Piste Long
Perform cleanly carved turns on a blue piste.
Show a variety of turn radii.
Use effective posture and balance.
Piste Short
Perform grippy, (from the fall line), round, symmetrical, short turns, in various corridors on a
blue or easy red piste.
Show the ability to maintain a constant speed.
Use effective posture and balance.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski, rjs,
Is correct whatever the criteria the need to pressure the turn high in the arc and use the front of the ski in the slower first phase of the turn will be needed for BASI2 this will also help shoulder rotation.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 17-12-12 18:27; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pretty much what Rupert Goldring was explaining/coaching (attempting to get us doing) on one of the sessions at last years PSB.
kitenski, sorry to hear that you didn't pass the L2.
If it is any consolation (and I appreciate it might not be) your shorts video skiing, from a general skiing point of view, are miles and away better than how you looked in Japan earlier this year.
I don't think you have necessarily wasted money on the course, as you look like a much better skier for it.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
kitenski, Sounds reasonable, if you are on an all-round ski you won't be able to carve all of a short radius turn, future clients will probably be using something similar.
I would have a play on your Storm thingies if you still have them, you will be able to do plenty of "long" turns in a fairly small space and at low speed. Maybe go back to basics and try some carved snowplow turns, you can then experiment with pressuring the outside ski early in the turn but with a totally stable stance.
Huckacliff duckabranch, if you go onto youtube, BASI have a series of video's showing the level that would be expected and states what the assessment criteria is at each level.
I have issues with the BASI videos in that all of the demonstrations of each level are done by BASI Trainers. What would be more useful would be here's the level, these skiers passed, these failed, using real course candidates. A BASI Trainer skiing a Parallel turn to L2 standard is still going to look like a Trainer doing it.
I have to agree and I dont think toning down to attempt to look like a particular level can be easy, what I found useful was to give me a rough idea what I would be expected to do and on what slope/size of bumps etc.
If I could get copies of my videos from the same course as Kitenski last year we could compare although they still would not show what the correct level to pass would be as they were all taken over week 1 and the start of week 2 but I suppose it would show where it is possible to progress from to pass over the course.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rjs wrote:
kitenski, Sounds reasonable, if you are on an all-round ski you won't be able to carve all of a short radius turn, future clients will probably be using something similar.
.
I'm assuming kitenski did the L2 on Titans, I can't think of a better ski in which to use. It should do all that is required and then some.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Spyderman wrote:
rjs wrote:
kitenski, Sounds reasonable, if you are on an all-round ski you won't be able to carve all of a short radius turn, future clients will probably be using something similar.
.
I'm assuming kitenski did the L2 on Titans, I can't think of a better ski in which to use. It should do all that is required and then some.
Yup titans were used for everything!!
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Quote:
I agree that some good skiers don't carve but don't agree that some good carvers can't ski. I see bad carvers who can't ski but never any good carvers who can't ski.
All good skiers will be able to carve, if asked and on appropriate terrain. It may be that those good skiers choose to ski gnarly bumps, steeps and deeps most of the time, and so you don't see them carving very often!
kitenski, when I did my L2 10 years ago (eek!), a drill that was given to those who were struggling to carve, was to roll from edge to edge when you're skiing along nearly flat cat tracks. It gets you used to the feeling of being on your edges throughout the whole turn, without the fear of speed that tells you to skid the ski.
Can you carve the ski when doing J turns? When I'm teaching a group to carve I start them in a traverse, then J turns. Admittedly it is much easier to teach someone in their 3rd or 4th week of skiing, than someone who'se been skidding for 20 years!
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
beanie1, yup I can do j turns, edge rolls and I'd have passed if javelin turns down a blue counted
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Where do you go wrong? Initiating the turn?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
beanie1, the summary at the end was not enough edge angle. Not had the written report yet. I did sometimes rotate the feet at initiation but I think I'd sorted that by the last day.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski, from what I've seen the pivot at the start of the turn (sometimes in longs and in shorts) is the cause of the problem, the insufficient edge angle is a symptom. You don't get your stable platform early in the turn because of the pivot, so you don't have anything to stand on until the fall line at the earliest. As a result you don't get the time to build up a progressively bigger edge angle, especially in longs where you are busy trying to control speed and turn shape on a ski which is has initially been pushed sideways. Sort out your movement at the start of the turn and I think everything else will fall in to place.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
written report says (why don't BASI create PDFs you can cut n paste from???) :
Piste Longs. You have worked very hard here and made good improvement. Focus on 2 clean lines in the snow at all times with a wide stance to help you achieve greater edge angles. Don't allow your weight to fall onto the inside ski. One ski carving is a good drill for you
Piste Short. Great improvement when you achieve a good speed and line. Remember to maintain a hip width stance and stay centered. Continue to gain more performance from the ski (deflection) by pedaling.
so the things I am going to work on in Jan when skiing some easy blues in San Cassiano are:
Stand on it early (the new outside ski)
Tilt
Patience
Hips (for the angles)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rob@rar wrote:
kitenski, from what I've seen the pivot at the start of the turn (sometimes in longs and in shorts) is the cause of the problem, the insufficient edge angle is a symptom. You don't get your stable platform early in the turn because of the pivot, so you don't have anything to stand on until the fall line at the earliest. As a result you don't get the time to build up a progressively bigger edge angle, especially in longs where you are busy trying to control speed and turn shape on a ski which is has initially been pushed sideways. Sort out your movement at the start of the turn and I think everything else will fall in to place.
+1
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Focus your training on the transition
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Continue to gain more performance from the ski (deflection) by pedaling.
Can someone put this into non-BASI speak please?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski wrote:
Piste Longs. You have worked very hard here and made good improvement. Focus on 2 clean lines in the snow at all times with a wide stance to help you achieve greater edge angles. Don't allow your weight to fall onto the inside ski. One ski carving is a good drill for you
Piste Short. Great improvement when you achieve a good speed and line. Remember to maintain a hip width stance and stay centered. Continue to gain more performance from the ski (deflection) by pedaling.
It is me or is this not really the most useful of feedback?
Thank you, the BASI manuals were written by George Orwell on Mogadon.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski, No worries.. it's a good read and interesting stuff. If I get to BASI 2 then it'd good to see what sort of things I have in store.
After all it is free
After all it is free
kitenski, yep definitely pedal then angulate on that green.
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skimottaret, how would you say he should focus on the transition?
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kitenski wrote:
so the things I am going to work on in Jan when skiing some easy blues in San Cassiano are:
1. Stand on it early (the new outside ski)
2. Tilt
3. Patience
4. Hips (for the angles)
To achieve your objectives you must understand how you are going to achieve them
1. How early? Where in the turn? How are you going to 'stand on it'
2. Tilt what? The ski ? How ?
3. Patience - Yes. i am sure your trainer mentioned 'flow'. You are too eager to get from one turn to the next.
4. Hips (for the angles). Remember everything must come from your feet. If you simply 'dump' your hips inside the turn this will not increase edge angles.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
kitenski, I'm slightly confused - I agree with all of what Huckacliff duckabranch said but also you weren't planting and you weren't tracking the fall line, more traversing. I don't know about you, but both those help me to carve. I also get greater rise and fall on transition which I find also helps. Were all these 'forbidden' for the test? If so that seems a little unfair.
There's a technique thats taught which teaches you to shift your hips over then counciously get your both ankles to 'follow' your hips i.e. two movements but very close together. I think at speed its pretty seamless but it might help when you are practicing slowly. It gets you to transition to edge with both feet at the same time which more or less forces you to carve.
Apropos of nothing, I'm not keen on dryski slopes - part of why I ski is to get into the mountains where I feel at home. Removng that part of it would kill skiing a bit for me
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
RattytheSnowRat, not sure what you mean by 'tracking the fall line' or 'planting'?? I posted the criteria needed for longs back in this thread.also not sure what the ref to dry slopes means?? Lastly what rise and fall do you mean?? Vertical moment isn't good, in basi world, lateral is.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski, I would focus on a strong pole plant in the right place and time; most revalidations have a section on this very important and sometimes forgotten vital aid to get the basic building blocks in place for curving. (I did mean curving) This one can practice on plastic or indoors.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I learnt very quickly not to just dump the hips in when learning, all it does is put you straight on the inside ski if you haven't pressured the outside ski first! Pressure and reduction on opposing skis at the start of the turn automatically starts the move of the knees and hips, once the outside ski grips you can balance against it, if you lean in before this or too much its over, unless you are proficient enough to anticipate it, but this comes with carving mileage, so at slow speeds you have to angulate and balance "over" the outside ski.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Cynic, I took the pole plant out to try and see if it was that as the trigger for the pivot!!
stewart woodward, Ok, let's take a stab at this as I think if I can get this right with some assistance I then have something to go practise....
1. How early? Where in the turn? How are you going to 'stand on it'
at the end of one turn, depending on speed and radius of turn, it could be in various places on the hill, even coming back up the hill slightly as a way of controlling speed. I will then laterally move forward and across the ski to put weight onto the outside ski only. a good test/drill is if I can lift the new uphill ski. Another drill is plough parallel, if the weight isn't on the new outside ski the inside ski won't smoothly track to parallel.
2. Tilt what? The ski ? How ?
Tilt the ski(s), start the tilt with the ankles, as the pressures increase I may/will need to move laterally from the hips, being careful not to simply lean the whole body in a straight line.
3. Patience - Yes. i am sure your trainer mentioned 'flow'. You are too eager to get from one turn to the next.
4. Hips (for the angles). Remember everything must come from your feet. If you simply 'dump' your hips inside the turn this will not increase edge angles.
Yes the trainer and I discussed that this all has to start with the feet.
BTW everybody thanks for all the input!!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
kitenski, What worked for me is to focus on the point when both skis are flat on the snow, is this happening simultaneously or sequentially? Hopefully simultaneous. When i want to initiate a new turn relax the downhill leg to allow the hips to start moving across my feet, at the point when i feel the skis flat on the snow extend what is at present the uphill leg and apply pressure to what will be the new outside ski. Applying pressure before the skis are flat on the snow is wasted effort as you'll be engaging the wrong edge. It took many hours to feel instinctively when the skis are flat on the snow, but as a result it cured my slight A frame and got me onto my edges far earlier in the turn.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
gatecrasher wrote:
clarky999, it means pressure/extend one reduce/soften other, long leg/ short leg.
Thanks, that's 'pedalling,' I take it? What was meant by deflection, the only time I've come across that relating to skiing was deflecting off crud or similar, which is obviously not what you want...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
clarky999, deflection, when the skis move across the fall line with grip, ie imagine you've trying to get the skis from one slalom gate to another that is no lower down the hill, the skis need to move across the hill without loosing any height to make that gate.....
kitenski, thanks. So basically a 'performance' traverse(/extension of carved turn)?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
clarky999, hmm, no traverse really, more a short turn with grip in a narrow corridor (if that makes sense???), think of doing short turns in a corridor the width of a pistebasher track, without much/any skidding, and using the edges for grip....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Loads of info on here but how you decipher it could cause problems,
Ie stand on the uphill ski to change edges, I can't see how standing on an already edged uphill ski will change edges, it just pressures the already engaged edge, then makes changing edges harder,
Pedalling, extending one leg and softing the other still not a direct move to change edges,
I was taught by several respected coaches, the 1st thing to go are the edges themselves, flatten the skis before anything else happens, the new edges in the next turn are then in a position to be pressured high in the turn and before the fall line,
Also what if you need to do a compression turn/cross under? You cannot stand on the uphill ski, both skis need to be in weighted,
You may think I'm talking crap but all this info revolutionised my skiing once I'd ridded myself of all the other ski thoughts
After all it is free
After all it is free
Huckacliff duckabranch wrote:
Pedalling, extending one leg and softing the other still not a direct move to change edges,
Huckacliff duckabranch,
Maybe not a direct move, but a very subtle one that will change and edged inside ski to a flattened "pressured" new outside ski, which is what you need to be able to start edging it.
And you don't even have to be skiing to practice it to see the theory of it...stand on an even surface, take up a ready skiing stance, feet hip width apart, then just press down on one foot and reduce pressure on the other....watch what happens to the knees then the hips, it's very subtle isn't it, but that is all you need to start the process.
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gatecrasher, but you're standing on a flat surface with no outside forces acting against you if doing it in dry land,
Pressing down on one foot and reducing the pressure on the other also puts your body un angulated if not careful leading to using the new inside ski to support ones weight,
And as I said what if you're absorbing a roller or a bump but need to turn? No a chance in the world I'd start extending in that scenario, flatten the skis and absorb still changing edges before the fall line,
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Huckacliff duckabranch, Absorbing a roller is a completely different kind of turn than whatkitenski, is being asked to be able to demonstrate.
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