 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey guys. I've been reading through several of the posts here. Didn't find a thread appropriate, so thought I'd start a new one to ask. I'm from Alberta and I've been skiing occasionally. Lately due to the interest taken by one of my friends, I've been doing it a lot and he has been finding new challenges and routes to try. Now one of the guides suggested that when I get the time, I take an AST 1 course- http://www.mountainskillsacademy.com/avalanche-safety-training-ast1. What I'd like to get an opinion on is if it is really necessary for near-amateur skiers like me? Can't I just learn what is necessary from experience alone without having to take such a course?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No - take a good course, realise how little you know and still need to learn, read good avalanche safety literature, then take another course and then maybe venture out.
IMHO
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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depends how good your skiing is, if its not good enough to venture into the back country it would strike me as being more prudent to spend the money on ski lessons first....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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+ 1 and some, for what Touchguru, said
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Some people prefer to learn by experience. The thing is though: experience always turns up immediately after U need it for something.
So that's all fine if you know you're in a safe environment - not so good if you're relying on it to save your life.
Some things are definitely better learnt by instruction - after all, how many sky divers do U know who learnt by trial and error?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm not discounting the importance of training. After all we read so much about accidents and what not and I realize the need to be prepared. So the course really makes a lot of difference?
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This seems remarkably timely:
http://www.henrysavalanchetalk.com/top-7-reasons-not-coming-avalanche-talk
(obviously I'm not suggesting that you travel to the UK for this instruction, but the points it raises are all things you should be thinking about, particularly the one about being more of a help than a hindrance if you are unlucky enough to get caught out)
I haven't done this as I really don't go off piste. If I started to do so educating myself on the risks and getting the right gear would be pretty high on my to do list.
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tsoren, I did the AST1 last season, was well worth it and a very interesting day out. One of the first things you will appreciate afterwards is what sort of a fool you would be to rely on learning from experience alone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you're going into "the backcountry" then yes take an avalanche training course if you can, you'll learn how much you don't know and will come away with a whole bunch of new knowledge to apply. Preferably also find someone more experienced to take you under their wing as you begin to apply that knowledge. Depending on the conditions you don't need to be a great skier to enjoy skiing away from ski areas and you're also much less likely to be able to expose yourself to avalanche hazard due to generally not skiing in likely avi terrain.
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| meh wrote: |
Depending on the conditions you don't need to be a great skier to enjoy skiing away from ski areas and you're also much less likely to be able to expose yourself to avalanche hazard due to generally not skiing in likely avi terrain.
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While I agree with the first part of this statement, I don't agree that the second part is a safe conclusion.
It is very easy to expose yourself to avalanche danger without skiing difficult terrain and a few metres either way can make all the difference between being in or out of danger.
I see people all the time experiencing risk that they are unaware of, usually from above, because they have assumed that being near the piste/right under a lift/on a shallow slope made them safe.
There was a video, not long ago, of a huge avalanche on Mont Vallon, Meribel. A Russian guy, who was skiing a pretty easy and accessible part of the slope was killed in it and despite weeks of searching, his body was buried so deeply that he wasn't found until Spring.
Like many people, the more I've learnt in this field, the more I've realised how much I should have known sooner!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| tsoren wrote: |
| I'm not discounting the importance of training. After all we read so much about accidents and what not and I realize the need to be prepared. So the course really makes a lot of difference? |
How are you getting your experience? Going out for days in the backcountry with just your mate? Or with a guide? How well is the guide explaining what he is evaluating? Or are you talking about a paper guidebook?
I think clearly from what you've posted the answer is yes, take a course, unless of course you are only talking about skiing within controlled resort boundaries in North America where I'd say it's still useful but not essential.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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admin, yup, I'm making a generalisation based on the statistical likelihood of encountering an avalanche on a slope that most intermediate skiers would want to tackle. Which is why I said "much less likely" and "generally not" rather than talking in absolutes.
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But as I know you know, it depends on the stats you choose 
After all, statistically, you are more likely to die in an avalanche within sight of the piste/lifts.
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You know it makes sense.
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tsoren, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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admin, not really, if you stick to slopes below 30 degrees as most intermediates would you vastly decrease the likelihood of being caught in an avalanche much less triggering one yourself. You can't eliminate the risk, but it's a solid risk reduction technique and an intermediate skiing low angle terrain is much safer than a good skier on 40 degree slopes all day, all else being equal. This sort of thing is the basis of Munter's Reduction Method the most basic version of which involves avoiding slopes above a certain steepness depending on the avi forecast.
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Poster: A snowHead
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That's all very well but people skiing close to the piste are statistically less likely to know all that and hence most avalanche deaths occur within sight of the piste.
Anyway - we agree on principle and if we push this any further we'll disappear up our own butts
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, I booked myself a spot on HATs tour. Its about time I found out the size of the holes in my knowledge and probably fill them in. If anyones attending the one on the 6th near St.Pauls. Yeah its a tenner but IMHO its worth it and I can never make the free ones as they're always up a mountain in scotland and I don't have the necessary innoculations.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| admin wrote: |
That's all very well but people skiing close to the piste are statistically less likely to know all that and hence most avalanche deaths occur within sight of the piste.
Anyway - we agree on principle and if we push this any further we'll disappear up our own butts |
Yes, but he didn't say anything about proximity to a piste, probably as that has little/nothing to do with the difficulty/steepness/danger of the slope.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 23-10-13 12:39; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Find the HAT 7 reasons a bit patronising and self-serving. I'd love to attend the level 2 but they've got far less coverage on that date/venue wise and nicely timed to clash with ski show.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks a lot guys for all these responses. General opinion here is overwhelmingly in favor of taking the course, and after reading all the responses, i might add, rightly so. Thanks again guys. 
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