 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi folks,
I live outside Washington, DC and this is my first post. Because eldest daughter is now a bit too old to be yanked out of school for a ski week, I am now resigned to skiing at Spring Break (this year, the week before Easter, i.e., the week of 9 April). My wife and I are both advanced skiers, but have each only skied once in Europe (me at Verbier in a group chalet with some blokes from the UK) some time ago. Also, because we have barely over a week, and will be sclhepping 2 kids, a relatively convenient trip and resort layout would be nice. I had originally been think Zermatt (reliable snow and good challenge) but the logistics seemed a bit daunting. We are, of course, looking for "value for money" but it is not the #1 consideration. Any recommendations would be most appreciated!
A second question we have concerns the needs for guides. My wife and I will not be content to stick on groomers, but can't really afford 300 Euros per day for one. On the other hand, we'd preferred not to unwittingingly head off a cliff or explore the bowels of a crevasse. Any tips for exploring off-piste without rupturing the bank account? Is there something more reasonable than hiring a private guide?
By the way, I have skiied at very nearly all major North American resorts and am more than happy to give info on the same.
Cheers,
Pete
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pmurtha, welcome to snowheads, has to be Chamonix apart from the fact that it's not very convenient to get around but the buses are free and can get you to all the ski areas. Otherwise it's Tignes, although Tignes is further away from Geneva, 3-4hrs transfer compared to an hour for Chamonix.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Howdy Pete,
It is possible to join in a 'black' level ski group. In St Anton Austria the most advanced group of the ski school would often ski off piste nearly all day, sometimes without a lunch stop! All this for the normal price of ski school, an avalanche tranciever was given to me the first time when all I expected was to concentrate on technique! Great fun and value, depends on the conditions though, I was lucky and had the last powder day of last season with Remy (i think that was his name) in the 2nd week of April after working as a rep for the season. I should have gone home the weekend before, but the weather forecast changed my mind!
I'm sure other ski schools do a similar advanced class.
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pmurtha, one option might be to join an off-piste group such as those offered by www.alpineexperience.com or www.topskival.com both of whom operate from Val d'Isere. Rates are around 50 Euro per half-day. Alpine Experience and Top Ski both have very good reputations.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Pete,
I skied Montgenevre, Les Deux Alpes & la Grave, France at the end of April 2005.
All three areas had great conditions - powder on substantial bases.
The areas were quiet and relatively inexpensive (25 euros night B&B) if you're not looking for the lap of luxury.
Add in Serre Chevalier and Alpe d'Huez and you have an extensive playground.
The off-piste at Montgenevre and Les Deux Alpes was obvious and I would say an experienced skier does not need to hire a guide for these areas. Definitely hire a guide for la Grave if you want to get the best of this area.
Spend time at some or all of these areas and you have terrain to suit all ability levels.
Hope that helps.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pmurtha hang on, before we get into recommending "convenient" resorts (otherwise this post will get unweildy), give us an idea of which Continental airport you intend flying into.
Are you flying straight into one of the international airport hubs that're close to Alpine ski resorts: e.g:
Geneva (France & east Switzerland)
Zurich (rest of Switzerland)
Munich (technically Germany, but gives access to Swizterland & Austria resorts)
Salzburg (Austria)
???????
Alternatively, if you didn't mind a multi-leg jaunt, e.g. stopping in London first before heading into the depths of Europe - then this would allow you to transfer onto a short-leg airline which will dramatically open up the list of airports and hence "convenient" resorts.
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pmurtha, Tignes is a good bet. As far as off-piste goes - remember that over here it's at your own risk....having said that, it's pretty easy in Tignes to work out where to go.
How long are you here for ?
DittoMike Pow, 's comments about LG - but if you like off-piste it's worth a go. Also, it would be a pitty not to go to Cham, it isn't convieniant at all, but the Grands Montets and Aiguille du Midi make up for that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Although it is at a relatively low altitude, I have never had any problems in April in portes du soleil - certainly more value-for-money than zermatt. Although the snow might not be as great as higher altitude resorts and the powder might not hold on for as long, pds is often (wrongfully) ignored for late-season skiing, meaning that the place is much quieter than usual. There also is no chance of falling into a crevasse or anything, and given you are well informed on the avalanche danger for the day, I think you probably wouldn't really need a guide. With a little exploration, and possibly avoiding following the crowds and flocking to Avoriaz every day, there is some half-decent terrain to be had. Otherwise, how about the grand massif (flaine, somoëns, morrillon) or even better, chamonix - possibly one of the best places for spring skiing, my personal favorite!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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dub_01, sshhhhhh! Someone might believe you and then where does all the nice quiet end of skiing go?
IMHO, Chamonix is a tremendous destination but not ideal if kids are ski-schooling and they're on a different mountain to you. Shame to come to Europe and NOT ski it though...
Pete, are you hiring a car? In which case there's the "ski safari" option. Pick somewhere in the middle of lots of resorts (we can of course offer much free advice) and you get to go lots of places.
If I had to pick one, although I'm not convinced it's representative of European skiing then Val d'Isere would probably be it. Not my favourite place, but high, big, all the facilities, etc. And Top Ski, Alpine Experiences, etc. for fun off piste groups as previously mentioned.
If you pick Chamonix, shameless plug yet again (although I have no pecuniary interest, honest) http://www.gotochamonix.com.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi Pete
Any luck yet?
We had snow here right until 30th April (when the lifts shut) and beyond. In fact it was some of the best skiing of the season as the slopes were empty so just good standard skiers and boarders around. I think some of the pros stayed on after the Candide invitational at the beginning of April - which is happening again this year on the 1st and 2nd April.
We have space in April here at gravité (www.gravite.co.uk) and off piste guiding starts at 40euros pp 1.2 day or ski touring for 55euros pp. As hosts we would quite happily show you the harder runs.
There is more guiding info on www.aravis-challenge.com - these guys are the more extreme skiers than ESF.
Hope this helps - drop us an email if you are intersted.
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pmurtha, I will echoMike Pow, and say come here. If you fly into Paris you can get the TGV direct from the sirport to Grenoble, where you can either hire a car or tax (expensive), or take a bus up to resort (about 1½ hours). We have a tremendous late season rep, and the top of La Grave was open until 8 May last year. You can access La Grave from here free if you have a 6 day liftpass, and I may be able to help you out with off piste access. Lots of our off piste doesn't require a guide to access it - it's clearly visible from the lifts/pistes. the town is large (35,000 beds), but has a really friendly atmosphere. there is all sorts of accommodation to suit your pocket/taste too.
PM me for more detailed info if you like or checkout www.les2alpes.com of my own website, which has a lot of general info on it. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Folks,
I much appreciate all the very helpful advice. I am much now more focused on the convenience of the resorts relative to the airports and the convenience to the lifts arrangement once we're there. I have, agonizingly, pretty much narrowed it down to Chamonix -- great late snow (we won't begin our week until 9 April), lots of charm proximity to Geneva. (Zurich is actually the only non-stop flight I can get from D.C., but St. Anton's is still 3 hours away, and I can't seem to dig up much info on Andermatt -- let me know if I should reconsider!)
Assuming I stick with Chamonix -- and bearing in mind we'll have our daughters 12 and 9 with us, and they will be in ski school half the days -- can anyone make a recommendation of where in Chamonix we should stay? We are willing to hire a car if that needs to be part of the equation. The girls are advanced intermediates, and my spouse and I spend almost all of our time on black trails (U.S. of course!), but it would be nice to all be skiing on the same mountain so we're not killing ourselves to make the end-of-the-day pick-up. An apartment would probably work best for us, if anyone has particular recommendations, and after a drink or two after a hard day on the slopes, I would confess to not having a whole lot of apres left!
Looking forward to your further guidance as to particular mountains within Chamonix, and the most convenient location -- all things considered.
Cheers,
Pete
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Will P.M. you with as much info' as i can. So tired tonight after a busy day. Don't commit to anything until the end of next week. Will look forward to helping you as i can. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Thanks -- I'm not in a huge hurry and will be happy to wait for your advice.
Cheers,
Pete
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pmurtha, I wouldn't worry about direct flights at all. Hubbing over any of the Western European gateways (London, Paris, Brussels Manchester , Amsterdam, Frankfurt ) will add little to your journey time to any of the major alpine destinations and for 4 people are invariably significantly cheaper.
Given what you have said about your wish to stay together etc . are you sure that Chamonix is right for you? It is hardly a 'charming' location and reading everything here the assorted disparate locations do NOT make for easy access and ski-ing the same hill. April is also towards the end of our season and the higher altitude resorts (Tignes, L2A, etc.) would normally be the recomendations made on here for your needs at that time of year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pmurtha,
Welcome and good question..
The point about Chamonix as rergards your situation is that the off-piste potential is limitless but the ski schools can/will be on different mountains and communicating after half days are not really what you want to do all week.
The pros are 1 hrs drive from Geneva and served by train well, although NOT from Geneva and you must a do a variation of the Vallee blanche. The 'classic' version which most people start with is little more than a mountain track through stupendous terrain although the weather can change this completely. Also, it is an amazing mountain town etc etc...
But as David Murdoch says you might be sepearted from the kids all day and if not that might kill your exploration. Can't say there is anything more negative about Chamonix than that...!! Most skiing starts at about 2000m although the town is 1000m so you will be getting lifts up and down. The views are great so thats not so much a hardship...!!
If you are considering Zurich you can get to Engelberg via a 2hr train direct from the airport right into the village.
Again the scenery is classic but the skiing is more compact. Easy excursions on the glacier and it is a place to take care but an experienced skier should find it ok. Even if you join a school for the one day it should give you enough confidence to route find yourself. And as the skiing is pretty well on one HUGE mounatin you can link up easily. Most people take radios and bob's your uncle.
I would also say Les Duex alpes is worth a look and has more of the same. Snow sure glacier and huge mileage. Big mountain.
Nearest airport is Grenoble or Lyon. Geneva is too far in your case I think.
All three destinations have high mountain terrain and the usual caveats apply regarding safety and guides. You may be able to go to the local guide/ski school and join a like minded group to keep the costs reasonable.
The world is your lobster...!!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have not been to Chamonix in winter so will not comment, but I do agree with the idea that Val D'Isere in particular is very convenient both fotr reasonably priced off piste ski schools and childrens terrain instruction etc. Probably 2 Alpes as well though I don't know the ski schools.
Main point is that from America you may find it cheaper and possibly more convenient and timely flying to Paris and taking a TGV down to the Alps than changing planes from a hub to a closer airport and then trying to get transport on. From Zurich though Engleberg and Andermatt are within reasonable range I am not sure what their infrastructure is for off piste groups and late season suitability for children.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We did a week in Chamonix with the kids in 2001 and it was o.k. La Tour was the best. We didn't use ski schools as our kids are good enough to ski with us. Some of the others in the party used a ski guide who was a friend of the chalet owners. I'm not sure if he was quite legal, but he picked the kids up at the chalet in the morning and returned them to wherever we were skiing at lunch time so this worked well.
Chamonix is particularly spread out and you do tend to get stuck in one place or the other. We were in a chalet slightly out of the town and the owners bused us too and from the slopes and told us which lifts were open! As one day Brevant and Flegere were closed - so back to la Tour. Good job they knew or we would have had some very frustrating bus journeys to the other lifts. We went in late March which was the english and french easter hols - a nightmare with the lifts especially Brevant and Flegere - where it took over an hour everytime to get up the mountain - not good with kids who are bundled up and impatient! So a few tense moments. Needless to say we haven't been back except in the summer. It's not the best place to ski with kids as it is so seperated - especially when the link between the Flegere and Brevant lifts is closed later in the season as it was with us.
We ski La Clusaz now (only 3hrs TGV from Paris to Annecy then 1/2 hr to the resort) but occasionally in Flaine (I know it's ugly but it's good skiing which is what matters).
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Oh another thing about Swiss trains - which to Brits are a revelation anyway - is that you can book your luggage through to the resort so therefore saving big hassle time luuging it about with the kids. And I know a nice hotel 2 mins walk to the main lft...
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Chamonix is a great off piste resort but a guide is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. Sorry I don't do shouting on message boards usually.
Lots, if not most, of the Chamonix off piste skiing is on glaciers therefore a guide is a must because of the crevasse danger.
The pistes themselves are narrow and not the sort of runs you can easily cruise about on. The Good Ski Guide famously refers to one run as "a diificult blue" which is obviously deliberate sarcasm but it makes a point. The runs to the resort which look inviting on the piste map are often closed even in high season and will be almost certainly closed in late season. Chamonix despite it's altitude can get a lot of damp weather. I am told this is because the main valley is so exposed to the west.
I would also agree with the other limitations of the resort that several other posters have made.
The safe bet, transport problems not withstanding, I would say is Val d'Isere. It's not my favourire resort personally for other reasons, but it does have something for everybody and I believe the lifts are often still running in May.
I am not trying to knock Chamonix, I have been there a number of times, but always with guides.
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pmurtha, I also don't wish to knock Chamonix - the off piste ski-ing capital of the world, but i don't think it will really suit your requirements. I think we'd all be sad if you came all this way and found a resort which really doesn't suit. As I say, if you fly to Paris, TGV is direct from the airport to Grenoble in less than 3 hours. Drive from Grenoble to either here or Alpe d'Huez is around 1½ hours. Both resorts are high and have a particularly good late season record. Obviously I prefer LDA since I live there. Lots for everyone and something of everything you mention. Even a British Ski school (and me of course) and many excellent guides. Lots of off piste, and La Grave is a must if you like off piste ski-ing.
How good are your kids? Are they just learning, or can they ski a bit?
I'm not trying to dis Chamonix - I just can't see it working foryou.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pmurtha, As and adjunct to everything else you read ... I suspect that the Alps would all fit nicely into any US-state you care to mention ( apart from RI and Delaware) .. so getting around is not too difficult, contrary to what you might expect - if you focus on France -Switzerland as opposed to Switzerland-Austria. I believe your proposed trip also benefits from not being UK or French school holidays ( can someone else confirm?) so you should be on a winner !
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pmurtha
The French school holidays in the Haute Savoie are late 22 April - 9 May. But the French tend not to take a week long late ski holiday for easter, just weekends, so you are usualy quite safe during the week. Their big ski hols are in Feb, and for most of it!
English school holidays this year are anywhere from the 3-26th April - so there is no getting away from those.
You just need to choose somewhere not all the brits go - stay away from the big resorts and you won't get the lift queues.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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graviteski, Do the French ski after the end of March? Easter's so late I'm anticipating it being dead quiet.
pmurtha, yeah, Chamonix may not be your best bet as explained above. If you're really set on it, you can find fine accommodation at http://www.gotochamonix.com.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pmurtha
The french ski mostly at weekends after their half term in February. So the popular resorts become busier Saturdays and Sundays. There will be some french around without a doubt, it's mostly the Parisians who come to ski for a week. They tend to have the cash and go to the bigger reosrts too - to flash the bling.. and fur .. as much as the french do!
In the haute Savoie those from Lyon, Geneva, Grenoble etc. just come up at weekends to ski as it's only a couple of hours away. I think you find this the same in most resorts. The french on the whole don't travel far to anywhere!
So I don't think the resorts will be completely dead - the larger ones i.e Val d'isere, Les Deuxs Alps, Tignes, Morzine and Chamonix will be mainly full of brits on holidays, making the most of the snow. You also get a few germans, and dutch (especially in Flaine for some reason) and a few italians crossing the border.
The lift queues won't be as long as in the Feb half term that's for sure.
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graviteski, We have 51% French visitors. The other 49% is about 26% Brits, 28% Dutch, a few more Belgians3?% , and a good smattering of East Europeans - Full of Brits???? Approx 12% of the total visitors!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks to all for your impassioned, informative and often amusing advice! You have convinced me that Chamonix is better left for when the kids are older and skiing on their own. I was swayed by the high slopes and convenience to the airport of Chamonix, but I now better realize that airport proximity is not that big a deal -- it will make no difference in terms of how much we ski. With this in mind, and with the benefit of the advice received, I have started a new and hopefully better focused thread: "Great skiing in Alps for Enthusiastic Family for the Week Before Easter." May the snow rise up to meet your chin!
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