 Poster: A snowHead
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Henry's Avalanche Talks, coming to Ellis Brigham stores shortly:
http://www.henrysavalanchetalk.com/UK%20Autumn%20Tour
Ride Hard Ride Safe The Essentials Talk
Wed 23rd October 2013 Duke Street, Castlefield, Manchester, M3 4NF - The Essentials 7.30pm
Wed 30th October 10-12 Southampton Street Covent Garden, London, WC2E 7HA - The Essentials 8pm
Wed 6th November 6 Cheapside Passage One New Change London, EC2V 6AF - The Essentials 7.30pm
Thur 7th November Westfield London Shopping Centre Ariel Way, London, W12 7GF - The Essentials 7.30pm
Tue 12th November 160 Whiteladies Road, Bristol, BS8 2XZ - The Essentials 7.30pm
'Ride Hard Ride Safe In-depth Talk'
Thur 24th October Ellis Brigham Mountain Sports Wellington Mill, Duke Street, Castlefield, Manchester, M3 4NF - Ride Hard Ride Safe - In-depth Module (You need to see the Essentials talk first) 7.30pm
Thur 31st October Ellis Brigham Mountain Sports Tower House, 10-12 Southampton Street Covent Garden, London, WC2E 7HA - Ride Hard Ride Safe - In-depth Module 8pm
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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"Ride Hard Ride Safe"
So it's only for boarders then... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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dsoutar, why do you say that? Pretty sure "ride" applys to skis and boards.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dsoutar wrote: |
"Ride Hard Ride Safe"
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Sounds like an advert for durex.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Quite tempted by this - anyone going to the one at St.Pauls?
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| Dot. wrote: |
| dsoutar, why do you say that? Pretty sure "ride" applys to skis and boards. |
Just being pedantic really. Leaving DB's somewhat racy comment aside  , I've only ever associated riding with boarding
I've been to a couple before and would recommend. Not sure about the £10 fee though - when I've been before IIRC it was free
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I think I might give this a go. St Paul's on 6 Nov most convenient for me.
Anyone else apart from Richard_Sideways? If we get 3 or more we can save £3.33 which would just about cover a cheeky pint before or after.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've already bought my ticket now DJL.
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Richard_Sideways, No problem.
Anyone else? Otherwise I'll just sign up for a £10 advance ticket.
Perhaps we could arrange an ad hoc Snowheads meet up for a beer afterwards.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds like a plan
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Anyone going to the October 30th Covent Garden Talk?
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Damn! Just went to book a ticket for Wednesday and it is full. I'm on the waitlist.
I suppose I could go to Westfield on Thursday but that means Central Line in the rush hour  Wednesday's event is only a 20 minute walk from the office and same to Liverpool Street to get home.
No one has a Wednesday ticket they now can't use have they?
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh well I bit the bullet and booked for Westfield on Thursday. Anyone else going that day?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Looks like i'm the only SH going tonight then - will report back tomorrow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I return grizzled and heavily bearded from the back-country around St.Pauls.
Talk was good and Henry is clearly eloquent and passionate about his subject. This was a basic 1 hour lecture, covering the do's and don't's of off-piste skiing rather than the mechanics of avalanche such as triggers, which he saves for his advanced course. All useful information on how to primarily assess risks before you set off as well as when you're in the area.
So, what did I take away...
A useful checklist of things to bare in mind when off piste - most of which you'd look at (as I did) and say yeah I know that, but actively DOING it is often different to knowing it.
What conditions are more prone to avalanche, such as slope pitch, and weather conditions.
Watching for Terrain traps - obvious ones like cliffs and trees, and less obvious like trenches.
Planning to minimise your exposure to potential dangers, what he refers to as Islands of Safety and escape routes.
A lot of what he says is common sense, but it's worth repeating now and again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for the report Richard_Sideways. As one of my friend's (whose spent his career in Health & Safety) says: "the trouble with common sense is that it's not that common!"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Richard_Sideways, thanks for that.
Like DJL I left it too late to get a ticket for this one. Hopefully Henry will do these again before too long - sounds useful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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More info is available on his website www.henrysavalanchetalk.com including videos of some of the presentations (the in-depth stuff is members only)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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alan empty, Still tickets for tonight showing on the website (Westfield, White City) http://hatwestfield-eorg.eventbrite.co.uk/
I'll be there (though I accept that in itself is not much of a draw!). Tickets are a download or print-it-yourself so still time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Enjoyed the evening yesterday. I'm a relatively infrequent and inexperienced off-piste skier (with none of the recommended equipment  ) and it certainly gave food for thought.
Henry is an engaging character. Passionate, enthusiastic, humorous, clearly knowledgable and far from a world-weary, done-it-all, seen-it-all type. If he didn't know something he was quite prepared to say so. That said he is not the best presenter I have ever listened to.
I got quite a lot from it. I already knew about some things he covered, picked up plenty of other tips and realised how much more there is to learn. The "human element" was interesting.
The product placement from Archteryx, Elllis Brigham, and Ortovox was noticeable but not over done and fair enough in the context of the support they have offered. SCGB and Val d'Isere who were also supporters got a few plugs as well.
The audience was around 50 I would estimate and the EB staff said it was pretty well a sell out as was the previous night. Reasonable mix of ages (mid twenties to sixties I would guess) 75% male and with a whiff of Early Grey about it (well I suppose Wimbledon is not far away and SCGB are supporting it!). One particular incident where a lady in a Burberry coat arrived 45 minutes late, spotted someone she knew in the front row, walked across in front of the projector and proceeded to wave hellos to her mates was particularly crass and smacked of entitlement.
Well worth it at £10 and nice to bump into Boofit, - have a good season on your board!
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I caught one of his 'mini-lectures' at the London ski show, which was very interesting. If he ever does any talks in the Geneva area I'd certainly like to attend.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DJL, I was at the 'talk' the previous evening at St. Pauls EB. I whole heartedly agree with your 'Talk content summation'.
Almost exclusively a piste skier, now with my slightly wider 80mm underfoot width skis, i've been tempted to leave the 'piste', indeed with the abundance of 'all mountain' courses on offer i feel somewhat a lesser skier and a wimp for not 'going for it!'
Now i can and will 'just do it' as the Nike advert instructs, but i do feel slight nervy about the 'gun ho' lot next to AND above me who perhaps due to the advent of FAT skis are now tempted and able to ski in places, at an earlier stage in their 'skier development/ mountain knowledge' than had hitherto been possible. However, Henry's point, that 9/10 avalanches are Slab and nearly always caused by the skier caught in them, does mean that many of them (not all) can be prevented with knowledge /experience.
Anyone at the St.Pauls evening will remember me mentioning seeing the a video that Henry had just played, on Youtube concerning a Swedish extreme skier and a massive slab avalanche. What i didn't say was, the the exact same run had been done by him just few minutes before and afterwards in a discussion about it he said, with all my experience of off-piste skiing, with avalanche level at 2, with asking the piste patrol just minutes before, was the slope safe and the answer being 'that slope has never avalanched in memory' and yet it still went just proves that you can't be 100% safe. If anyone remembers the video, although Henry quipped ' there was probably some clues', i actually believe what caused it was the skiers fall ( and the energy dissipated into the snow-pack AT that particular point - obviously a weak point) just before starting off again, then it went - BIG!
Surprised no discussion about the AvaLung. Lots wanted to talk about airbags including Henry but nothing, not even a tiny mention at all about the AvaLung, which i find odd.
Is it right that the AvaLung could increase your buried survival time from 15 minutes to 1 hour?
Henry has inspired me and entertained me for a very reasonable £10. And, the free bottle of Becks from EB was very appreciated too.
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Richard_Sideways, I'd lost this thread before i went, otherwise i would've got in touch beforehand and made arrangements for a quick chat afterwards.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dot.,
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dsoutar, why do you say that? Pretty sure "ride" applys to skis and boards.
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Personally I have never heard anyone use the verb 'ride' in connection with skis. Apart from the fact it just seems wrong in relation to skis it also sounds a bit daft in relation to a snowboard too, when you think about it more. I know that one does 'ride' a snowboard but in almost every other activity riding tends to imply sitting down (maybe it is appropriate to snowboards after all!). In surfing you ride the wave in the same sense that you would ride a horse, but can you 'ride' an inanimate object? I'm not sure. [bicycles, trains, cars etc. are animate in a sense]
I don't think you can ride a mountain, but you could certainly 'ride' an avalanche. Linguistically if not healthily.
Anyway, I for one read the OP and instantly assumed it was boarders only.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tim Heeney, Both airbags and avalung came up at Westfield and there was a bit of discussion of some issues on each. I thought at first it was a sales pitch for Ortovox but as the point was developed it was clearly not,
So transceiver, probe, shovel, airbag - best part of a grand. Then I've got to persuade the rest of the guys to do the same. No point being buried if there is no-one around to find me dig me out! Might need a bit of a think.
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DJL,
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So transceiver, probe, shovel, airbag
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So no AvaLung for you. But why? Understand it's a bit of a nuisance having the tube very close to your mouth just in case etc. but IF buried, which is still possible even with an airbag, the AvaLung could easily extend your life beyond the normal 15 minutes. It's not expensive and it doesn't have the logistical problem of airbags such as the cylinder and size etc. so i'm struggling to appreciate the downsides to an AvaLung.
100% agreed - shared their responsibilities for off-piste skiing mates. Equipment AND training.
My Problem is, i usually ski fast on piste alone because i don't like waiting around. Off piste is going to take a different mentality and obviously more mates AND i'm going to HAVE to wait around!
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I thought at first it was a sales pitch |
and i agree that...
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as the point was developed it was clearly not |
well, i agree with you but a pity i didn't have his opinion on the AvaLung. Lots of 'people' wanted to talk/discuss about Airbags and Henry then started discussing his 4 modules available on his website. I went home and got out my copy of
'The Avalanche Handbook'- a poor second to Henry's engaging chat though must be said.
Please let me know what you and others thought: Pros/ Cons etc. about the AvaLung.
Thanks.
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You know it makes sense.
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Tim Heeney, with regards to Avalung, I don't percieve and downsides per se, I don't doubt that the technology works and could provide an extended survival period for someone who was buried. (can you feel the 'But' coming?)
But if you get involved with an avalanche, would you be able to use it?
As was made clear in the talk, one of the characteristics of being buried in an avalanche is that movement becomes very difficult or impossible, so you can't rely on being able to get the device into your mouth after you're buried. You'd have to realise you're in an emergency scenario, get the avalung mouthpiece into your mouth, and keep it there for the duration of the slide when you're basically getting pummelled and rolled from all angles. Are there ways around this? Yes some kind of permenant attachment like a facemask would work, but thats very obtrusive, and potentially restrictive when you're breathing hard skiing or moving around on the mountain, restricting your airway to a relatively small diameter pipe.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Richard_Sideways, Yes i can understand the emergency scenario - all to clearly. If there was empirical evidence of successful usage vs total usage of all AvaLung users caught up in and buried by avalanches, that would be very useful knowledge.
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one of the characteristics of being buried in an avalanche is that movement becomes very difficult or impossible, so you can't rely on being able to get the device into your mouth after you're buried
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and i doubt in that scenario of total immobilization, that it would be possible to make any pocket around your mouth or clear your mouth to breath at all - game probably over in 15+ minutes.
I just wonder what is the empirical evidence of airbags; the theory i understand, that's makes them so utterly dependable in saving ones life, that they seem to have relegated the AvaLung, despite its low cost / size and massive potential to extend the buried alive times by a x4 factor, now apparently consigning it to history.
I have seen the advertising, and sure enough there the survivors are, head and shoulders above the snow, thankfully appreciative of their airbag technology. I would really some independent facts and figures. It seems to me that with the ski industry pushing Fat skis enticing less experienced skiers into previously uncharted areas, with 'common acceptance' of airbag backup safety, evidence of life saving capability isn't far away.
I also suppose, if you've hit from above by somebody else triggering an avalanche on you, it's an 'ACT OF GOD' insurance wise. 
Richard - thanks for your comments and making me think.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The human element of avalanche safety is huge, IMHO. I belong to a Ski Club in Germany where many of the skiers and snowboarders do not carry the necessary avalanche equipment, nor do they seem to have any real skills in assessing terrain, and weather factors. On more than one occasion, I've peeled off from the group when I didn't feel comfortable, and I've been questioned about it afterward. It sucks, as I'd like to have more people to ride with off piste, but everyone has to watch out for themselves. If someone in the group doesn't have an avalanche probe and shovel, how are they going to dig me out if I get buried. There needs to be more of a group mentality. We are all in it together, if we're riding together.
The talk last night (which I attended) didn't go into great depth, but it was a good refresher of the fundamentals. It was amazing to bump into another Snowhead; particularly since I live in Germany. Small world. Have a great season in PdS, DJL.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tim Heeney, My list of kit wasn't meant to be exhaustive. My point was I really need to give some thought to my off piste excursions and should equip myself. I'll do further research and then decide what to buy. Avaiung will be on the list for consideration.
Luckily it's my 25th Wedding anniversary next week and whilst Mrs DJL is getting something conventionally appropriate I might get a bid in for some shiny new kit!
I can't think of a downside to the Avalung (extra weight?, false sense of security?) and it is one thing that might help you extend the period you stay viable and along with transceiver is something which may help you personally get dug out alive (probe and shovel help others). As I say more thought and research needed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FWIW, my local ski shop in Germany (which specializes in Freeriding clinics and trips) doesn't recommend the Avalung. As someone above already mentioned, the odds of getting it into your mouth while you're fighting the force of an avalanche are not good.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In some respects it would be good if airbag cylinders could be filled with compressed oxygen, rather than air or nitrogen - perhaps an ingenious way could be found to deliver the oxygen from deployed airbags or undeployed cylinders to a victim when it's really needed
OK, might cause problems with flights - but let's not get bogged down in details
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Richard_Sideways, Thank you for posting this. Very interesting.
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| mr brain cheat wrote: |
In some respects it would be good if airbag cylinders could be filled with compressed oxygen, rather than air or nitrogen - perhaps an ingenious way could be found to deliver the oxygen from deployed airbags or undeployed cylinders to a victim when it's really needed
OK, might cause problems with flights - but let's not get bogged down in details |
Not sure this would help much as I understand it it's the CO2 build up which kills before lack of O2.
It's interesting to see the black diamond prototype air bag doesn't have a avalung but suggests as the bags deflate it leaves a big air pocket.
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boofit, Interesting on the group thing - I've even come across some seasoned instructors in Europe that don't own or carry avy kit on the basis that they've skied the area for donkey's years and know the terrain and risk areas. Never thought that was a great example, didn't know it might be cultural.
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FAQ
