 Poster: A snowHead
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PRE-RELEASE SHOCK: See Bode Swiller's posting below
Every year, Crystal's 'ski industry report' - the 2013 report is due at 12.30pm today - provides the key business indicators for the season just gone, with pointers to the prospects ahead.
Planetski trailed the 2013 report a couple of days ago ...
http://www.planetski.eu/news/5134
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[The ski market] has shrunk by well over 30% since the economic crash of 2008 and we predict that fall will have stopped.
In 2011/12 it fell by 1.8% on the previous winter. This year we reckon there will be a small rise. |
For journalists attending today's event ...
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| The press launch is followed by a lunch. The refreshments on offer for us members of the 4th Estate at the event are usually rather tasty. |
... we recommend finishing lunch with a clear head ...
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| ... as always the report will need to be taken with a pinch or two of slat when it is releaed on Monday. It comes from a tour opeator rather than an independent organisation and so it has a vested interets in certain conlusions being drawn. |
[I once met a blind Venetian who took everything with a pinch of slat.]
Would any snowHeads care to consult their Crystal ball(s) in the run-up to today's release of data? Have France, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Andorra etc. been up or down?
I guess this webpage will serve a hot dish at 12.30pm ...
http://www.crystalholidays.co.uk/press-centre/
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 16-07-13 7:56; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, thanks, decided not to wade through all 44 pages. Did get as far as realising that the Austrian an Swiss markets combined nearly equal the French one. Sort of intrigues me since in the past I used to think of Austria and Switzerland together - as in "Shall I go to France or Austria/Switzerland?".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you for your press breakfast, Swiller - delicious. I particularly enjoyed the eggs benedict and freshly-squeezed mango juice.
Looking at Crystal's data, the market's clearly stabilised in overall terms. 1% growth in the industry in the past year to 899,700 ski holidays taken in 2012-13. Very little change in the France/Austria rivalry so far, but the effects of the ski hosting backlash (if it's to occur) will be in the coming winter. Switzerland's done relatively well.
I guess it suits Crystal's interests greatly to be able to report in their own document a growth in numbers from 169,000 to 177,000. Neilson, conversely, is reported to have lost big numbers: 73,000 down to 61,500.
Page 16 - "Ski community - growth in social engagement" - is worth noting. Crystal's use of Facebook was quite prominent last winter.
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Page 14 seems to suggest they are continuing their repping unabated.
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Repping not guiding.
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| admin wrote: |
| Page 14 seems to suggest they are continuing their repping unabated. |
Well, no, the wording isn't explicit but the numbers may tell everything. I've seen a reference to Crystal having had 148 resorts in 2011-12, but the text on that page says "Social skiing service in over 90 resorts", so I guess that may exclude France entirely again (unless they always have many resorts where no hosting is provided).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting read as usual no great surprises, think they should really look into the market in terms of new and returning visitors to the winter sports environment for companies like Crystal then this is more relevant than some general market numbers which must have a high % of error on the numbers going to the slopes
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surprise surprise Crystal is doing brilliantly compared to everyone else - everyone is stoked on their reps twittering etc etc. 270,000 skiers DIYing it apparently - as usual no mention of how it accounts for multiple trips etc. Social media is acknowledged as being important but only in the context of "corporate" offerings, surely the last thing anyone trusts is a resort's own social-media babblings "best snow on the upper slopes" and all?
"Reps show customers best restaurants, how to avoid queues, where the best snow is" .Crystal reps are clearly more talented than the average rep or perhaps they have assumed SKGB godlike properties.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'd back Iskar on this one. Went with Crystal last year and they were excellent. The information provided via social media was excellent, the rep was great and they paid for breakfast at the airport because we had to wait for other flights coming in.
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| dobby wrote: |
| and they paid for breakfast at the airport because we had to wait for other flights coming in. |
Now that's clever... how to turn a negative customer experience into enthusiastic positive PR for 5€ per head.
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You know it makes sense.
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admin, it worked, though. Best bit was people watching at the airport - "guess the nationality" was easier than I'd have thought.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well it's now 1.10pm ... so Britain's esteemed ski scribblers must now be lunching and quaffing fine drinks from Crystal (sic) glassware. James Cove has, however, already filed his story (with more promised later) ...
"UK Ski Market Grows"
http://www.planetski.eu/news/5136
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Poster: A snowHead
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From Planet Ski:
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Last winter the overall number of skiers increased by 5,000 from the season of 2011/12, according to the report.
899,700 people from the UK went skiing or snowboarding - a rise of 1%.
It was the first increase in numbers since the peak in 2007/8 when 1.22m people from the UK took a winter holiday to the mountains. |
Funny how people-who-should-know-better confuse people with trips. That 1% rise could easily be less people but taking more trips. The missing stat in all this (because nobody measures it or can work out how to measure it) is how many trips per person per season? We all know people who go 6-7-8 times per year or others in the Admin class who do more than God (I know, I know, to some of you he is your spiritual God). So the average could easily be up towards 1.5 + trips per person which would represent more like 600k skiers and boarders.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Would be interesting to see an age breakdown of the market
I might have to revise my ideas about DIY holidays - who would want to miss out on being twittered at by Crystal reps?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I hesitate to put a downer on this sunny-side-up report but given that last season's conditions in Europe were universally considered "Totally Bloody Amazing", calling a 1% increase in numbers "growth" is like calling an alcoholic "recovering" because someone nicked his pint.
Such epic conditions as we saw should have boosted numbers by at least 5% IMO.
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| admin wrote: |
| sunny-side-up |
Eggs-actly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well....I guess I'm not counted being near but not quite in the Admin league, for number of trips but for health and death in family reasons I actually skied less last season than any of the previous 8 years, so deffo not a sunny side up season for me and all the Boredsurfins. 
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Good point/pint, admin. It's true that my second (late season) trip resulted from reports of exceptional snow cover ... and Inghams (who had discounted very heavily despite that) only got my money because of the amazing conditions. It's also pertinent to point out that they are dropping the chalet concerned (Mazot) in Zermatt this year, after a very long time with it.
Numbers on the new Eurostar service to Switzerland (Visp etc) were also very low (6-13 April) ... which was worrying. The fares on that service were also heavily cut for that week (about £120 return, from memory).
It's clear that business continues to be very tight.
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Bode Swiller, I didn't say I got in more ski-days than god I said I got in more ski-days than Mark Zuckerburg and hence it's the metric I use to prove that snowHeads is more successful than Facebook despite their getting 24hrs head start on us.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Would be interesting to see an age breakdown of the market |
I posted this on the Ski Cklub Chat Forum thread:
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18-24 25%
25-34 34%
35-49 25%
50-64 8%
65+ 4% |
It doesn't quite reveal the demographic time bomb that's out there. Tons of skiers who grew up with the enormous schools market of the 70s and 80s are beginning to retire from the sport (I know, I know, you know someone of 106 who is hucking off cliffs) but, generally, a huge number are in the giving up zone for one reason or another, be it economic, injury-related etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
a huge number are in the giving up zone for one reason or another
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In my parents case - cost of insurance more than cost of holiday
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o dear I am a minority group!
The early Easter I think may have restricted the growth last season after Easter numbers where very low and the snow was still pretty good. Late Easter helps extend the season?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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livetoski, on that basis 98% of snowHeads are as well 
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Late Easter helps extend the season?
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If the resorts stay open! Apparently there is some discussion in France about closure dates....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Touching faith in a Snowsports England campaign which will be lucky if it isn't totally anonymous.
I do wonder what impact good snow conditions actually have on TO bookings - I can see they impact pre Xmas and late season bookings when people won't bother for a WROD or dirt and slush and I guess they might accelerate bookings that would happen anyway as some of the "risk" is taken out of the game early. You have to be very brave to hold off booking to within the 3 day powder forecast window, and arguably most TO punters aren't that interested in fresh anyway.
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You know it makes sense.
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Eeek, I will be in the 8% group by the time I next ski 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is this an age breakdown of Crystal's customers or overall? (Sorry no time to read the report). Perhaps older skiers are more likely to head off without the help of a large tour operator?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
It doesn't quite reveal the demographic time bomb that's out there. Tons of skiers who grew up with the enormous schools market of the 70s and 80s are beginning to retire from the sport (I know, I know, you know someone of 106 who is hucking off cliffs) but, generally, a huge number are in the giving up zone for one reason or another, be it economic, injury-related etc.
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Good point. I suspect that could indeed make a difference. In the places where I ski there are plenty of young families with young kids (and often grandparents too) but they're not Brits (they are French, Dutch, Belgian and Italian) and I have little experience of the big name resorts in recent years (and none, ever, in school holiday times). Do we have figures on what proportion of the overall visitors to the different countries are Brits?
I'd say that quite a significant minority of visitors in Les Saisies don't ski. Or don't do downhill skiing, at any rate. Many are older, and tend to do walking, snowshoeing, pottering round and, in the case of the grandparents, child care. The resort is building a fancy new sports centre with several pools, courts, etc. I suppose they are gearing up for more demanding clientele and emphasizing that it's not just about the skiing. Maybe we ageing British skiers will continue to visit the mountains in winter too? We will want good quality accommodation and a range of facilities but with no premium on "ski in/out".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am also in the minority 8% group and someone else not far from me is already in the 4% - but its a bit frightening that two of the grown up offspring are now in the 'older' 25% and the other one not far behind. Thinking back to last winter then most of our visitors here were in the 8% and 4% - but then as they are our friends that is not surprising. But as Hells Bells, says is this a breakdown of Crystal's customers or overall?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Crystal demographics make sense to me
25% Students, still on parents' time and young professionals without mortgages
34% Peak skiers , more earnings but still pre family commitments
25% downturn as family commitments bite
50+ less interest in physically active holidays, maybe one partner never really took to it etc etc.
Not sure any of it is evidence of a timebomb. Certainly more students seem to ski a lot more than I could ever afford to when I was at University (effectively had a gap for a few years between 1 week a year with parents U18 and self funding trips once working)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Over the period post credit crunch (after 2007) while the Crystal report shows a 30% decline in the UK snowsports holiday market, CairnGorm Mountain has increased it's rolling five year skier day average year on year, such that it's increased 102% over the same period.
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Crystal always had the best looking "female" reps (I can't really comment on the males as the females seemed to be in the majority in the places I went). I am not sure if that is related to their rising 50% market share. Neilson had a bad year, and no doubt much of their business went to Crystal. Neilson tended to have more male reps than females (in my "dated" experience).
I am sure that the female reps wandering around Val d'Isere had a lot to do with booking a Crystal trip to Breckridge. Vail, Beever Creek and Keystone. The price seemed to be the main reason I booked a trip to Sauze d'Oulx with Neilson, and Val d'Isere.
This seems to contradict the recent market share performance. I would have expected the budget brand to do better in the economic hard times. It is probably related to brand destruction at Thomas Cook due to its share price collapse and subsequent recovery.
Certainly I have skied more in Scotland recently.
It looks like there is probably an economic recovery about to start, judging by the shape of the curve.
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The main reason I'd choose Crystal over Neilson or Inghams is choice of flights (i.e. not limited to Gatwick or Manchester).
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What proportion of skiers are men compared to women queen bodecia?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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BUMP
This years 2014 Crystal Ski Report postponed until September.
Normally the report would be out on Monday but delayed this year until September
Details here http://www.planetski.eu/news/6141
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| Quote: |
The main reason I'd choose Crystal over Neilson or Inghams is choice of flights (i.e. not limited to Gatwick or Manchester).
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Same here although
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Crystal always had the best looking "female" reps
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is always a bonus 
we booked our first holiday with them in April mainly as it was next to snozone where we learnt to ski.
and booked again for Dec as we had a good experience and also there email suggesting where we might like to go.
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FAQ
it really was double your money. The social media and pre hols contact was good and innovative, as we did nearly 6 weeks last year you notice the difference in info between self build and 'organised' We can always knock them but theyve got my vote 
