![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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hi all
looking at a short break over the weekend before xmas, but the question is where to go? here are our facts;
arrive geneva
party of 5-4 good skiiers ,one a total non skiiier ( sorry for spelling purists ,but no skiier option looks right?)
skied mainly in france in past--- morzine,les arcs,deux alpes,la tania
chalet accom preferred,but not essential
thinking morzine at present-lots of skiing and accom,close to geneva,biggish town for non skiier, --unless anyone else can come up with a better idea?
thanks for reading
p.s. is it realistic to expect snow in morzine village at xmas- or too soon in the season/
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Richard_Sideways, The report shows snow on the slopes, not the village? I have booked for Xmas again this year but have again discounted Morzine because I wanted as much chance as possible of snow around the apartment. Having been to Morzine in various conditions I found the village, like many places really, rather depressing and mucky looking when there was little snow around. There was some very good value accommodation available in that area when I was looking and I was tempted because, as the op says, it is easy to get to from Geneva and a `proper` town with plenty to do for a non skier. Its also easy to get up to Avoriaz if you need to go high to find more snow.
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going downhill fast, book flights now. Book accommodation at (more or less) last minute based on snowfall and forecast. Accom shouldn't be a problem...
Most places will be aiming to open the weekend before Xmas week, but it's not guaranteed that it will happen.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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going downhill fast, agree with looking at the data re Richard Sideways' post, but I would argue that morzine is a bad bet in a 'thin' year, and who knows whether we will be up to our armpits in the village like this year and last, or dodging mud patches at 2000m like previous years. Better to get access to a big system and then you have better chances. Trouble is, best snow places do not have many non-skier activities. In Crans Montana we have good snow record in december, southern slopes so good warm walking for non-skiers, skating, swimming pools, funicular to Sierre and good trains and post bus to outdoor thermal baths (Leukerbad, Brig, Ovronnaz), walks to mountain huts for lunch (tieche and la cure) and snow shoe-ing plus fantastic rail trips to Chamonix and Leysin. Accommodation is now heavily discounted in Switzerland and I would not rule CH out just on the basis of the CHF.
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Heading East is a good idea for snow. We have been skiing around Christmas in Klosters for the last 4 years and always had decent snow. I looked at the snow history for each year by resort to see which ones had some snow even in bad years.
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Think about Innsbruck. It's a city so plenty for the non-skier to do, brilliant Christmas market, skiers get the pick of several resorts all on the same lift pass, including the Stubai Glacier if the snow comes late.
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It is a bit of a gamble. Last two years December has been bare-ish until iirc first and second weeks respectively when it completely dumped.
IIRC we had someone in our apartment at VT in the first week and they were scratching around on the artificially populated pistes. The next week the resort was completely covered.
I would go somewhere where there it is high enough for there to be some kind of snow regardless and with enough artificial snow creation to at least enjoy the week if there hasn't been any precipitation.
Again IIRC VT opens last week November - but when they say open, it often is only a handful of lifts until the snow has dumped.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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emwmarine, did you mean first and second weeks of December or of the season? In Chamonix it was two weeks and one week before Xmas week.
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Serre Chevalier for me (Monetier), arriving for the opening day, last December was awesome, great snow, no people....can't wait to get back!
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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under a new name wrote: |
emwmarine, did you mean first and second weeks of December or of the season? In Chamonix it was two weeks and one week before Xmas week. |
Of December. As you say the week before xmas and week before that.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ah, yes, indeed. We had guests in the first imstance and my word I was nervous.
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emwmarine: We skied Espace Killy on opening weekend of the season last December - ie first Sat of the month. Snow certainly wasn't in short supply and definitely not bare-ish - opening day was a powder day with deserted slopes and great snow at all levels. Back for more on opening weekend this year - fingers crossed for more of the same.
So, for guaranteed snow, I'd go for Tignesgoing downhill fast. The non-skier among your party can go walking round the lake; parascending; sightseeing up the glacier; snowshoeing; ice driving; diving under the frozen lake; meet your party up the mountain for some lunches; or go dog(sledd)ing .....
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You know it makes sense.
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Lots of good advice going on here... But the only thing I slightly disagree with is the whole 'go high' thing...
Don't get sucked into the trap of 'there is only snow at high altitude', many a person will be crammed on to the highest tip of the highest place they can find because they believe it'll be the only place with snow, leaving the medium altitude places with hardly any people... Just keep your options open, high resorts can suffer from winds, there is nothing guaranteed about first snow.
I'd just wait til closer to the time and go where there is snow. chances are it'll all arrive pretty close together, and normally the whole alps has copious amounts within a week of the first flake, it just depends where exactly you want to go.
But saying that, if the snow is amazing, like it was this first snow just gone - it can keep the prices high because everyone who wants the first carve of the season will be trying to get out to the mountains.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Insiders, Totally agree - do not get taken in by the "go high" fetish.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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Quote: |
I would go somewhere where there it is high enough for there to be some kind of snow regardless
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Not sure I would - likely to be a bit bleak for the nonskier.
Book flights, then wait to book accommodation - that's the best bet, as suggested above.
But which weekend do you mean? The 21 December is the beginning of the "proper" Christmas week and a lot of accommodation will be full, and not cheap.
As others have said, snow is a gamble - could be very snowy in Morzine, could be fairly grassy.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, but grassy is good as you don't need a lot of snow to cover it...
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, Great point. I would think that accomodation outside the Christmas week will be available somewhere good no matter what. Just got to watch the forecast and reports and start snow dancing
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Quote: |
grassy is good as you don't need a lot of snow to cover it...
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true. A few winters ago we drove into Les Saisies about 4 pm and it was truly grim; brownish smears like mucky underpants surrounded by acres of dead grass. One 20 cm overnight snowfall later and all the pistes were in terrific shape. Actually, just looked in my book, it was new year's eve 2006.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Early 2007 was not good and that snowfall was not followed by many more - masses of grass again by early/mid February (though they kept the pistes in good shape) but the latter part of the season was good. Christmas 2006 had been warm and sunny - no chance of blowing snow. You simply can't tell. It's weather, and mountains. This morning was warm and sunny; lots of kids on mountain bikes and walkers in vest tops, sweating. Then a sharp thunderstorm and the temperature dropped to 8 degrees.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You'll need to Register first of course.
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under a new name wrote: |
pam w, but grassy is good as you don't need a lot of snow to cover it... |
exactly... go too high and there'll be big rocks... it's much more scree-y the higher you go, so in turn you'll need more snow to cover the bad bits... mid altitude is mostly grassy, so less snow needed to cover it up and when the pistes get pisted every night those 3 feet of snow that fall each night or whatever pretty much squashes right down and becomes 5 - 6 inches... it's not just about what's on the piste it's also about whats under it!
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 25-08-13 9:46; edited 1 time in total
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we had a sudden snowfall in October a couple of years ago. Just a couple of inches. Next morning there were ski tracks down a red piste - you could see the tracks where there was scarcely any snow left. I wouldn't have wanted to do it with my nice new skis but it did look fun (and because it was October the road which goes much of the way up, closed all winter under loads of snow, would have been open).
It does irritate me that some people seem to believe that only Austria has pistes on pasture. I did a walk this morning which involved walking across a blue, red and black piste, all covered in flowery pastureland.
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pam w, well, we do know all sorts of things that folk believe, sadly.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Insiders wrote: |
Lots of good advice going on here... But the only thing I slightly disagree with is the whole 'go high' thing...
Don't get sucked into the trap of 'there is only snow at high altitude', many a person will be crammed on to the highest tip of the highest place they can find because they believe it'll be the only place with snow, leaving the medium altitude places with hardly any people... Just keep your options open, high resorts can suffer from winds, there is nothing guaranteed about first snow.
I'd just wait til closer to the time and go where there is snow. chances are it'll all arrive pretty close together, and normally the whole alps has copious amounts within a week of the first flake, it just depends where exactly you want to go.
But saying that, if the snow is amazing, like it was this first snow just gone - it can keep the prices high because everyone who wants the first carve of the season will be trying to get out to the mountains. |
I do agree with most of that. The reason why I still think go high in December is good advice, particularly if booking early, is that if it hasn't snowed it is still pretty much cold enough for the snow cannons to work regardless.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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not necessarily, 'Going high' has become a kind of marketing buzz thing... there are loads of different factors involved in snow, quantity and its quality... Altitude doesn't always supply these. no one place does... it's a mixed bag and like I say nothing is guaranteed when it comes to first snows
When a resort is snowsure 4.7 out of 5 at 1200ish meters and a different resort is 4.9 out of 5 at 2000ish meters it doesn't really make any difference, it's just a bunch of numbers... any resort can be anything at any time... it just depends on how sucked in you get by the altitude fetish marketing...
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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emwmarine wrote: |
if it hasn't snowed it is still pretty much cold enough for the snow cannons to work regardless. |
2 years ago when I was waiting for first snow I looked up Val t's web cams, (I was getting itchy feet and wanted to go skiing) I think it must've been the first weekish in December, it hadn't snowed but the cannons were on. But all they'd done is made 1 piste, and that was just so all those people who were there couldn't claim their insurance on the lifts being closed... as I say, nothing guaranteed about first snow... not even in Val T
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i was there opening up at the time and they had the major pistes served with canons working, about 8Kms worth. Not great but given all around was bare soil at least people were able to get some skiing in. It then dumped all over the alps and the rest of the season was great.
Altitude does make a difference, after all it's why the Alps and Dolomites - despite being as far south as the Med - have snow on them at all.
I preume it's why snowheads book VT for the EOSB.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You know it makes sense.
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emwmarine wrote: |
Altitude does make a difference, after all it's why the Alps and Dolomites - despite being as far south as the Med - have snow on them at all.
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It's more about where the weather comes from than anything.
The European alps gets its cold weather from fronts coming from the north east... Russia and Siberia. The cold air hits the warm moist stuff coming from the med, and bam... snow.
The uk shares the same latitude with Canada, yet enjoys warm, moist air coming from the oceans south west (mostly) occasionally the systems change and you get a cold snowy winter, nothing to do with altitude.
So, there is more at play than simply altitude. To sell a holiday based on the fact that it is all about altitude isn't right - and why I say, there's nothing guaranteed...
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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emwmarine, mmh while yes altitude can make a difference, I don't think it's worth getting as hung up on it as the general media would suggest.
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