 Poster: A snowHead
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2 things -
(i) A helmet will obviously give your head more protection then a hat but won't be infallible. I don't wear one but I'm not against it either and I don't quite understand why people get so dogmatic on both sides of the issue.
(ii) Scott McCartney's helmet was probably of limited benefit because it was poorly fastened and came off. The helmet will only protect you whilst it is actually on your head.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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northernsoulboy, Yep there's no doubt about it, you do think differently when you get older and have more responsibilities. When I started skiing as a child (many moons ago) nobody wore helmets at all. You could get the odd child's hats but they were more like toys...utterly useless. There is no doubt that the life of a family friend would have been save about twenty or so years ago when, aged 19, he was standing on the side of the piste waiting for friends when some idiot smashed into him and he fell and hit his head on a rock and was killed, he wasn't even skiing along. That said, although my kids wore helmets, I only started wearing one about 3 years ago and initially hated it, but now I have got used to it, I put it on without even thinking (mind you its a fag when the phone rings). I use mine all season but I certainly won't be renewing it soon, unless something happens to it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| martinm wrote: |
| They will deteriorate - the UV destroys the plastic, so it's not marketing. |
On a long enough timescale, everything will deteriorate.
Skiing helmets do not deteriorate to any significant degree because of UV over any relevant timescale.
You will want to change your helmet for cosmetic or damage related reasons before any UV-associated issues.
It is marketing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Swissie wrote: |
| northernsoulboy, Yep there's no doubt about it, you do think differently when you get older and have more responsibilities. |
Age changes everything. My wife doesn't inspect my helmet with the same fervour she once did, for instance.
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| I don't wear one but I'm not against it either and I don't quite understand why people get so dogmatic on both sides of the issue. |
Spot on. I suppose it's something to do with coffee, and the internet.
The government/EU will eventually make it compulsory, which will be a sad day.
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| Quote: |
(ii) Scott McCartney's helmet was probably of limited benefit because it was poorly fastened and came off. The helmet will only protect you whilst it is actually on your head.
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It actually absorbed the impact and then shattered In other words exactly what it was meant to do, once it was off it was no use but it his velocity had decreased by then.
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I don't quite understand why people get so dogmatic on both sides of the issue.
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This I dont really care if you wear one or not, your noggin your issue. The problem I have is people saying they have no benefit wich is a big pile of steaming horse poo. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree, any head covering will provide a certain degree of protection compared to nothing.
I don't know whether McCartney's helmet shattered or if it was meant to. It appeared on the recording that the chinstrap came undone and the whole thing came off in 1 piece after the initial impact. It would have taken the brunt of that impact but was then no further use when his head subsequently hopped off the ice several times during the following seconds. I don't think I recall seeing Rossi or Sheene's helmets coming off.
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
I agree, any head covering will provide a certain degree of protection compared to nothing.
I don't know whether McCartney's helmet shattered or if it was meant to. It appeared on the recording that the chinstrap came undone and the whole thing came off in 1 piece after the initial impact. It would have taken the brunt of that impact but was then no further use when his head subsequently hopped off the ice several times during the following seconds. I don't think I recall seeing Rossi or Sheene's helmets coming off. |
but his did :- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motogp/15420069
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| martinm wrote: |
| They will deteriorate - the UV destroys the plastic, so it's not marketing. However, as pointed out, most helmets will be used for a week or 2 a year. |
Although this is true, there's also EU wide law (or however that should be called) which allows only helmets with certain certification to be sold (at least that was for cycling helmets when I was checking this "replace every 3 years" thing few years ago). And if you want for your helmet to get through certification it has to be made from materials which doesn't deteriorate due UV, body heat, sweat etc. So if this is true, and helmets are done from such materials, there's no reason for "change it every 3 years". And realistically, I really don't think there's need to change bike or ski helmet every 3 years. But then again, my head, and that inside of it, is worth a bit more then 30-50eur/year, so I normally change both, bike and ski helmets every 3-4 years. It's not really all that much of money to test myself if this "change it every 3 years" is really true or just marketing hype (which I think it really is).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This bloke's story proves helmets don't always help, but then even I don't ski that fast.
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I never wore a helmet until a couple of years ago; I've had some fairly "interesting" crashes on snow over the past 2 or 3 years and have been REALLY thankful to have had helmets on during these incidents. On more than one occasion I expect I would have ended up unconscious at best or with a skull fracture or worse had I not worn a helmet.
It's a sample of one but it's good enough for me to believe in helmet effectiveness and keep wearing one whenever I'm out on snow. I'll also insist my little ones do (for as long as I can "insist" anything).
What others do is completely up to them, though.
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You know it makes sense.
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boardiac, I've had similar experiences but it's anecdotal and doesn't constitute hard evidence.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| fatbob wrote: |
| boardiac, I've had similar experiences but it's anecdotal and doesn't constitute hard evidence. |
The 'evidence' side of the argument involves lab testing of the equipment, numbers of falls/injuries/deaths correlated with helmet use, and variables such as speed, time, alcohol etc.
So Boardiac's story is anecdotal, but it's also (assuming s/he knows what s/he's talking about) evidential - the equipment was (I assume) tested prior to sale, s/he's had falls which would have caused injury but didn't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The government/EU will eventually make it compulsory, which will be a sad day.
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my money is on insurance companies making it compulsory...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They can't make it compuslory, unless insurance is compulsory.
Though that will be the next thing on the govt list, with a nice % tax deduction for keeping them in ministerial jags, sorry keeping us all nice and safe, of course.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| northernsoulboy wrote: |
| The government/EU will eventually make it compulsory, which will be a sad day. |
I just don't see that happening. Ever. I can think of lots of sports where head protection might be useful but it isn't mandatory - cycling, rock climbing, golf (lots of ball meets head incidents going on out there - tartan helmets all round), squash, kayak, rugby etc etc I could go on. Skiing is actually very safe compared to some of those and serious head injuries are rare. Wear one or don't, it's up to the individual, but it isn't a good idea to hit your head with or without a helmet and I'd have more respect for Smith if their message was as much about avoidance strategies as their cash-generative early replacement strategy. Sure, anyone can get unlucky, but there are ways of mitigating the risk.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I calculated several years ago using the figures that were available that I was approximately ten times more likely to suffer severe head injury from driving than skiing as I can easily ski without insurance but am not allowed todrive without insurance and the companies have not yet made it compulsory to use a helmet in my car I am not too concerned as to whether or not they will make me wear a helmet.
Most of my skiing wearing a helmet is frankly ridiculous overkill and I would more logically wear one walking on icy pavements when I slip far more frequently. I do wear them sometimes though from peer group pressure.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| northernsoulboy wrote: |
| The government/EU will eventually make it compulsory, which will be a sad day. |
I just don't see that happening. Ever. I can think of lots of sports where head protection might be useful but it isn't mandatory - cycling, rock climbing, golf (lots of ball meets head incidents going on out there - tartan helmets all round), squash, kayak, rugby etc etc I could go on. |
I hope you're right, but the direction of travel, Europe-wise, is nannying.
Interestingly, or not, I've played rugby without a scrum cap, I cycle without a helmet, I used to bat and field at short leg (cricket) without a helmet. No logic, really.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I do wear them sometimes though from peer group pressure.
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really?
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| Quote: |
I do wear them sometimes though from peer group pressure.
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really? |
Yep, family all keen on me wearing them .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| northernsoulboy wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
| boardiac, I've had similar experiences but it's anecdotal and doesn't constitute hard evidence. |
The 'evidence' side of the argument involves lab testing of the equipment, numbers of falls/injuries/deaths correlated with helmet use, and variables such as speed, time, alcohol etc.
So Boardiac's story is anecdotal, but it's also (assuming s/he knows what s/he's talking about) evidential - the equipment was (I assume) tested prior to sale, s/he's had falls which would have caused injury but didn't. |
The counter argument also played out ad naseum is that you don't have a control from a personal experience - one might feel that a helmet has provided a real benefit but you can't prove it. In my case I had complete 5+ minute memory loss from unaccompanied slam to "waking up" in a cafeteria having purchased or shoplifted a choccy chaud so I have a personal belief that things could have been much worse if I hadn't been wearing a helmet but I wouldn't expect anyone else to take it as evidence.
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fatbob, real world stats always skew, but would you accept finite element analysis modelling as evidence? Work being done on new helmet design from research at the Royal Institute of Technology and Karolinska Institute in Stockholm on the MIPS system which is being incorporated into several higher end helmet designs which incorporates a low friction layer between the shell and the liner and allows it to move in an impact.
http://mipshelmet.com/how-it-works/test_results
This research is comparing traditional helmets Vs the MIPS floating system, but if you can accept that placing a soft deforming layer and a hard outer shell can reduce some portion of an impacts energy then you can probably accept that a bare head would experience a greater shock loading that a helmeted head.
I'm firmly in the personal choice catagory, but I choose to wear, and have done for well over 10 years. In that time, i've needed it once. Once is enough.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| fatbob wrote: |
The counter argument also played out ad naseum is that you don't have a control from a personal experience - one might feel that a helmet has provided a real benefit but you can't prove it. In my case I had complete 5+ minute memory loss from unaccompanied slam to "waking up" in a cafeteria having purchased or shoplifted a choccy chaud so I have a personal belief that things could have been much worse if I hadn't been wearing a helmet but I wouldn't expect anyone else to take it as evidence. |
Yep, understood, correlation/causation etc, but the further corollary to that is that there is simply no point in collating personal experiences unless they are backed up by eyewitness confirmation (and preferably CCTV, blood tests, GPS records etc) and then fed into an academic sausage machine.
Personally, if a competent skier or boarder tells me he has had high speed crashes, smashed his head into the ice or rock, and got up and walked away, in circumstances where he thinks he would have been injured without a helmet, then I will be interested.
If hundreds or even thousands of such reports come in, as they have done over the last five to ten years, I will take that as evidence in the real world.
It wouldn't satisfy the requirements of a rigorous and peer-reviewed academic study, perhaps, but then there are quite a few of those out there already.
There are not so many accounts of people suffering black out by hot chocolate.
That doesn't mean I discount the possibility of such an event; merely that I would require further evidence before acting on it 
Edited to add: 'thinks he would'
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 2-10-13 13:37; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Filthyphil30k, Exactly, no worries then about the last head in it.
I actually don't think the styling is too bad either http://www.sportsdirect.com/no-fear-ski-helmet-mens-407035 I got ours a few years ago and they all look like that that mens one - I'm not in the the 'german army trench helmet look' with the brims - like the Bern ones have myself so the lack of a brim doesn't bother me. I think we all have adult ones, daughter and I have white ones and my son has a black one. I think they look the business and for the cash I think you can't go wrong. The adjusters on the back are excellent for sorting out a really good fit too.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
Filthyphil30k, Exactly, no worries then about the last head in it.
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Exactly don't want to swap cracked skull for nits.
I am assuming once I have a helmet on I will ski even faster...,
Now one last thing, should I buy Mrs FP one for Christmas?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Filthyphil30k, that depends on how much stick you are willing to take about being willing to risk her head, but not your own. I've been there with other safety equipment!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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as I said "sample of one" (i.e. anecdotal) - and I don't expect anyone else to see it as evidence, but it's good enough for me. As Richard Sideways has said, "once is enough"...
It's your head/brain/life, and your choice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Quote:
I am assuming once I have a helmet on I will ski even faster...,
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Layne, No, that's his choice 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Remove duplicate
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 2-10-13 15:14; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Filthyphil30k, If you were my hubby, Id want a Sweet one
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shimmy Alcott, if you were my wife i would give you one. 
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I will look at the sweet ones, thanks for heads up.
She will be expecting Tiffany stuff, or a Moncler jacket if it is ski related.
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What other body armour should I be thinking about so I can really go fast!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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extract from the description of the no-fear helmet on sports direct link....
"The mens ski helmet also features an adjustable knob to the back"
too many options for me to even start...... 
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FAQ
