 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm running a course over the next couple months to help Level 1 instructor candidates pass their first stage exams and hopefully propel their skiing further... I keep getting asked as to what the entry standard is, how good do I have to be etc... BASI have some words on their site and show a trainer doing "dumbed down" turns but their video just looks wrong to me and the words don't tell me much...
here is a video I put together showing a bunch of our clients who we recommended to rock up for exams making turns.
EDIT: The skiing highlighted is typically below the entry point for L1 and virtually all needed to make improvements during the 5 day course, this video is NOT the passing standard for Level 1. Some of the skiers did limited additional training prior to the L1 course, at least one went on to pass the L2 award.
https://vimeo.com/70203428
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 14-07-13 8:45; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wow - they all passed. couple of painful ones in there. some naturals as well. Make it look way too easy
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, well done, I thought looking at a trainer showing the level looked wrong too, far better to show real candidates.
Looks like a good course to get like minded people progressing well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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When my daughter did her's it was perfecting snowplough turns and posture that caused her the greatest difficulty. Might be worth putting something up showing that too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, great video 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Claude B wrote: |
| When my daughter did her's it was perfecting snowplough turns and posture that caused her the greatest difficulty. Might be worth putting something up showing that too. |
+1 to the above.
Congratulations to your candidates for passing.
The first skier must have made tremendous changes during the course and exam.
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I'm famous! Some cringe-worthy clips there from me  . Interesting to see though!
Is the last one Rob disguised and photo shopped thinner?
| Claude B wrote: |
| When my daughter did her's it was perfecting snowplough turns and posture that caused her the greatest difficulty. Might be worth putting something up showing that too. |
+2, I was really struggling with snowploughs before my L1, But a session the week before with the I/O guys suddenly made everything click into place, just in time.
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If that's how good you have to be to pass level 1 basi should be ashamed, it can only be a money thing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree some of the snowplough training stage would be interesting.
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I agree some of the snowplough training stage would be interesting.
And nobody is claiming you have to be an ace skier to get started on the ladder - as in sailing, you do not need to be an ace dinghy sailor to qualify as an instructor.
Some nice turns in there!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If I'm paying good money for a lesson in whatever it may be i would expect the instructor/coach/proffesional to be a little more experienced and skilled in there trade than in this video
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scotts1978 wrote: |
| If I'm paying good money for a lesson in whatever it may be i would expect the instructor/coach/proffesional to be a little more experienced and skilled in there trade than in this video |
Aren't you overlooking the point that the video is intended to demonstrate the entry standard for a Level 1 course? It is not claiming to show the required standard for passing.
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^ ^ ^ This (at least as I understand it.)
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You know it makes sense.
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Surely the 'entry level' is a guide of where you need to be to have a good chance of passing the course? If not its just a tempter from basi to come and spend your money and have a go. I'm not not having a go at the guys/girls who made this video or the people on it. I just feel the standards may be a little low for the wrong reason.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowHeads "TOP TIPS"
SIMPLY decide someone's eventual degree grade by looking at their A-levels!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Scotts1978 wrote: |
| Surely the 'entry level' is a guide of where you need to be to have a good chance of passing the course? If not its just a tempter from basi to come and spend your money and have a go. I'm not not having a go at the guys/girls who made this video or the people on it. I just feel the standards may be a little low for the wrong reason. |
Yes, of course entry level is a guide of where you need to be to have a chance of succeeding but on what basis do you jump from that to an assumption as to what the technical standards are for a pass? Have you taken into account the development of the skier during 6 days of training? and shadowing?
This is a teaching qualification. The technical competence for teaching at a level of qualification is what matters: you need to consider the technical performance in the wider context of teaching.
The video is aiming to show the entry level for the entry level qualification. You can find fault no doubt, but can you point to any fundamental flaw in the skiing of any one of the skiers? Anything that you think a trainer could not develop to a higher standard in 6 days of training?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Claude B - good skiing overall. Issue in the first video is that the weight is too far back with subsequently too much weight on the uphill ski. Very good compared to most on the slopes though!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The implication here is that it is just skiing technique that is the qualifier to taking the L1 if you want to do. Surely as important is the ability to 'teach' and the personality to come over as someone believable and authoritative, with the ability to articulate the lesson and that is also a nice person to work with?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SkiingQuinHat, Yes she had to work hard on that, as she'd been ballet dancing since she was 2 a very straight back is her natural posture. She had to work at getting her feet further apart too.
Megamum, Teaching, analysis, lesson planning, etc is part of the course too and that has to be passed also.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Interesting, slalom guard guy aside all look a lot more natural doing the wedelling than the long turn demo.
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yeah they were mainly trying a bit too hard on the longs, they were going one at a time and the trainer was giving them feedback on the run. Just a bit of first day nerves...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Scotts1978, a qualified BASI L1 can only teach indoors / on plastic in the UK, and typically will be teaching complete beginners up to early parallel turners....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, love the old school bit in the above video, I can do that bit 
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Well at least that proves what i've always said, you don't need to be able to ski to teach someone to ski.
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You know it makes sense.
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adie, the entry standard is not high but I do not think that you really need to be at a high level to teach people the basics (putting skis on, snowplough etc). I would be more interested to see how the candidates perform what they would be teaching.
Actually, for a long time I thought that the skiing standard required for basi level 1 was a lot higher than it is - in my mind I imagined that it was in about what the standard for basi level 2 actually is.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Elston, remember that L1 candidates will typically have had a lot more practice doing the sort of long and short radius turns you see in those videos (as they're the sorts of turns they'll actually use when skiing) than they will have had doing a snowplough, so they will probably find doing a good snowplough much harder than you, or they, would imagine. A good demo of a snowplough is not easy, no matter how good the rest of your skiing is.
adie, you're quite right - to start to be able to teach skiing doesn't mean you have to be that great at doing it. The teenagers in that video can all ski, and to pass I'm sure they'll all need to improve over the week. We all start somewhere and I would say that the BASI L1 puts too much emphasis on personal skiing performance and not nearly enough on teaching ability. I would much rather be taught by someone who was a very talented teacher than a very talented skier.
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Poster: A snowHead
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kieranm, But there is a role model aspect surely? Taking nerves into acocunt and assuming improvement over the course makes it unfair to single out individuals in that clip, but I, as a lay person could probably stratify them as
Can't really ski/promising intermediate
Needs to work on a few things
Almost there
Passable skier
Good skier
Top skier
Obviously the context might mean that people move between bands but I'd hope for at least Passable as L1, Good for L2, Top for L3+.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| The implication here is that it is just skiing technique that is the qualifier to taking the L1 if you want to do. Surely as important is the ability to 'teach' and the personality to come over as someone believable and authoritative, with the ability to articulate the lesson and that is also a nice person to work with? |
Megamum's comment has been dismissed but it's extremely important.
I've never been taught by a ski instructor who couldn't ski at a ridiculously higher standard than me. But I and my family have been taught by several who haven't had a clue how to deal with us as a people, who haven't been remotely able to inspire us, or who haven't had a clue what we're trying to get out of our time with them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonny Jones, I personally think this is an issue with the BASI L1, you could qualify and do your 35 hours shadowing working behind the rental counter. I think they should insist the 35 hours is done shadowing "real" lessons to gain experience.
I also think they should have a module on working with people/presentation/communication/inspiration skills
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Jonny Jones, I understand and agree with Megamum's point but my question would be, "How inspirational should an instructors ability be?"
If I was going to advise a friend who was just starting out on the skiing road I am going to suggest that (given the limited scope of due diligence) I would be looking for rather a higher standard of skiing than I see there. Even just for rank beginners.
Now I appreciate that everyone has to start somewhere, but I question whether BASI best serves its own interests by suggesting that an L1 technical capability is really evidence of the skiing capability of a "ski instructor".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, isn't L2 the first real ski instructor qualification anyway, given how limited L1 actually is? I'd also be interested to see generally the quality of skiing of employed ski instructors who only have the L1 cert. There could be more discernment at the point of hire for example. All a cert does is say you've met some minimum required standard after all and there could be lots of people going around with it who cannot get employment due to employers wanting better skills.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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under a new name, meh, a qualified BASI L1 can only teach indoors / on plastic in the UK, and typically will be teaching complete beginners up to early parallel turners....
I've done 70 hours of shadowing since passing my L1, at Xscape Leeds I've never had to demonstrate more than a plough parallel!
L2 is a huge jump up in the required standard from L1.
I'd also say that the L1 course improves your skiing no end. My normally p*ss taking mates even admitted as much on a ski holiday after my L1.
regards,
Greg
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kitenski, Greg, TBH I hadn't quite thought those limitations through and honestly! mean no disrespect whatsoever, I am however, despite the usual excellent comments on here, struggling to understand why the L1 exists (unless to help transition into the L2).
I am aware of its history (although I can't recall the acronyms) but I rather thought it would fizzle out and die.
As BASI have reversed their numbering, that makes that rather more difficult, tricky to have the initial level as "2" 
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kitenski,
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I'd also say that the L1 course improves your skiing no end.
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This would be my sole reason for doing it. But I'm hoping - and do believe! - that my numerous sessions with IOS are doing some good as well. 
To my untutored eye, there does seem to be some fairly mediocre tuition going on at Hemel, presumably by instructors qualified just to L1.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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under a new name, It exists IMHO for two reasons
1. there are plenty of folk happy to teach indoors and on plastic in the UK, and have no desire to teach in the alps or gain further qualifications
2. as an entry level, and also a way of giving guidance as to when a person could take their L2. I was gob smacked at how much better your skiing has to be for L2 compared to L1, and probably why L2 is a two week intensive course in the Alps.
regards,
Greg
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under a new name, AIUI, L1 was introduced as a filter to prevent people who clearly weren't up to it from turning up at L2. When I did it, you didn't really pass or fail - you got a recommendation of what you needed to improve and how long it was likely to take before coming back to do the L2
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