 Poster: A snowHead
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Over the past couple of seasons I've found a couple of things that really seem to work for me in improving my form on snow when I think about them. I really need a third to complete the set and have a Harb like system I can licence to the world while I collect the royalties and swan up Alaskan peaks in a private A star.
Any suggestions - obviously "take a lesson" won't bring in the big bucks.
Seriously though I'm going skiing tomorrow, I don't have anything specific I want to focus on so just stuff to think about would be fun. Preferably mental cues in the form of Allen + Mike rather than drills.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 18-05-13 10:12; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, I find vodka helps.
(33% of your royalties please....................  )
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fatbob, NEVER forget how lucky you are to be skiing in the mountains.
Well, it works for me
(33% of your royalties please........ )
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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what are the first two? perhaps putting those out will help winkle out a third
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ALQ wrote: |
fatbob, NEVER forget how lucky you are to be skiing in the mountains.
Well, it works for me
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Works for me too!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Does hemel count as mountains?
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skimottaret,
Pointing my inner knee on larger radius.
Crossing under on shorter radius.
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fatbob, So you just need something for the middle radius then? Would sir like to try this belt on for size? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Pointing my inner knee on larger radius.
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where do you point it?
How about, "long leg , short leg"
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Think that might be what I achieve by pointing the inside knee , makes me a bit more dynamic and develops a higher outside edge angle I think.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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or bike pedalling, worked well for me off piste this year, esp in cack snow
ie weight on outer ski (right foot), less/no weight on inner ski, then imagine 'pedalling' so weight transfers to left foot and as 'pedal' lifts, weight comes off right foot.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Shout out "POWER!" through each turn!
Less embarrassing in a group! 
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| kitenski wrote: |
or bike pedalling, worked well for me off piste this year, esp in cack snow
ie weight on outer ski (right foot), less/no weight on inner ski, then imagine 'pedalling' so weight transfers to left foot and as 'pedal' lifts, weight comes off right foot..... |
You see that as an off-piste technique? I've always thought of that as piste orientated, particularly for fall line short carved turns where you want to accelerate. Think short arc, long radius in BASI speak. Mind you, that may be exactly how you're skiing in crud snow in order to maintain speed to power through it if it's not too deep (as opposed to trying to stay on top of it). It's good for slush too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Raceplate, off piste in crud/slush, yes, just gentle use of weight on the outer ski, stopped me trying to rotate my feet and force the turns......
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ever try "point the inside knee" on shorter radius turns?
Not saying it'll work. But it's in the same theme as your other two and it MIGHT work.
I can't say what I "think of" when I do short radius. But I have a vague thought of "riding the skis round the apex of the turn", which stops me from pushing the ski tail to the outside ("rushing the turn") when it's rounding its way down the fall line .
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, do you mean pointing the knee to the inside of the turn like this ? still confused a bit
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, I'm not fatbob. But I also received similar advice and found it helpful.
What I was told, point the inner knee to where the ski WILL travel.
So, during the turn, it's to the inside of the turn. But as I finish the turn, it'll need to point more neutral, till it got switched over to the other knee as the inside knee.
For me, it achieves both shortening my inside leg and putting the ski on higher edge at the apex of the turn. While the turn finishes, it gradually lengthen that leg and reduce the ski's edge angle until it becomes the outside leg.
All the while, the outside leg tend to matches the same knee angle so the ski edge is matched. And geometry dictates that leg will be the long one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, I can't work out that photo. For all the world, it looks like your skis have crossed!
Edit: I guess the real track of your inside ski is obscured by your outside leg.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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laundryman, Ah I see what you mean, I think what appears to be my inner track is an old track from someone else... not the best photo..
fatbob, Not sure that pointing the inner knee really does much in terms of long leg short leg but defo helps with ensuring both skis are engaged and stops the inside leg from going flat and smearing... As per the photo you can "point" your inner knee without having a strong long outside leg...
I tend to find when asking people to "point" the knee they end up moving the outside knee in and creating a weak A frame.. What works better for me is to try to "drive the knees onto the tips of the skis"..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yep I guess A framing is a possible consequence. Generally I'd be trying to point it more or less to where the turn would end if it completely finished. What it achieves for me is as you say a more active inner ski and actually more flex in that leg.
Didn't discover any magic bullets yesterday. Discovered one distinctly non-magic bullet - don't cross your tails at the bottom of a turn when telemarking on twin tips. It's actually possible to pin yourself to the slope when your upper ski is below the lower one and won't release 
PS getting the hang of your old SL skis now though it's too tempting to chuck em sideways for a bite stivot style.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I sometimes think about "pointing" or at least initiating the turn with the inside knee; and that's in an attempt to get rid of an A frame.
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Mosha Marc, me too, but it's annoyingly less effective on one side.
fatbob, sorry to have missed seeing the result of the non-magic bullet!
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| Quote: |
Crossing under on shorter radius.
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I've had really mixed opinions from the instructors I've used on when/if to use a 'cross-under' (on both long and short turns) - so would be interested to know the reasoning on this one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There is no reasoning - it's just my personal mental trigger about how to make transitions that need to happen fast, happen fast. I'll leave it for the pros to consider whether it's good or bad advice to the hypothetical punter on the Clapham Omnibus (not a reference to Pedantica btw).
Otherwise as I discovered while playing yesterday I'm just as likely to stivot (and everyone can also take with a pinch of salt whether I'm using that term correctly - I'd call it skidivot or maybe drop the V)
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abj, I feel that I can do cross-under turns faster than cross-over but can sustain pressure above the fall-line better in a long radius turn with cross-over. My suggestion would be to go with what feels right at the time.
I also think that I A frame less when crossing-under so can get closer to a slalom gate.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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xx
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 2-02-16 22:57; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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WTF is cross through?
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You know it makes sense.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| I tend to find when asking people to "point" the knee they end up moving the outside knee in and creating a weak A frame.. What works better for me is to try to "drive the knees onto the tips of the skis".. |
That's why I found pointing the INNER knee helpful.
Though I admit it could be very personal. I think it'll likely work better to correct inactive inside skis (people coming from the 'old style' of almost no weight on the inside ski). Probably not so effective for newer learner who had already too much weight on the inside ski.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
Though I admit it could be very personal. I think it'll likely work better to correct inactive inside skis (people coming from the 'old style' of almost no weight on the inside ski). Probably not so effective for newer learner who had already too much weight on the inside ski. |
Ah ha - a damascene moment for me here. I've never really thought about the differences between the 2 sets of "developers" and always wondered why there was so much bollux spouted and drills targetting getting weight on the outside ski as I just thought it was default. Because on the skis I originally learnt on it was. Thanks.
Solution put the newbies on some Old school straight skis as a drill 
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, So it's a Wazzer Term TM? I thought cross-under is moving the skis under you, cross-over is moving over the skis, whether there is material retraction or extansion is another dynamic.
I hope any physicists on top of relativity can create a decent thread out of this notwithstanding the fact that we've lost our most recent prominent "I'm a physicist dontyouknoweo"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
| WTF is cross through? |
To me it's moving ones hips laterally across the skis with no rise (cross over) but no leg retraction either (cross under). |
Shirley you have to retract a bit if there is to be no rise at all.
Sounds a rather lazy, low performance way of skiing to me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
spyderjon, So it's a Wazzer Term TM? I thought cross-under is moving the skis under you, cross-over is moving over the skis, whether there is material retraction or extansion is another dynamic.
I hope any physicists on top of relativity can create a decent thread out of this notwithstanding the fact that we've lost our most recent prominent "I'm a physicist dontyouknoweo" |
fatbob, no, the inside knee move is the Wazza bit. I think of 'point my inside knee where I want to go'.
fatbob/rjs, see musher's link in his post re cross through.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rjs wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
| WTF is cross through? |
To me it's moving ones hips laterally across the skis with no rise (cross over) but no leg retraction either (cross under). |
Shirley you have to retract a bit if there is to be no rise at all.
Sounds a rather lazy, low performance way of skiing to me. |
Sounds it, I admit. However it is done at high speed so that vertical rise is eliminated. I'm still practising
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 20-05-13 19:33; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, 
Fair enough - post edited - better?
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slikedges, better but I note even the mention of geeky instructor acronyms has killed BZK stone dead for over 24 hours. I call it homeopathy of words, the presence of ILE attaches to even your sprucely edited post.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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xx
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 25-04-16 22:11; edited 1 time in total
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To restart the discussion a bit, if I look at the definitions on the page on Fastman's website I would consider the middle sequence to be an example of cross-under.
His description of cross-through includes the need to flex the legs to prevent the COM from rising.
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FAQ
