 Poster: A snowHead
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Some info on the new smartphone beacon apps that have emerged recently. Don't get rid of your tried and tested 457mhz beacon just yet.
Press release from the CAA
Apps marketed as transceivers give users false sense of protection
Oct 24, 2013, Revelstoke, BC:
Smartphone avalanche search applications that are marketed as avalanche rescue systems are not recommended, says the Canadian Avalanche Centre (CAC). Three European-made apps are presenting themselves as economical alternatives to avalanche transceivers, the electronic device used by backcountry users to find buried companions in case of an avalanche.
After close examination, the CAC has found a number of issues with the technology. Two of the main issues are compatibility and frequency range. All avalanche transceivers conform to an international standard of 457 kHz. Regardless of the brand, all transceivers can be used to search and find other transceivers. “Not only are these new apps incapable of connecting with other avalanche transceivers, they are also incompatible between themselves, so one type of app can’t find another,” explains CAC Executive Director Gilles Valade.
The 457 kHz standard was chosen because it transmits very well through dense snow, is not deflected by objects such as trees and rocks, and is accurate. “None of the various communication methods used by these apps come close to that standard,” adds Valade. “WiFi and Bluetooth signals are significantly weakened when passing through snow, and easily deflected by the solid objects we expect to see in avalanche debris. And the accuracy of a GPS signal is nowhere near the precision required for finding an avalanche victim. ”
Other critical issues include battery life, robustness, reliability and interference. “These apps are being actively marketed as software that turns a smartphone into an avalanche transceiver but the CAC has serious concerns about their vulnerabilities,” says Valade. “We are warning all backcountry users to not use any of these apps in place of an avalanche transceiver.” "
The three apps are:
iSis Intelligent (Mountain) Rescue System http://www.isis-application.com/en/
Snøg Avalanche Buddy: http://www.avalanchebuddy.com/
SnoWhere: http://charcoalfrost.com/
The full 7 page review
www.avalanche.ca/cac/avalanche-search-apps-review
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In other news, bear shits in the woods and the pope is catholic 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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livetoski, peple actually believed that? Hilarious. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't see the issue. Isn't it just modern day natural selection?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| I don't see the issue. Isn't it just modern day natural selection? |
Not when some prick who thinks these are a good idea drops in above your party because he is clueless but "protected" and triggers something.
Straw man I know but indicative of a mindset.
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I wasn't being totally serious y'know.
And like you say, buying the kit doesn't buy you brains
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Mosha Marc, yeah I know but it was an easy peg to hang my righteous indignation act on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Not when some prick who thinks these are a good idea drops in above your party because he is clueless but "protected" and triggers something.
Straw man I know but indicative of a mindset |
Another interesting mindset is that anyone with the "right gear" wont set off the avalanche by dropping in above you, it does not matter what gadget is in their pocket if they do that surely you just don't want to put yourself in that position because you have 0 control over it regardless.
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geeo, that post didn't make any sense. What did you mean?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| geeo, that post didn't make any sense. What did you mean? |
I think he/she means if you are skiing under something which is hangfire it's your poor decision making in the first place. Which is true , but maybe it's also a situation where you have no choice but to cross a risk zone. Your party crosses it one at a time to islands of safety. The trigger comes from someone else higher in the same zone at the same time in defiance of protocol.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm really glad that the CAC brought attention to these smartphone apps. While I'm sure the developers behind them mean well, they have unfortunately rather missed the point. The apps themselves are, theoretically, a good idea. However, because they are completely incompatible with both each other and with existing transceivers, they are pretty useless.
The only potential benefit of one of these apps is that they could reduce the primary search time. In layman's terms: If the victim is buried beyond the range of your transceiver (pretty likely), then the GPS function could get you close enough quite quickly to then use your transceiver (assuming that the victim has one !) and carry out the pinpoint search. What I would really like to see is the GPS function from these apps incorporated into transceivers. There is no reason why they couldn't make the technology small enough.
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| Quote: |
Your party crosses it one at a time to islands of safety. The trigger comes from someone else higher in the same zone at the same time in defiance of protocol.
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yea so what difference would it make what they have?
what I mean is it's a mighty odd way to judge something based on some might happens, we could all make up a hundred scenarios involving people with the right equipment doing stupid things that put you in danger,there is the desire to link it to some form of personal safety it makes no difference if you are under them and they have a rope attached to a helicopter to get them out all you need to worry about is your own safety.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Avalanche Academy wrote: |
| The only potential benefit of one of these apps is that they could reduce the primary search time. In layman's terms: If the victim is buried beyond the range of your transceiver (pretty likely), then the GPS function could get you close enough quite quickly to then use your transceiver |
If the phone is on the surface, sure. Stick a body and a metre of snow on top of it, and you'll be lucky to get a phone signal and there's precious little chance of getting a GPS lock!
GPS just isn't ever going to help deal with avalanche burials.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Serriadh, The GPS might give you the location where he was before he got buried. That's not going to help find him, but hey, it's good to know where he was before he got buried. That's assuming that you can get a phone signal of course, which you won't, but ... aw forget it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If there wasn't someone near enough to see him get caught in the avalanche he is f*cked anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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geeo, I think you are making a big deal out of my somewhat flippant comment to provide a counter-example to the "the only people at risk is themselves so who cares".
I do judge people on their kit as I suspect most people do. Let's say I'm talking to someone in the bar who talks the talk and I agree to go off piste skiing with them the next day - if they show up with rental skis and no rucksack alarm bells start ringing. let's say they pass that hurdle but when we do a transceiver check they appear unfamiliar with the device and admit they only rented it that morning. Am I more or less confident that they've spent time considering, evaluating and learning about off-piste hazards? Or their ability to rescue me if required? It may not matter I might still ski with them but I know not to be too reliant on them and might choose the very safest lines so we both have a good experience.
If someone thinks a smartphone beacon is a good idea and.or in any way a substitute for proper transceivers I take it as a pretty big signal of their increased liklihood of being a liability to themselves and others, not necessarily through anything other than ignorance. Would you approach that person with a completely open mind?
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FAQ
