bet that deadline is this Friday!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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shep, ah the joy of vested interests. I wonder how they're going to make this work, I know that Alpybus have some Swiss registered buses as one of them parks near us (edit) couldn't strike thru, Alpybus is a Swiss company. And the official word on work permits is,
"SERVICE PROVIDERS FROM EU-17, EU-8 AND EFTA COUNTRIES Nationals from EU-17, EU-8 and EFTA countries are entitled to provide permit free services for up to 90 working days per service provider/sending company and calendar year. here is, however, an obligation to report to the authorities. As a rule, this may be done online."
I think transfers are services?
Mind you, the GE gov and the French are at all sorts of loggerheads right now over frontaliers, the CEVA project, medical insurance, etc...
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 11-11-13 14:35; edited 1 time in total
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boredsurfin, Wasn't that mostly all stopped last winter?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, Looks like they are out to change 'mostly' to all 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just got all the info in on this. It actually looks relatively straight-forward, as long as you jump through all the hoops.
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Our application went off today so I'll let you know how it goes.
I think the 90 days is 90 days total (ie of the driver being in switzeland) not 90 consecutive days - so actually quite well adapted to winter-season work . . .
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Aye, that's my understanding as well. We do summers too, and I still don't expect to exceed 90 days - we're only at the airport once a week...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes that was my interpretation too so 2160 hours in total is nearly 6 hours per day every day of next year..
Andy
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Yes that was my interpretation too so 2160 hours in total is nearly 6 hours per day every day of next year..
Andy
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wacky suggestion, why don't the firms relocate to the French side of the airport.
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Heads and/or egos need banging together here
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You know it makes sense.
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jbob, the link I posted addresses that, says 500 minibuses trying to fit round there would be chaos.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Where are all those Snowheads who castigate the French for being protectionist.
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Poster: A snowHead
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emwmarine, All still here I would imagine..... just because the Swiss are at it doesn't mean the French have stopped! 
So albinomountainbadger's post seemed to sum things up (and it seems gives the lie to my prediction that french taxi drivers would not be included). A little more detail came my way; although the Swiss request for the "Certificate of Qualification" looks unreasonable given that no such thing exists in France, that's apparently not the full story.
It seems as part of the Schengen negotiations whereby Switzerland opened it's borders to the EU, they told the french this certificate or equivalent would be required for those workers included in the current stand-off. The French authorities duly created and presented a sample certificate in order for the negotiations to advance, with the promise that they would follow through and introduce it domestically. Since then they've done nothing about it, so it's a little disingenuous of them to claim the swiss are asking for something which doesn't exist!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Transfer drivers working 4-5 days a week should be within the 90 day limit, but it looks to me like it means per company rather than per driver.
A transfer company with 20 vans would do more than that in a week. But an individual chalet owner doing one or two trips a week would be fine.
Previously for cat B a Transport de Voyagers licence has only been required of the company not the individual drivers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bit of a minor detail but from reading around in other places, it seems the genevois taxi drivers are completely on their own here, the average Swiss person considers them to be a bunch of surly conmen. I'm wondering if this anti foreigner stuff is therefore being brought in to soften them up to other changes in Geneva - saw mention of a centralised register being setup (and as you'd expect, strikes against it...).
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albinomountainbadger, in general, Geneva taxis have got better in the 7 years I've been here, at least now you can reserve in advance, e.g.foor an early flight.
But they are indeed a bunch of surly conmen.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Since then they've done nothing about it
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The Rhone Alps prefecture are happily issuing them for transport companies (ie those with transport licenses) - although I assume they are making them up on the spot using word as there don't seem to be examples online anywhere . . .
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well that's progress! Although do you mean to the company, or the drivers for transport companies? Since the Swiss requirement is that the individual driver proves he has relevant qualifications/experience and has never been excluded/banned from doing the work.
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Hi shep - to the company as far as I know. I believe from what we've had through in paperwork (although I'm by no means an expert) that the attestation is for the company, and then the proof of qualifications/experience are for the individual driver - that's how I read it anyway.
We haven't heard back from our application yet but I'll keep you posted. . .
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But, the prefecture were (unusually!) super-helpful with us on the phone so it's probably worth calling and asking . . .
I got the distinct impression that they were as irritated with the Swiss authorities as everyone else is!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's all quite confusing and to make matters worse the Swiss authorities didn't give the information until very late. We contacted them to renew our Swiss canton licence from last year early on and there was no mention on the new procedure. We then received a letter on the 5/6th of nov with a deadline of the 15th of nov!
It was fairly straight forward though as you could register online and send all your licensing and qualification documents off by post.
There is a lot of rumour and second guessing but IMO if you have all the correct paperwork then the only issue is the 90 day limit. With a 20 week this could limit the amount of transfers we can do.
As far as I understand it, the only companies with problems would be the smaller companies with a licence where transfers are not their sole business so although they are licences they didn't need to be a qualified transport operator. Or the big companies as (depending on interpretation) each driver would need to prove a qualification or documented experience for a number of year. Luckily for the big companies they have more weight to throw around so I'm sure something will get sorted.
It may be a big overreaction and being slightly misreported as being a lot worse than it actually is. I'm all for making sure that the unregistered and unlicensed companies are dealt with but it's frustrating when it effects the companies who do jump through hoops!
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I think a lot of french taxi drivers are having problems too - especially self-employed. The prefecture says
"Notre ministère a entamé des négociations avec les autorités suisses au sujet de cette problématique qui concerne de nombreux professionnels des transports."
Our minister has begun negociations with the swiss authorities with regards to this problamatic subject which applies to numerous transport professionals
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm confused about what is going on here (we don't do transfers ourselves but we do recommend British and French transfer companies to people so I would like to understand the situation).
Current situation is...
90 days access to Geneva for airport pick ups per company?
All drivers going to Geneva with paying passengers now required to have taken the Operator's License exam (not just the company owner in the case of chalet licenses)?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This is just my understanding so can't say for sure.
The 90 days is per worker/driver
The driver needs a qualification or to be able to prove experience.
The qualification wouldn't need to be an operator cpc, you can do a driver cpc in passenger transport which is a much shorter and less in depth course.
Experience needs to be 2 years and documented.
Again, much of this is down to interpretation and I don't think anyone knows for sure yet.
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I've been told that it's journos making more out of it than there actually is.
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You know it makes sense.
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Tell that to some of my mates who are seriously worried about their livelihood, don't know whether to even accept bookings or cancel those they have; and all the one van chalet companies who can't get a CPC and can't get availability to farm their transfers out even if they could afford to. Flouting these rules is a criminal offence not a parking ticket, and someone will be made an example of.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The 90chfs is to register your paperwork in Bern. Have sent mine to test the water.
The 400chfs was paid to the Canton of Geneva direct(but was illegal) I have paid for 6 years now. 2400chfs. Not expecting a refund to appear.
I have held a LOTI (French transport licence) for 11 years. Been driving in the alps for 16. But the French law changes in Dec 2014.
So I now have to go and get either a French(diploma) or UK international CPC which allows me to run a large coach company internationally.
Bit OTT for a one man one van operation.
As our B&B/SC accomodation has clients arriving/departing on any day(ie not just weekends) I will probably exceed the 90 days in a year quite quickly.
Feeling victimised, YES I b((@@)y well am.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Driver CPC is relatively easy to get. Although it wouldn't really be practical for a casual driver to get it. Does it also mean that they won't accept 'grandfather' rights on pre-97 licences for minibuses?
Operator CPC, if needed, would be a real pain. I am having to study for one in order to transport horses commercially on a part time basis. The exams are only 4 times per year and it is a significant commitment to complete.
I imagine this would be a nightmare for any single van operators.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DallyPaul, it sounds like a major pain in the butt for people like you. Sympathies.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It all seems so petty to me, an excuse to make it even more difficult for small chalet companies from doing their own transfers. 
I bet the Swiss taxi drivers can't stand "shared transfers" either!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Tell that to some of my mates who are seriously worried about their livelihood, don't know whether to even accept bookings or cancel those they have; and all the one van chalet companies who can't get a CPC and can't get availability to farm their transfers out even if they could afford to.
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As long as they are legal in France can't they just use the french side if they don't get accepted for the Geneva Provision of Services thing? Or am I missing something?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snow and Sunshine, the French side is tiny and would be log-jammed within 10 minutes due to it having one dual-direction access road to a dead end.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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That's called a 'cul de sac' in French, but I agree with the use of English in this instance.
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That's called a 'cul de sac'
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Actually it isn't - the French think that's a hilarious phrase.
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What does cul de sac mean, then?
Despite my expert knowledge of French - not - I just put the phrase through Google Translate
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| French: cul de sac .... English: cul de sac |
That was helpful!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My schoolboy French (GCE grade C, 1977) makes me translate it literally as "bottom of the bag". Although I think "cul" can be used more vulgarly than "bottom".
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Comedy Goldsmith, it means the @rse end of a bag. While this may at one time have had a meaning in French, it evidently no longer does so becase it makes them giggle.
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