Is this realistic ? I've been reading the reviews on the 'Tecnica Cochise 130 Pro' and they seem a tempting proposition for my next pair of boots.
Realistically the majority of my skiing is lift served, and I hope to get back to a bit of race & technical training this year, although I've never bothered with stiff race boots. That said touring beckons and I have Fritschi \ Marker binding set-ups for this.
So, better to focus on getting a good fit in Alpine boots and just use them, (or maybe some cheap or s/h touring boots) or are a pair of Cochise's a realistic proposition? If so are there any alternatives for when they don't fit
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are loads of alternatives these days. It seems to be the fastest growing sector of the market. They won't be cheap mind! Just make sure they're compatible with all the bindings you want to use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_boots
All of our touring gang use the same boots for downhill - be they rubber-soled alpine boots or pukka touring boots. For that matter, we use the same skis and bindings too!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Do you want well fitted touring boots or blisters?
The K2 Pinnacle sounds like another choice that would suit you as well.
It all depends on how demanding/serious the racing aspect of it is really going to be but this years and this coming years boots are lightyears ahead of my first pair of stiff touring boots. The whole freeride/"backcountry" crossover is doing wonders.
FWIW I ski all the time on Dynafits using Dynafit Mercurys and don't feel at all let down by them but my only real piste skiing is pootling about with my girlfriend.
Comfy, pain free boots have always been high in my priorities
I'm not a racer but do enjoy GS gate training from time to time but would want something that is OK for piste performance. I've tended to ski mid range boots (Salomon X-Wave \ Impact etc) so assuming the new touring stuff isn't ultra soft suspect it might me OK.
The crux as altis suggests will be getting something that is OK for both Alpine & Touring bindings.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Then the short answer is that yes boots like the Cochise are what you're looking for. The K2 Pinnacle more so because it has a normal DIN sole with tech fittings. Downside is that it seems quite heavy in comparison. If they fit I'd ditch the Fritischi and Marker bindings and invest in Dynafit instead. It makes touring life a lot more pleasant in the long run particularly in heavier boots.
AndAnotherThing.., I've been using the Dynafit Zzeus for a while and I don't tour at all. Best of all, they come with both touring/Vibram soles and alpine soles. Undo a couple of screws and you can switch easily. The alpine soles fit in Fritschi bindings but the touring soles don't fit in alpine bindings
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
meh wrote:
...I'd ditch the Fritischi and Marker bindings and invest in Dynafit instead. It makes touring life a lot more pleasant in the long run particularly in heavier boots.
+1
Lightweight and plenty strong & durable enough for groomed and off groomed skiing in and out of the resort boundary.
And if you go Dynafit binding then Dynafit boot is the logical companion.
That is if your foot fits the last - it's narrow.
PM me if you need more info.
After all it is free
After all it is free
But if I go Dynafit boots then I assume that jumping on to my ski's with normal DIN bindings will be a no no ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
AndAnotherThing.., CH2O may pass by with his own particularly informed opinion but the Scarpa Maestrale RS and the Dynafit Mercury both fit "all" types of bindings without fiddling with different soles.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
under a new name, you can jam them in most bindings but not without compromising their release. A lot of people file down the soles to make them work with bindings that don't allow the requisite adjustment and/or don't have a sliding AFD.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Can someone let me know when these new wonderboots get up to the width and fit of something like the Head Vector (103mm reference shell IIRC) so I don't waste time wondering?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
First post on here and I was also considering a new pair of boots - conclusion
Lets hope it makes me ski half as good as Chris D!!!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mike Pow wrote:
meh wrote:
...I'd ditch the Fritischi and Marker bindings and invest in Dynafit instead. It makes touring life a lot more pleasant in the long run particularly in heavier boots.
+1
Lightweight and plenty strong & durable enough for groomed and off groomed skiing in and out of the resort boundary.
And if you go Dynafit binding then Dynafit boot is the logical companion.
That is if your foot fits the last - it's narrow.
PM me if you need more info.
+1 for the Cochise. However the Dynafit Vulcan/Mercury freeride/touring boots have a 102mm last width. They're laterally very stiff with genuine 130/120 forward flex (respectively) which can be softened for touring or skiing powder by removing the tongue. Superb touring mode. Weight are 1590/1600g per boot respectively. Haven't got alpine din soles but no problem in a Duke/Baron/Fritschi. With the new Marker Lord binding you could run gates in these boots. I'm currently playing with the new Dynafit Beast 16 binding & I reckon you'd having no problem running gates on them & you'd get excellent power transmission & feel from them with the metal-to-metal boot/binding interface = one boot & one binding for touring through to gates.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
spyderjon, So you reckon Dynafit Vulcan/Mercury ?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
AndAnotherThing.. wrote:
spyderjon, So you reckon Dynafit Vulcan/Mercury ?
Like all boots it's all down to fit but here's my 2c:
I've got the Cochise 120's (100mm last) which are 2180g each with the tech soles fitted. The same boot is also available in a 130 flex. The Cochise are basically a lighter weight (due to the plastic used) alpine performance boot with a pretty good walk/tour mode & tech insert soles added to make it a 'single boot solution'. For the weight weenies the 130 is also available in a Pro Light version (98mm last) which, with it's lighter lining & top buckle missing, brings it in on nigh on the same weight as the Vulcan/Mercury. The Cochise size long - the 26 mondo has a 310mm BSL & gives me 15-17mm shell gap versus my old 307mm/26 Atomic M-Tech110's with a 10-12mm gap & which weighed 2580g each. I don't think the flex rating on the Cochise's are true 120/130's, more like 110/120's respectively as my Cochise feel the same flex as my Atomics. I'd say the Cochise is a medium volume fit with a deep/narrow heel pocket which suits me very well.
The Vulcan/Mercury come from the other direction in that they started with a pucka touring boot & designed in the high level alpine performance to get to their 'single boot solution'. I've only shell tested the Vulcan & it's very stiff (even with the tongue removed) & too stiff for me. I'm keen on saving another 580g per boot so I've got a pair of size 26 Mercury's on order as I don't need the 130 flex of the Vulcan & they're waaaay less money than the Vulcan but the same weight. The Vulcan/Mercury boot weights I qouted above are for a 27 mondo so my 26's should be a tad less.
From my few minutes in the Vulcans & my mates feedback on his Mercury's they apper to have an accurate flex rating. The buckles/straps are more of a faff to adjust than the Cochise but that'll come with practice just like weird combined top buckle/power strap on the Cochise which I first thought was pants but now think it's great. Fit on the Vulcan/Mercury is very similar to the regular Cochise but with possibly even a tighter heel & maybe slightly less volume. I thought about just getting the Pro Light Cochise but the 98mm last is too narrow for me. The Vulcan/Mercury are very short overall for their size as they've trimmed off a few mm in length off both the toe & heel lugs so the 26 mondo has a BSL of just 294mm but still gives me a 15mm shell gap. Note that this could cause a possible binding mounting problem as if you've got bindings mounted for a regular boot sole length then you might not have the heel length adjustment to fit the Dyna boot. I've currently got skis & bindings waited to be mounted but I don't want to drill the skis until I'm sure the Mercury's will work for me.
There's also one slight extra advantage to having a Dynafit boot over other tech boots in that the little 'Quick Step' lead-in groove in the toe inserts really does work compared to a non Dynafit made insert.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 10-05-13 17:05; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
spyderjon, Cheers for that. It looks like it could be game on then.
I don't want a race stiffness boot (I currently ski a salomon 110 flex which seems about right) so depending on the fit any of those could do the job but the lighter weight options would be better for easyjet
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
FWIW, I don't find the Mercury's buckles at all a faff, nor getting the tongue in and out for touring I stick them in the buckle holding doohickeys at the start of the day and then just do them up or undo them depending. I've skied well over 40 days on them this season. Very straightforward and you can't set off downhill in walk mode.
I could actually knock off the very front buckle on the toe as well as I rarely bother doing it up as the fit without it is fine.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
AndAnotherThing.. wrote:
spyderjon, Cheers for that. It looks like it could be game on then.
I don't want a race stiffness boot (I currently ski a salomon 110 flex which seems about right) so depending on the fit any of those could do the job but the lighter weight options would be better for easyjet
I reckon the 120 Cochise or the 120 Mercury (with the option of removing the tongue) would be bang on for flex then.
By next season, compared to a couple of seasons ago my boot/ski/binding combo will be 1576g per foot lighter (over 3.1kg total ) & the new gear is better performing in every respect & has a walk/tour mode that I didn't have before. The addition of skins only reduces that gain by 600g for the two so I'm still 2.5kg better off). That weight saving is a helluva lot of energy saved during the up'n'down & a lot of luggage allowance gained. Plus I'm 15kg lighter now as well
I've really been enjoying my Cochise 120's this season. The vast majority of my skiing has been lift served, maybe 15-20 days involving some touring (mostly not so much, longest was a little over 1000m vert). Downhill, BIG improvement over my old 90 flex worn out Salomon alpine boots, uphill not the lightest (but not too bad), good enough walk mode, dynafit compatible (DIN soles also available). I've never felt like I needed anything stiffer, but I'm only about 73kg. Great boots, basically no compromise on the down, seem pretty good to me on the up (but I've never used a 'full' touring boot), maybe not the best choice if regularly skinning much more 1000m vert. The ratchet-strap-buckle thing is great, can really crank 'em up.
Tried the Factor 130, didn't fit me so well. Comparable weight and walk mode to the Cochise, though it does have some sort of fancy tongue-tightening system. Other than fit, I think there's little to choose between them.
Vulcan's are stiff as (even in a warm shop), waaaaaay more than I need, and a bit of a ball-ache to get into.
I really like the Maestrale RS, great walk mode (felt like slippers), didn't fit my feet so well (really tight over the instep). Apparently skis well 'for a three-piece Cabrio-style boot," but never having skied such a boot I have no idea how much of a recommendation that is. The way the tongue opens/you get into the boots is different form 'normal,' but actually really quick and efficient. If I keep on spending more time touring each season, I can see something like this being my next set of boots. Intrigued about Scarpa's new boot for next winter.
As far as I understand, Vulcans/Mercuries and Maestrales only work in touring bindings. Cochise/BD Factor have changeable soles for either DIN or touring (the tech AT sole also works in Markers/Fritschis/etc).
CH2O was raving about the new K2 Pinnacle 130 boots, apparently they're excellent. Personally I've never felt like I needed more boot than the Cochise, but if you're going to be race training something like this (or the Cochise 130, BD Factor, etc) may work better.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
clarky999 wrote:
I really like the Maestrale RS, great walk mode (felt like slippers), didn't fit my feet so well (really tight over the instep). Apparently skis well 'for a three-piece Cabrio-style boot," but never having skied such a boot I have no idea how much of a recommendation that is. The way the tongue opens/you get into the boots is different form 'normal,' but actually really quick and efficient.
Yep, I realise now that the best pair of boots are ones you're not even aware you're wearing but also never feel like a weak link between your legs and your skis. The Maestrale RS's didn't feel like that for the first couple of days though as despite feeling completely comfy in the shop, I thought I'd made a mistake as they were crippling my arches (and spoiled a couple of afternoons of skiing) until day 3 when I put in the footbeds made for my running shoes about 15 years ago. They instantly took away the hurt, so I got the liners moulded, the slipper-like feel came back and after some long skins, rock clambers and axe/crampon climbs the initial grief is all forgiven. The downhill performance totally eclipses my old Scarpa Spirits and they're easily driving a longer, wider ski that used to be unwieldy. The side flipping tongue (which acts a bit like an upside down gullwing car door) felt like a faff to start with but once you're used to how to flip them over, getting in/out of the boots is ridiculously easy compared to a 'conventional' tongue. I'm a happy bunny with mine.
AndAnotherThing.., CH2O may pass by with his own particularly informed opinion but the Scarpa Maestrale RS and the Dynafit Mercury both fit "all" types of bindings without fiddling with different soles.
I have the RS's and can confirm they are great, light, stiff I'd say around 110/120, and good to walk or skin in. I use them on and off piste plus touring. Personally I would not use them in alpine binding.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
CH2O may pass by with his own particularly informed opinion but the Scarpa Maestrale RS and the Dynafit Mercury both fit "all" types of bindings without fiddling with different soles.
The above is not true. The Maestrale & the Vulcan/Mercury are not compatible alpine din complient so won't fit it in stanadard alpine bindings. They can however be used in alpine touring bindings that have with sufficient toe height adjustment to accomodate a rockered AT sole, ie all the Fritschi's & the Duke/Baron/Tour's. They won't fit in to the Guardian/Tracker/Adrenalin. And they will fit the new Marker Lord which is out next season.
After all it is free
After all it is free
spyderjon, most of AT boots will somehow fit in alpine bindings, but question is, if it's advisable to do this for real skiing. I have Dalbello Virus Tour boots as work boots, and they fit into race binding, but probably I should rather say, I can stuff them into race bindings. And personally, I wouldn't go real skiing with that. Well I wouldn't want to go real on-piste skiing with these boots anyway, no matter what binding
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
primoz, agreed. I should've said that most won't fit in to std alpine bindings & still release test correctly, certainly without any sole grinding. The shortened toe/heel lugs on the Vulcan/Mercury/One would make for a pretty dodgy binding interface on a regular alpine binding - the alpine touring bindings are dimensioned differently in this respect & are therfore ok.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Has anyone put a foot in the Freedom or the Pinnacle yet? I'm replacing my boots this year and am looking for something very upright (massive calves) and a one boot solution owing to no longer living in the Alps. These two look like the standout candidates and I'm curious about the fit. As usual, I'm looking at an internet purchase followed by a trip to Bicester.
Yes, I know it is May but my mind is wandering.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
spyderjon, i am not convinced that "dimensioned" is a word in the english language...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
under a new name wrote:
spyderjon, i am not convinced that "dimensioned" is a word in the english language...
Ah, but I'm a scouser
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
gorilla, I wouldn't worry too much about calf size as CEM has a special jig especially for enlarging the rear of the cuffs which should be good as long as the boot you choose doesn't have the tour mode mechanism going too high up the rear of the cuff. Colin usually has to enlarge the rear of the cuffs for me but removing the stock velcro affixed spoiler on my Cochises did the trick for me as well as making the boot more upright.
I'm not sure if there's an industry standard method for measuring forward lean so I wouldn't trust too much what the manufacturers say - for example the Garmont (now Scott) Delerium is quoted as being a lot more upright than my Cochises but when aligned side by side I couldn't tell the difference between them. And with tech bindings & non rail mounted alpine bindings a more upright stance can always achieved by shimming up the toe bindings.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Winter's coming, go ride a bike, come back in September.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CH2O, New models on the way ?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Automated reply, SOLEbootlab is now closed for the summer, please repost your questions in September when we can be arsed to think; talk, touch, taste and tickle feet!
Thankyou for your understanding, enjoy the beach.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
spyderjon, ah. My misunderstanding.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
enjoy the beach
What be that?
spyderjon, cheers - much appreciated. I've had real problems with too much forward lean + excessive calves maxing out the available range of ankle motion I have. One of the many things wrong with my skiing. I suspect I'll return to this one once the diving season is nearing its end.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) & the new gear is better performing in every respect & has a walk/tour mode that I didn't have before. The addition of skins only reduces that gain by 600g for the two so I'm still 2.5kg better off). That weight saving is a helluva lot of energy saved during the up'n'down & a lot of luggage allowance gained. Plus I'm 15kg lighter now as well 
(even in a warm shop), waaaaaay more than I need, and a bit of a ball-ache to get into.
