 Poster: A snowHead
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So here's the situation.
Booked a catered chalet hotel for 6 of us in Les Menuires, 10m from slope, end of Jan. Final balance paid yesterday morning. In the afternoon I received an email from the operator (via the agent) saying that the accommodation is no longer available. They offered an alternative in Les Deux Alpes but 10 minutes walk from the ski lift....not quite the same as 10m ski in/out.
T&C's say:-
"We will offer you at least one alternative holiday of equivalent or higher standard for which you will not be asked to pay any more than the price of the original holiday"
I immediately rejected the first offer as I don't believe it's equivalent. Same price yes but not the same in many other ways.
So my question is anyone had the same situation? What is considered equivalent?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Which 2Alpes acommodation?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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http://www.skifrance.co.uk/les-deux-alpes/club-hotel-les-airelles
"The Club Hotel Les Airelles is located approximately 10 minutes walk down the 'Diable' ski lift taking you straight up to the key links for making your way onto the glacier."
I rejected it for two main reasons 1. It's not in the 3 Valleys. 2. It's not ski in/out
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I would not consider that to be an equivalent, for skiing reasons, unless you are up for gnarly descents over the back of Les 2 Alpes into the wondrous La Grave ski area. Otherwise, Les 2 Alpes is a bit of a moonscape compared to the great ski landscapes of the Trois Vallees.
The only other comparable French ski areas I would accept would be Espace Killy (Val, Tignes) or Les Arcs/La Plagne.
[end of consumer advice line]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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edde, I had a similar situation last season but mine was with 3 weeks notice. They phoned me up (maybe because I booked directly with the supplier - Esprit), and offered me one resort (they were closing early in that resort). I explained to them what was particuarly important to me (our girls having their own room but still linked to our room iit was an apartment we originally had though I was happy for interconnecting rooms), and shorter transfer times. They came back with a list of various options which had availability and met that, I told them I would need ot consult my husband and we went and chose.
I also insisted that we got like for like in terms of lift passes which we had booked with them. As the resort we had chosen meant the girls lift passes were free, but my eldests wasn't for the new resort and the lift passes were more expensive to start with. We got all the lift passes without having to pay any extra.
My suggestion, do some research, and find offerings on line with them which you would be happy to substitute. - Go directly to them, express lots of disappointment, explain what features are most important to you, see if they offer something else, if that is one you have alread picked, great if you aren't happy with the something else, ask what about this one? It would also be worth asking for extras to be included - not least to allow them to barter with no but for 50% of price or to give leverage for geetting somewhere you want, ie ask for more than you really want so that you can give something up in order to get what you really want.
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edde, they should also offer you a full refund as far as I know. My experience with Ski France hasn't been the best... (Work related, never actually stayed with them though, so can't comment on that!)
I would look through the brochure and choose something that I believe is equivalent to the previous one and ask for that. See what they say!
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edde, just went through exactly the same. If they don't come up with anything you fancy, you are usually entitled to a refund, so you don't have to say yes to any options.
I would explain to them what is important to you, and see what they can come up with. In our case we ended up finding accommodation which was better quality, closer to the snow, and normally more expensive, but they had availability and at this notice you will find they are keen to fill beds and retain customers, even if that means a bit less profit margin.
The default option is to offer people something vaguely similar and many customers will just go along with it, either because they don't know what they are being offered or because they don't know how to negotiate.
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edde, given you are going in low season accepting a full refund is not a big problem; you'll have plenty of choice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tell them you're wedded to ski in/out in the 3Vs - they aren't much of a TO if they've not got any of that especially low season.
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Even though I haven't been to either ski resort I know from my research that if I had my heart set on skiing the Three Valleys LDA wouldn't be a suitable alternative. It looks like they have some accommodation in Meribel, La Tania and Courcheval so I'd be trying to get them to put you up there. Good luck.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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More like five minutes from the Airelles to the Diable, I'd say. Max.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well the story so far is I've opened it up to any of the large ski resports in France, just as long as it is ski in/out. The argument about what is 'equivalent' accommodation continues, they insist as long as it the same 'star rating' then its equivalent, I say it's not just about the star rating. That's the main sticking point really.
I've found ones that I think are equivalent but they don't agree. My criteria being simple really, ski in/out in a big resort.
I'm considering the full refund option and rebooking but prices now are higher than when we booked back in August. So i'm almost stuck between the option of accepting their poor offer or getting a refund and getting somewhere else for the same money that isn't as good.
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| edde wrote: |
| So my question is anyone had the same situation? What is considered equivalent? |
Um, no, I don't use package operators. I guess you can check uk consumer law.
Personally I'd expect "equivalent" to mean something for the same number of people, same country, for which they charged the same or more in their brochure at the time you entered the contract.
I don't think it could legally mean "at the same resort" or in the same type of building or anything like that; then it'd hardly be a change at all, if you see what I mean.
It should be cheaper now, so I'd just find another operator offering what you want and then get a refund & book the new thing. You could tell the initial supplier you're going to do that, and then they may give you some enticement to stay with them. Legally I would guess that your choices are to negotiate or to get a full refund, nothing more.
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You know it makes sense.
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Are they saying they've got no ski-in/out chalets available in all of France? Seems implausible. Likely they are trying to fob you off with stuff that is historically a low advance seller, because of less desirable location, which they end up discounting from theoretical equivalent price. Show willing - say you're willing to accept 1/2 a star downgrade with appropriate cashback but you don't expect them to be taking the wee wee with what they are offering - IMV up to £100 a head more of current prices (ignore what you paid as that's irrelevant with dynamic pricing) is still "equivalent".
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ski France are only offering the 2Alpes place, that's it. Not at all equivalent on so many levels.
I'm not accepting that. I'm being flexible on a number of points but they don't seem to be budging so next stop is ABTA.
I almost feel sorry for the agent.....hence not naming them just yet.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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edde, I can, indeed, picture that... interesting shade of puce? Douse with ice, as required or just for the hell of it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TOs shoot themselves (and in the process everyone else) in the foot by doing this. They want early bookings, but where's the incentive to do it when you risk being bumped out of the holiday you specifically chose and booked well in advance? 
I'd punish them by demanding a full refund, slating them to everyone you know and not using them again. If you want cheap and 3Vs I'd have a look at snowretreat in La Tania. I applied for a job with them this summer, thought they looked like a decent setup and the owners came across as nice people.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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They can offer you an equivalent (which logic would state means equivalent in terms of price given that the price is decided by a variety of factors such as quality of accommodation, resort, proximity to the slopes etc) or your money back. If they offer you more expensive options then that is at their discretion. I think Les Airelles is about the same price. I understand that Ski France didn't lose the contract on the property 9they had it on a lease) but the property owners rescinded the contract illegally and didn't even tell Ski France, instead agreeing a lease with a Belgian company. Now it's likely to be a legal wrangle which doesn't obviously help you out. It does sound like an unscrupulous hotel owner here.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
TOs shoot themselves (and in the process everyone else) in the foot by doing this. They want early bookings, but where's the incentive to do it when you risk being bumped out of the holiday you specifically chose and booked well in advance?
I'd punish them by demanding a full refund, slating them to everyone you know and not using them again. If you want cheap and 3Vs I'd have a look at snowretreat in La Tania. I applied for a job with them this summer, thought they looked like a decent setup and the owners came across as nice people. |
Well that's a very heavy handed attitude to take - bit edl-ish. Uninformed but inciting hatred..... Mmmmmm
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| Morrissey wrote: |
| I think Les Airelles is about the same price. |
I agree it is about the same price and in a ski resort in France. That's about where the similarity ends though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| edde wrote: |
| Morrissey wrote: |
| I think Les Airelles is about the same price. |
I agree it is about the same price and in a ski resort in France. That's about where the similarity ends though. |
Well the flights and transfers are the same, the service and catering is the same, the standard of accommodation is about the same. The difference is the resort. Both are altitude resorts with good snow records. Obviously the 3V is massive and I guess that is your decision to take. Do you accept the change or take a refund (which they will give)? Maybe call them back and request a different accommodation like one of their La Tania chalets, or Alpe d'Huez chalets or even their Meribel chalet.
Unlike advice offered by one on here - it's not a war it's a case of reaching a satisfactory conclusion for all parties. Hope you get the best out of a bad situation and best of luck chap.
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Morrissey, 'inciting hatred' indeed, do calm down. 
So Ski France have been let down by the hotelier. If they want to keep their customers, the way forward would be to explain, apologise and have some sort of conversation. Not just say 'it's the Airelles, take it or leave it'.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| More like five minutes from the Airelles to the Diable, I'd say. Max. |
As would I, having stayed there. Pleasant walk having a laugh with your mates. But no, it's not ski in ski out.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Are you talking to a person from the TO, via the agent or exchanging emails? If you aren't talking tithes directly, do so. If you are, as to speak to the manager. Don't just be fobbed of keep asking to speak to the next people up the chain until you get to somebody with the power to do something.
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You know it makes sense.
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Happened to us last year but before we paid the balance. Group of 12 of us booked a sole occupancy chalet ( for a 40th birthday celebration) in Val D'Isere. We booked & paid our deposit at the begining of July & then had an email in September saying it was no longer available & they were moving us to a 70 room hotel in Les Deux Alps. We said no it wasn't an equivelent holiday, Val D & the Espace Killy ski area cannot be compared with L2A,so they said they would throw in lift passes-this was after we asked how a sole occupancy chalet could be compared to a large hotel & they very kindly said they'd set aside an area in the dining room where we could all eat together!!!!!
We ended up having to take them to court & they paid up the day before it would have actually gone to court. We had to stick together & be prepared to see it though to a court hearing but they completely stopped communicating with us & we only found out the deposit had been refunded because the girl who originally paid it just happend to check her bank account & found it was up almost 2k to what she expected!
The company has been black listed by all our fellow skiers, I understand things sometime happen but you have to offer people a comparable holiday & yours sounds like ours in that the 3V's is far superior to L2A.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Morrissey, if we're talking Les Christelles, it's still apparently live and bookable on their website. It also seems to be nearly £1000 per person for the week. 
edde, for that sort of money you could have this isnstead: http://www.vip-chalets.com/chalets/vip-club-chateau
THe Airelles, on the other hand, is nearer £650. Knowing the Airelles intimately, I can say that it's probably just about worth that as long as the food's good.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We booked Christelles for £500pp for 25th Jan. So trying to get a refund and alternative for the same price is proving impossible, we booked back in Jan when things were a bit cheaper.
NickyJ - I'm just talking to the agent at the moment, but will go direct to the TO and/or speak to a manager somewhere. I still maintain that the L2A offer is not equivalent to 3Valleys let alone the features of the accommodation they have offered.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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edde, Ask for your money back........... you are going way outside the peak dates and can expect plenty of last minute deals for empty chalets.
Check out Alpine Answers website, their "Chalet Deals" for 25/26 Jan has plenty of choice for 3V's/EK/Arcs sub £650 including flights and transfers. These price will tumble nearer to the departure date.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skimastaaah wrote: |
edde, Ask for your money back........... you are going way outside the peak dates and can expect plenty of last minute deals for empty chalets.
Check out Alpine Answers website, their "Chalet Deals" for 25/26 Jan has plenty of choice for 3V's/EK/Arcs sub £650 including flights and transfers. These price will tumble nearer to the departure date. |
I'm happy doing last min deals when there is only a couple of us, done that plenty of times. For six though we decided to book early, get a good deal and then we can relax and look forward to it.
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FAQ
). Given his stubborn insistence for sitting on the piste getting covered in snow by "passing" skiers, I feel sure he could wear down a saint, never mind a difficult TO 
