rungsp, Yup, someone has, but that someone was our rob@rar so I'm inclined to think I am, but I don't think it's excessively in the back seat, although its clearly something that needs fixing.
That's a bit like saying "I keep hitting the ball on the frame of my racket but it's not excessive" . It's that fundamental, honest.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kenny, well it was one thing specifically that Greg didn't tell me about at any point in 10 hours of lessons. Others in the group lesson certainly had that comment, and occasionally that they were too far forward, but notably (I actually noted it!) he never commented on my position over the skis or tried to get me to change it from that sort of perspective (maybe there was too much else wrong to fix first!). Though I do understand that if the weight is correct then it helps me to engage the edges at the front of the skis so they can take me around a turn.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I am not sure what THE answer is, but sloe gin is a pretty good answer to most things.
Kenny, well it was one thing specifically that Greg didn't tell me about at any point in 10 hours of lessons. Others in the group lesson certainly had that comment, and occasionally that they were too far forward, but notably (I actually noted it!) he never commented on my position over the skis or tried to get me to change it from that sort of perspective (maybe there was too much else wrong to fix first!). Though I do understand that if the weight is correct then it helps me to engage the edges at the front of the skis so they can take me around a turn.
That's fine I don't want to tread on anyone else's toes. Balance is 'the thing' I get best results with whether it's beginners or people trying double-blacks for the first time. If you stay in 'a stance' you will either be too far forward or too far back or just right depending on which part of the turn you are on. If you can stand any more of this coaching-by-internet-game-of-darts maybe watch your video again and just concentrate on what the skis are doing and whether you think there is approximately equal pressure on the front as the back all the way round the turn. Anyway good luck and remember video is really really cruel for everyone, I bet even Ted Ligety winced at a few of his turns!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Maybe a bit of lateral thinking could help, relating to the dynamics of launching your body down a slope (I hope this makes sense )...
Forget about skiing for a while (it's supposedly summer after all) and find yourself a moderately angled grassy slope and jog down it in a similar way to the way you'd ski it.
You'll find that the body's natural reaction is to hold back (with your hands held back) so that your body doesn't overtake your feet. Now try moving your hands forward, which will bring your weight forward and you'll find that your upper body starts to try to travel faster than your feet so you naturally feel you're getting out of control.
You should be able to sense the difference between hanging back to prevent getting out of control & letting yourself go where you start to accelerate.
Now imagine the same situation when you're on some nice slippery planks - even though you're heading down the same slope, you can afford to allow your hands (and consequently your upper body) to move forward as your body will now find it more difficult to overtake your skis - hopefully your feet will catch your body up.....
The dynamics are much the same, it's just a case re-programming the mind so you're more willing to commit to launching the bod. down the slope with the confidence that your feet should always get there first
Kenny, I suspect you are correct, as rob@rar also said I was in the back seat. I guess that it is correct at some point in the turn, but as I am notably 'static' then of course I won't be correct all the way around the turn just as you say. Maybe it will correct itself as I get the weight transferred to the new outside ski a bit earlier and start to steer the skis around the turn as in order to do that I imagine I will have to bring the weight forward earlier. I'll do some more practicing on the Skia device as well which might help.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum wrote:
Kenny, I suspect you are correct, as rob@rar also said I was in the back seat. I guess that it is correct at some point in the turn, but as I am notably 'static' then of course I won't be correct all the way around the turn just as you say. Maybe it will correct itself as I get the weight transferred to the new outside ski a bit earlier and start to steer the skis around the turn as in order to do that I imagine I will have to bring the weight forward earlier. I'll do some more practicing on the Skia device as well which might help.
My last word I promise. Looking at the Skia device it seems you have to to keep your center of mass over your feet (which you already do just fine when you ski which IMHO is the issue). When skiing often the center of mass needs to be ahead of the feet and this does not feel natural at all, lordy no. As far as I can tell on the Skia you would fall flat on your face if you, for example, pulled your feet back or extended forward and that's the kind of negative reinforcement we don't need .
After all it is free
After all it is free
Megamum wrote:
and start to steer the skis around the turn
You shouldn't be steering the skis. You lean over a bit or a lot, keep a good form and good balance and the skis steer themselves.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Kenny wrote:
Megamum wrote:
Kenny, I suspect you are correct, as rob@rar also said I was in the back seat. I guess that it is correct at some point in the turn, but as I am notably 'static' then of course I won't be correct all the way around the turn just as you say. Maybe it will correct itself as I get the weight transferred to the new outside ski a bit earlier and start to steer the skis around the turn as in order to do that I imagine I will have to bring the weight forward earlier. I'll do some more practicing on the Skia device as well which might help.
My last word I promise. Looking at the Skia device it seems you have to to keep your center of mass over your feet (which you already do just fine when you ski which IMHO is the issue). When skiing often the center of mass needs to be ahead of the feet and this does not feel natural at all, lordy no. As far as I can tell on the Skia you would fall flat on your face if you, for example, pulled your feet back or extended forward and that's the kind of negative reinforcement we don't need .
The skia is designed to teach you by proprioception to keep your body centered through the middle of the feet, this doesn't change when you're skiing, your COG should always stay through the center of your feet perpendicular to whatever pitch of slope you are on, "stay centered" it might look like you are more forward skiing on a pitch and indeed you would be if you were say... stuck in the same posture motionless on a grassy slope but it doesn't work like that moving on a slippery surface.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thornyhill,
Quote:
You lean over a bit or a lot, keep a good form and good balance and the skis steer themselves.
OK, I'm out on a limb here as obviously I am the novice, but I thought this only worked for carved turns. I thought if you wanted to do something like a skidded turn then you would need to do a certain amount of steering with the feet.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sat 18-05-13 9:31; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thornyhill wrote:
Megamum wrote:
and start to steer the skis around the turn
You shouldn't be steering the skis. You lean over a bit or a lot, keep a good form and good balance and the skis steer themselves.
With respect...that is the worst piece of advise i've ever heard regarding skiing... of course you steer your skis. Why do you think we pivot and increase or decrease pressure or speed? We steer our skis where they need to be... we don't just let the ski do it for us and rely on the radius of the ski to turn.
As a mind set for megamum... I would suggest she starts thinking of skiing as a sport and gets really active. With respect, it looks like she's just going for a trip looking for shoes. Get more aggresive, active and focussed on getting your body facing down the fall line and turning with your lower body. Get your arms up and aggressive... think riding a moto x bike.
There are some fantastic drills that will enhance your seperation, angulation and lateral movements. Forget bobbing up and down... it's about getting 'out' and not 'up'.
Outside boot touch.
Side slipping
Airplane turns
Hockey stops
Rollerblade turns
etc,etc...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
spud, In actual fact I hate shopping for shoes as I have so many problems finding a pair that fits. FWIW I know I have an absolutely demon side-slip, and I can hockey stop (better on one side than the other, but I have to under my 'chicken' speed)!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Page 6!! WOW...even I would doubt my undisputed status as The best skier on this forum
Megamum, As stated before by somebody, there's a risk of thinking too much which may lead to paralysis by analysis. Needless to say, all the good advice is well-meaning and useful, but you ought to put some into practice.
I think you should take note the sage advice of this famous eastern mystic poet for your next learning phase.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
kitenski wrote:
I do seriously think that you should just stop reading bend ze knees Megamum, it fills your head with way too technical stuff, some good advice, some bad advice and everything in between.
Bottom line, I cannot see how reading bzk will improve your skiing. I find the whole forum very confusing, so just don't read it for technical skiing tips or techniques.
regards,
Greg
What I said earlier
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 24-05-13 22:05; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kitenski, I agree, I think MM should put 'Bend ze Knees' on ignore, and do something else.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum, ALQ said...........
Quote:
Megamum, As stated before by somebody, there's a risk of thinking too much which may lead to paralysis by analysis. Needless to say, all the good advice is well-meaning and useful, but you ought to put some into practice.
foxtrotzulu, said..............
Quote:
I am not sure what THE answer is, but sloe gin is a pretty good answer to most things.
At the risk of sounding "dualistic", don't ski with your "mind", thinking too much about what you do inhibits performance. You're "thinking" about what to "do", rather than "doing" what you want to "do".
You appear too "stiff" because of this. There's no real absorbtion/anticipation/preparation for your turns. The skis become "swung" around rather than set on edge/pressured/held to cut into the snow and "carve" the turn. You are more than good enough a skier to take to the fall-line and pick up a tad more pace when you ski. This would help.
Silly little practices are simply that. Don't rely on them alone to help you develop finer skills. Watch how good skiers ski. Ask yourself what are they doing well that you can add to what you do. But most of all, enjoy what you do rather than over-analyse what you do.
AND........... do you perceive skiers in front of you as an obstruction/problem rather than naturally spot the solution to get past any pesky skiers in your way?
(That'll be £50 please.............. )
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 18-05-13 11:19; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Kenny, has a pointMegamum, .........."but that someone was our rob@rar so I'm inclined to think I am, but I don't think it's excessively in the back seat, although its clearly something that needs fixing...", but not really pointed out to you during instruction?
That beggars the question about the effectiveness of the instruction you've had that leaves you a tad disappointed. (Kenny's point, and mine!!)
After all it is free
After all it is free
gatecrasher wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Megamum wrote:
Kenny, I suspect you are correct, as rob@rar also said I was in the back seat. I guess that it is correct at some point in the turn, but as I am notably 'static' then of course I won't be correct all the way around the turn just as you say. Maybe it will correct itself as I get the weight transferred to the new outside ski a bit earlier and start to steer the skis around the turn as in order to do that I imagine I will have to bring the weight forward earlier. I'll do some more practicing on the Skia device as well which might help.
My last word I promise. Looking at the Skia device it seems you have to to keep your center of mass over your feet (which you already do just fine when you ski which IMHO is the issue). When skiing often the center of mass needs to be ahead of the feet and this does not feel natural at all, lordy no. As far as I can tell on the Skia you would fall flat on your face if you, for example, pulled your feet back or extended forward and that's the kind of negative reinforcement we don't need .
The skia is designed to teach you by proprioception to keep your body centered through the middle of the feet, this doesn't change when you're skiing, your COG should always stay through the center of your feet perpendicular to whatever pitch of slope you are on, "stay centered" it might look like you are more forward skiing on a pitch and indeed you would be if you were say... stuck in the same posture motionless on a grassy slope but it doesn't work like that moving on a slippery surface.
So how do you stay perpendicular to the slope when skiing? When performing those movements on a Skia will I fall flat on my face (or back bottom)? Nothing wrong with using a balance board type thing but it isn't a skiing simulator. IMHO.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
spud, kitenski, You are both entirely correct. I know what I mean, but it doesn't really read that way.
.........
Have now been trying to explain what I actually did mean, but it still doesn't mean what I mean I suspect that your interpretation of 'steering your skis' is different to mine.
edit -
skimastaaah wrote:
The skis become "swung" around rather than set on edge/pressured/held to cut into the snow and "carve" the turn.
'swung' is a much better term to describe what I was referring to as steering. Tends to happen one ski at a time.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 18-05-13 22:06; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Kenny, the answer is that the idea is total dangly bits. Even if you subscribed to only wanting your weight over one place the entire time, the actual slope angle depends on the ski angle to the fall line so is constantly varying. In any case in most skiing you want to do something other than just let the ski track through the snow and that requires balance adjustment in order to weight the ski differently amongst other ways of adjusting the forces applied.
If you kept your body perpendicular to the slope the entire time you'd fall over on the first turn. If you genuinely wanted your CoM over the center of your ski when going down a slope you'd be very backseat.
Anywho it's also impossible for your center of mass to be anything other than perpendicular to the slope as it's a point in space versus a line, plane or surface so it's alway possible to connect it to some normal from the slope representation based on the appropriate equation.
What's actually interesting is the resolution of forces on the ski contact area and the relationship with body position. That's actually what leads to the skier staying upright and changing direction. It's also completely useless for teaching people to ski.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Essentially what people are trying to describe is that the resultant forces always feel like you are standing on the skis. The sensation that we normally associate with gravity is acting through our feet still.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Kenny, meh, Ok I give in! Life's too short....
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If you need additional speed to achieve 'it', as many are prescribing, then you and they are way off in my opinion.
Speed on snow is not the issue, speed of balancing and speed of pivotting are the keys IMHO.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
Speed on snow is not the issue, speed of balancing and speed of pivotting are the keys IMHO.
It's a joy to watch a ski instructor skiing beautifully, beautifully slowly, 110% control, but still doing beautifully shaped turns. Any idiot can go fast and feel cleverl
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
skimastaaah wrote:
You're "thinking" about what to "do", rather than "doing" what you want to "do".
You appear too "stiff" because of this. There's no real absorbtion/anticipation/preparation for your turns.
That's what strikes me when I look at the video. I'm no ski instructor but on the video you skiing like some pre-programmed robots! It seems to me you were thinking too much!
Megamum wrote:
as I am notably 'static' then of course I won't be correct all the way around the turn just as you say.
As someone else mentioned earlier, you should DANCE on the snow! Think less about what each leg is doing. That's really not that important. You want your body to be DYNAMICALLY balanced on the skis at all stage of the turn. The legs just need to do whatever necessary to keep you in balance. Once you find your dynamic balance, then you may go into more fine tuning of what the legs do to achieve the same result more efficiently.
I spend YEARS in your stage, copying all the legs movement without understanding what I trying to achieve: dynamic balance while sliding about on uneven surface! Skiing is in my opionion all about balance, especially dynamic balance when the slope turns more verticle and becomes uneven. All those drills and movements are only building blocks or "tricks" one can employ at will to suit the situation in achieving that balance.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum, 10 hours is not actually that much. You have improved, and you will improve some more with further coaching.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, You know how when you canter a horse you let your hips and legs counter the animals movements to keep you nice and stable over it? How relaxed, compliant and yet responsive you have to be? . . . It's just the same with skiing. So . . . if you want to improve your skiing, forget about it for the Summer and go learn to Salsa or Tango and learn to relax with movement and stop trying to force your body to do things it's not yet ready to accept.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque, The trouble is that I am already an incredibly enthusiastic dancer. I think the body is fine, it's the mind might have other ideas (as everyone has noted) The mind craves control and accuracy (which is why I studied chemistry and not biology), the body couldn't care two hoots about what it is doing. FWIW I am the same when I dance - every beat counts. When I ride a horse, the horse has to be in control - I'll gallop a horse as fast as I like providing I've got control of the stop/go. The moment any horse grabs the bit, or decides to do a tango on the spot when a strange dog races down a garden path, then I fall apart until I have regained the control. If you think my body won't accept things now, then what needs to happen that it will ever accept me skiing? No, I'm sure it is the mind that has the problem.
laundryman, OK, maybe 10 hours isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but it felt a lot and probably doubled in three days the combined total that I'd had previously
As for being banned from BZK, I've never seen anyone else told this
Megamum, someone said earlier to take some of the advice you are given; I would say just pick one thing - at the moment you don't seem to take any of it (pole plant!!!) but constantly over analyse what you "should" be doing, hence the suggestion not to frequent BZK (no-one said "banned") - there's just too much info to take in and do anything with. If you were skiing with me I'd be happy to shout "plant" or "turn" at you in a rhythmic fashion to remind you to do it, but you can do that yourself
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Megamum, ^what ironsidexx said. Good advice. Take it. You can put the forum on ignore for a while, head off to Hemel to practice (maybe book a session with Inside out?). and come back to it when you've sorted pole planting and then you can start with something else.
Megamum, this book is a bit 'gushy American' but it is very appropriate for your situation and should help a lot. Read it!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, now this thread has taken on a life of its own you need to make a decision - whether you're going to keep it alive by constantly returning and picking the scabs or counter arguing around every suggestion (of which there are good, bad and irrelevant) or accept that there's a way forward and forget about the noise herein. It's your choice and admittedly the former is inevitably tempting while there isn't much you can do in terms of practice but no-one ever got to be accomplished in a physical activity purely by thinking about random advice on the internet.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Megamum,
Quote:
OK, maybe 10 hours isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but it felt a lot and probably doubled in three days the combined total that I'd had previously
^^^ If you've been skiing for a few years then this really is not very much instruction at all. You ski nicely in control but there are a number of core skills which still need further development to help you become more like the skier you aspire to be. As others have said, don't be too hard on yourself. You would still benefit from some more instruction (whether it is here in the UK or on your next hols in the Alps) with an instructor who can explain things to you as you work through tasks/drills/exercises. Whilst the best improvement in learning a skill comes from people tuning into the feeling of what their body is doing, some people do benefit from a bit more explanation of things at times. Also, practice is paramount!
I usually don't post on the BZK threads as I think it is really easy to confuse people over the Internet! However, I would agree with the posters who identified balance as a key issue here. It looks like you're continually balanced on your heels and from being stuck in this position it is really difficult to get more movement and performance into your skiing. This is something (along with some of the other core skiing skills) that could be easily worked on and developed here at one of the snowdomes freeing you up to have more FUN on the real slopes on your next holiday
You might think it is your head/mind preventing you from doing something but it could also be a result of your body stuggling to stay in balance because of equipment set up for instance. Either way, an instructor could help identify whether this is the case and also help you to focus more on feeling things rather than thinking about it all too much.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Not directly skiing related but I find the stronger and fitter I am, the better I ski. If you improve your fitness over the summer you'll probably find it easier to improve your skiing come winter.
ETA - not that I'm saying you, Megamum, aren't fit. It was a generic 'you', more of a 'me' really.
Megamum, this book is a bit 'gushy American' but it is very appropriate for your situation and should help a lot. Read it!
Yup................. Inner Skiing, goes off on "USA Airhead" psycho-babble, but............. has some gems of pointers regarding the over preparation and over analysis of skiing skills, rather than natural (zen-state-of-) being the skier. You gets what you wants from it.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. It's that fundamental, honest.
)...
.
In actual fact I hate shopping for shoes as I have so many problems finding a pair that fits. FWIW I know I have an absolutely demon side-slip, and I can hockey stop (better on one side than the other, but I have to under my 'chicken' speed)!
)
my comment was not for 
