 Poster: A snowHead
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Could someone please point me at a recommended ski binding adjustment table for normal recreational use? I don't want to just pick any old one off of the internet, and would be happy to take a recommendation from someone I recognise on here as having experience in this area.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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RobW, Raceplate, OK, I can make sense of that, except would I select Marker or Salomon as the make please? I know what I am expecting the result to be so it is just as a check.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Doesn't matter - AFAIK they give exactly the same setting for the same input statistics.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, you should use the type 1 reading.
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spyderjon, OK, I'll do that. How about the kids (10 and 13) who are demon ski any where, anything and as fast as we can skiers - type 1's or 2's?
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| Megamum wrote: |
| spyderjon, OK, I'll do that. How about the kids (10 and 13) who are demon ski any where, anything and as fast as we can skiers - type 1's or 2's? |
Assuming you mean "demon ski anywhere, anything and as fast as we can skiers" piste skiers then type 2 but to then allow for their young ages (ie, not fully developed bones) you go back up one row on the chart so effectively making them an adult type 1.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, this is not helpful, but the pqge recommended me to 8.
I tend to ski recreationally on 6-7 and race on 9-10.
Not very useful.
My dear, I fear you are beginning (?)!! to over analyse your skiing...
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spyderjon, That's great many thanks. Type one for all of us then. I'll do some weighing and measuring and see where we end up. I've been shown what to do and have helped to set up several sets of ski bindings alongside someone that knew what to do, so I'm going to have a tweak with a set and then get someone more experienced to check what I've done before they are used to check my understanding. I need to learn and must be capable of doing so.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, I use this one - http://www.filesland.com/dincalculator/ It's a small downloadable programme.
And as mentioned above, because DIN is an international standard, all the charts should give you the same value for the same inputs. And DIN settings should the same for all the binding maufacturers, although as spyderjon has a torque tester, perhaps he's found this to be not strictly true.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Skier from Argentina, Well I did assume from the outset that this would be the case, but the internet being what the internet is I thought it best to ask, just to ensure that what I pointed at was indeed reliable and I am grateful that folks took that request at face value 
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Megamum, dont forget to check / set the forward binding pressure along with the DIN
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You know it makes sense.
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crypto, check! , I adjust the boot length so the correct number marker tick marks on the adjuster scale that these bindings have can be seen when the boot is in place. Then I find the setting using measurements and the charts, I adjust the dial at the back, I adjust the dial at the front and I get some one experienced to check that everything I've done appears to be correct. It seems to require attention to detail, a knowledge of how to find things out and what to do, but with some pointers (as I have had previously - I have gone through the process with new boots on the kids skis with someone that knew the ropes about 8 times now) I don't think it is beyond me to do it safely esp. if I get things checked the first time or so. I aim to set up a pair and take them to the HH ISO meeting on Saturday where hopefully I can find someone experienced enough and willing to give me their opinion on what I have done.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 11-07-13 10:37; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The table gave me a 3 for my daughter, which is what I was expecting
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Megamum wrote: |
| crypto, check! , I adjust the boot length so the correct number marker tick marks on the adjuster scale that these bindings have can be seen when the boot is in place. Then I find the setting using measurements and the charts, I adjust the dial at the back, I adjust the dial at the front and I get some one experienced to check that everything I've done appears to be correct. It seems to require attention to detail, a knowledge of how to find things out and what to do, but with some pointers (as I have had previously - I have gone through the process with new boots on the kids skis with someone that knew the ropes about 8 times now) I don't think it is beyond me to do it safely esp. if I get things checked the first time or so. I aim to set up a pair and take them to the HH ISO meeting on Saturday where hopefully I can find someone experienced enough and willing to give me their opinion on what I have done. |
It doesn't look to me as if you have described setting the forward pressure here.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rjs, Well that is all I have seen done when anyone has adjusted skis for me or when I have helped in the process.
I am sure the front binding adjustment is this bit:
| Quote: |
| I adjust the dial at the front |
this is done by moving the big screw I the front of the toe of the binding
Having reviewed the forward binding adjustment videos online the adjustment of this on the Elan fusion bindings seems driven by the adjustment of the front screw and the associated calibrated scale. When I have seen this done in the past this screw has been adjusted to same setting as the DIN adjustment on the back. I have looked at the same bindings on other skis here and this is exactly what has been done. There is no other adjustment mechanism on the front of the ski and I am certain that the screw and the scale adjusts the front binding pressure. However, I'll never learn without trying - I shall set them up as I am sure it needs doing, and find a knowledgeable person at HH to check that they are correct.
However, at least due to your observation I have now checked that there doesn't appear to be something else that I have missed.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 11-07-13 12:11; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"Forward pressure adjustment" is not the same as "front part of the binding DIN setting". It's a check that the two parts of the bindings are the right distance apart. A lot of adjustable bindings have a guide printed on them to get the initial separation based on sole length (which you describe doing), but it is good practice to then check the forward pressure indicator on the binding to verify that this is correct. Without it being in the correct range the binding is not safe. You adjust the forward pressure by typically moving the rear part of the binding forward or back a notch.
Unfortunately the forward pressure indicator is different on just about every binding I've ever seen. You need to consult the manufacturer's guide for those bindings to find out how to do it (or ask someone who knows about those specific bindings). Someone could be very knowledgeable about skis and binding set up in general, and still not know how to check forward pressure on your particular set.
It doesn't surprise me that you've never seen anyone check forward pressure, especially if you're basing this on how the loan skis are dealt with at HH. I've never seen them check forward pressure there, which I find worrying. I think they might have some sort of colour-coded system of skis and boots that means they never move the bindings and so don't need to check it every time (in theory) but I still think it would be good practice to check, and last time I was there I noticed they did move the bindings on a pair of skis, and then not check forward pressure, so I don't know how that can work. I'm not familiar with the bindings they're using though, so perhaps they are checking or they somehow adjust automatically or something, so if you can get an explanation I'd be interested!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kieranm, I'm basing this process on helping adjust my own skis in my own house. I have helped when the bindings are worked on by someone who has been on a proper binding training course. I have never seen any further adjustments made. There is a tab in the rear of the binding which should show a certain number of tick marks when the boot is correctly in place - this is currently showing the same as it was when my own boot was in place having been set up at the shop. I've adjusted the binding length by using the neatly printed scale - these are bindings on rails so as you slide the front the back adjusts by the same degree thus keeping the boot central, but I've been taught that these can go the odd click each side so I have also verified that the boot is in the same position as my own is in another pair of the same type of binding when starting and during the clicking in process. AFAICS there is nothing lost by me trying the process, if I pay a guy in a shop at HH to check them and they are wrong then I will know that the process is beyond me and not to try again, if I find that they agree with what I have done, then I will know that I understand how to adjust this type of binding.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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musher, That's the video I found and watched  The equivalent screw on the Elan bindings is attached to the scale adjuster.
One thing I do know is the importance of this process and why I need to make sure that I have done this properly.
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Megamum,
I didn't quite follow your description of what you did, but having looked at the Elan technical manual ( http://elan.create-ion.at/pdfs/techn_manual_english.pdf ) then maybe you have.
In the manual, the the procedure for setting the boot length including forward pressure on the Fusion binding as described on page 30 and especially at the top of page 31, where it states "If you have followed all steps correctly, the indicator should rest in the marked area." Does it?
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| kieranm wrote: |
HH. .. last time I was there I noticed they did move the bindings on a pair of skis, and then not check forward pressure |
If you are working with a small number of different make/models of bindings then you quickly get familiar with how close the heel of a boot needs to be to the binding when adjusting the length to get the forward pressure correct first time, and then it is literally 1 or 2 seconds to check the indicator is in the correct place (which of course you'd know as you work with those bindings all the time). Unless you were being especially observant you'd probably not realise what there are doing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
There is a tab in the rear of the binding which should show a certain number of tick marks when the boot is correctly in place - this is currently showing the same as it was when my own boot was in place having been set up at the shop
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That sounds like the forward pressure indicator, and it sounds like you are checking it, so nothing to worry about. RobW's manual, if it matches your bindings, will give full details of this so you can be sure you're reading the indicator correctly and not just relying on it being correctly set up before. None of it is difficult, but making sure you've done it right, as you are doing, is very wise.
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RobW, Manual digested - skis rechecked - yes, it is the little tab with the notches on that I was already paying attention to and yes, it falls within the marked area.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, Good! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Further investigations: The thing with the bindings is that the boot adjustment comes in 'toothed steps' it is not adjustable between these due to the need to slot a set of teeth into place when you lock it back up again - each tooth makes the difference of about 4-5mm adjustment in boot sole length. I've experimented. Moving from one tooth to next is the difference between the notches on the tab being only just starting to be in the marked area, and almost being at the end of the marked area. However, at both tooth movements, the notches ARE in the marked area.
This is more marked on one ski than the other with the same boot. On one ski I've got it beautifully slap bang in the middle, the other is slightly more towards the end despite both rails boot lengths being set up in visually exactly the same places.
Even if I tweak the length on the errant one I can't get it to match exactly with the other. I've decided that since on either tooth setting the mark IS just in the notched area (and the manual says that it has to be in the notched area which both are to a greater or lesser degree) that I will go for exactly the same boot length visually and have one ski where it is slap bang in the middle of the notched area and the other where it closer to one end though still in the area). A perfect match isn't achievable due to the toothed mechanism preventing an infinitely variable adjustment of boot length. This goes against the grain with me as I like perfection, but mechanically it isn't possible to get an exact match on both skis due to vary slight variances in where each tooth causes the boot length to end up.
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FAQ
