Better yet ... get out for a day on a good set of boards with someone who has been riding them for a while. Until then, you are unqualified to pass judgement.
I don't have to try eating my own faeces, running around on a busy motorway or putting my arm in a blender and switching it on to know that I have no desire to participate in these activities whatsoever. This also doesn't affect my right to suggest that they are not particularly sensible pastimes and that one's efforts might be better employed in doing something else.
Learn to ski, or don't, I don't care, but posting 'aren't skiboarders good?' videos on a predominantly ski-orientated forum and then getting the hump when people quite rightly point out that your chosen snow-riding vehicle is pants, would seem to me to be a bit daft.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 24-02-10 0:40; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm amazed you can use Nordic poles if alpine ones get in your way.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, surely its a good thing to promote all snow sliding sports. it certainly was when i went through BASI, is it still the same?
oz5000, the site is called snowheads, not skiheads. i take that to mean people who enjoy all snow sports
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
When I was 11 I got a pair of skiboards and used them for 3-4 years. Then I grew up and went back to real skis. My pointers:
-I'd already had a few years on proper kiddy skis with ESF lessons to teach me to snowplough/parallel properly
-Their short length made it very easy for me to learn to carve properly and, I think, taught me a lot about weight distribution
-I wasn't fast enough for the short length to make them particularly unstable/out of control
But as I got older...
-I could only get down blacks/steep ice by going sideways
-I couldn't turn/control my speed/stop very reliably at high speed
-They're very unstable in the air
-They are pants in powder. Whatever anyone says to the contrary, they are only easy in steep powder because they're so inherently rubbish and slow that they control your speed for you. Then, as soon as the powder gets less steep, you sink.
Conclusion: Skiboards are very good fun for people who aren't very good at skiing. Once you get decent, they're very limiting.
(I accept that this may not apply in the park. Not being a park chap myself I can't really comment)
Eddd, you chose to ski, i choose to skiboard. i am never limited at all. as you got older it looks as if your poor ski technique started to show through.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
graeme, is one criteria of becoming a skiboarder a complete and catastrophic sense of humor failure? You all seem the snow activity equivalent of Milwall supporters, the difference being that Milwall supporters genuinely don't care that no one likes them.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Dr John, its not a sense of humour failure. its just bored/sick of seeing the same crap posted.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
graeme wrote:
rob@rar, surely its a good thing to promote all snow sliding sports. it certainly was when i went through BASI, is it still the same?
Indeed it is. As I have said many times, I really don't have a problem with skiboards. My only concern is with people who slide around the mountain with too little control. That concern applies equally to skiers (on planks of any length, fixed heel or not), boarders and anything else that could be invented. In my experience a far higher proportion of people who use blades/skiboards have too little control when compared to people who ski or snowboard. That doesn't mean that everyone who rides a skiboard is out of control, so please don't take that as personal criticism.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
To be honest I am getting bored of seeing the same crap posted from both sides of the argument.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
skiboard316, I have watched them all the way through and I don't see different ways of sliding down the slopes, I mostly see bad habits. If one of the characteristics of skiboards is that because of their short length most turns are quickly pivoted there really should be a speed limit on these things, because a quickly pivoted turn is inherently unstable at speed. That's what I see just about all of the time: bladers/skiboarders travelling too quickly for the style of turn they are making. And that's what I see a lot of in those videos: pivoted transitions, poor edge hold, upper body swinging. I'm sure there are many people who can make a better job of showcasing aspirational riding on skiboards, but I think you've mostly chosen the wrong videos.
Silly question (from a boarder) warning - so is there likewise a difference in the fundamental technique between 'normal' skiing and telemarking ? and if so does the intricate components/movements of telemarking make it 'bad skiing' for the same reasons as the components of blading makes it bad skiing to me they seem like different ways of getting down the mountain on two planks whereby technique differs due to the types of planks being used
Blading does not seem a substitute for skiing, but having watched the videos it is not quite as limited as, perhaps (playing golf with a putter or taking photos with the lense cap on), some suggests
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rayscoops wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
skiboard316, I have watched them all the way through and I don't see different ways of sliding down the slopes, I mostly see bad habits. If one of the characteristics of skiboards is that because of their short length most turns are quickly pivoted there really should be a speed limit on these things, because a quickly pivoted turn is inherently unstable at speed. That's what I see just about all of the time: bladers/skiboarders travelling too quickly for the style of turn they are making. And that's what I see a lot of in those videos: pivoted transitions, poor edge hold, upper body swinging. I'm sure there are many people who can make a better job of showcasing aspirational riding on skiboards, but I think you've mostly chosen the wrong videos.
Silly question (from a boarder) warning - so is there likewise a difference in the fundamental technique between 'normal' skiing and telemarking ?
At the level of the major flaws which were exhibited in most of the video in the OP, I don't think there is a major difference in alpine and telemark technique especially with regard to keeping the upper body stable. I think there are differences in how the skis are steered, but as I've only telemarked for a few hours I'm not really the right person to comment on that. Similarly I've only snowboarded for a few hours but from what I see the more proficient boarders don't swing their shoulders around to steer the board.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar, thats the thing though, some people just want to say that everyone on blades/boards are crap, should be on grown up skis. to me thats just bull, i see people on mountains on all forms of equipment, some good some bad technique, but i would never write off one form of snow sliding because of it. another arguement is that blades/boards are crap in certain conditions, i agree that blades and some boards may not be good in certain conditions, but i can guarantee that there are skiboards out there that will be excellent in all conditions. people just want to jump on skiboards/blades and take the wee wee. most will never have used a blade never mind a good quality skiboard. with regards to technique, there is not a layed down model for what is and is not good skiboard technique, and i very much doubt there will be. we can keep this thread going for years but it gets very boring. i will say this again, to me snowsports are about having fun, this is why i gave up skis and went onto skiboards. i spent years teaching and got very bored with it, skiboards put a smile back on my face and still do. if your having fun on the slopes then why should some dicks slag you off because of it.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar, yes that is right, it is best to turn a board by carving it through its sidecut edge, but if my board was 110 cm instead of 163 cm (blades/skis) and my bindings were not centered then I might well need a different technique to get it to turn and may well rely more on rotation than carving/edge bite. I would consider such a short board as inherently dangerous (perhaps as some consider blades to be in the wrong hands), but I would not consider the technique of rotation to turn it as wrong, just appropriate for the board; in the same way perhaps rotation as part of the method for riding blades is appropriate for such planks ?
How easy is it to telemark between trees in the same manner that you can ride skiboards etc ?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
some people just want to say that everyone on blades/boards are crap,
That's a functuion of experience. In 15 seasons I have yet to see a less than incompetent blader/skiboarder/whatever.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rayscoops, rotation isn't a bad thing. It's one of the fundamental ways to steer, and the vast majority of turns include some element of rotational steering. "Controlling" that rotation by spinning your shoulders is a bad thing, certainly on skis of any length and from what I see on a snowboard as well.
Lizzard, but does that mean your correct or you just have not seen one. why does everyone want to focus on technique, why cant it just be about having fun. is your technique that perfect on skis?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I neither like or dislike skiboarders, but they do strike me as being a loutish bunch on the whole. Some of them are the sort of people that deserve some pity from us, though.
hyweljenkins, and people wonder if snobbery exists on this site
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, agreed rotation is not great technique on a board but can help at times, but if I had a 120 cm board then that is maybe how I would turn it - by rotation or flicking the back end round , which would be bad technique for a board, but not really a bad technique for a midgets board (actually thinking about it maybe I would just rock from edge to edge); I would consider them different animals needing different technique, horses for course really I suppose.
Now, where can I get a wide midget board ? maybe Thomas from Austria can knock me up a RAK version of it
the telemarking looks great
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 24-02-10 13:25; edited 1 time in total
rayscoops, didnt rossignol do a wide midget board?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rayscoops, rossignol did the mini board, not sure about its width though. but surely you would be gay if you used one of them
After all it is free
After all it is free
graeme, no idea, and to be honest I can not really think why i would try one when I could right a bigger board, but I suppose it might be fun for a blast if I was at a small resort, or I was with some learner boarders or people who were slower getting around (children) etc,. but I would not assume that I would use the same technique to ride it as my 163 stiff as old boots board
I am gay enough on a board, never mind a blades equivalent
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
graeme, snobbery exists everywhere. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Even you're a snob.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
graeme wrote:
why does everyone want to focus on technique, why cant it just be about having fun. is your technique that perfect on skis?
Do you only have one choice: fun or technique? Of course not, the two are pretty closely linked. You need to have enough technique to be comfortable on whatever slope you choose to ski, and if you want to have more fun by skiing more challenging terrain and snow conditions you need to ensure you have enough good technique to keep you in control. Some of the skiing in the videos in the OP was not a good foundation for developing better technique.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rayscoops wrote:
- by rotation or flicking the back end round -
Which I assume you should do by steering/rotating with your feet/legs rather than swinging your arms and shoulders?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
graeme, I've said nothing about technique, since I'm not that sort of geek. My points are:
1. I have never seen a competent blader in 15 full seasons. That's a long time.
2. The vast majority of those I have seen have been going way too fast for the level of control they demonstrate. That's rather dangerous.
For these reasons I steer well clear of them at all times, since I have no wish to find myself downhill of one.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
Which I assume you should do by steering/rotating with your feet/legs rather than swinging your arms and shoulders?
a mixture of both actually, with counter rotation too BTW the French snowboard schools teach (well they did for me and I see them still doing so) swinging shoulders around as an easy way to initiate turns because the board (supposedly) will follow the direction your shoulders are pointing.
Would the techniques that are prescribed (under BASI for example) for good skiing work for skiboards, i.e if you were to teach skiboarding would you simply apply and implement the same methods that you use for teaching traditional skiing ? or do you think some hybrid technique be required?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rayscoops wrote:
Would the techniques that are prescribed (under BASI for example) for good skiing work for skiboards, i.e if you were to teach skiboarding would you simply apply and implement the same methods that you use for teaching traditional skiing ? or do you think some hybrid technique be required?
I think some adjustments are probably required but that's no different from the adjustments you'd make if you change category of ski, from slalom to fat for example. I don't think the fundamental techniques for skiboards and other kinds of ski are different, so no need for major changes to how you go about teaching them, IMO. I'd be happy to teach somebody to ski on blades/skiboards. I'm not sure if I would feel the absolute need to be on the same type of skiboard as them or whether I could manage on a pair of slalom skis. An interesting thought...
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Eddd wrote:
Conclusion: Skiboards are very good fun for people who aren't very good at skiing. Once you get decent, they're very limiting.
Maybe I should try blades / skiboards? I'm certainly crap on proper skis
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar, well the idea of a small board got me thinking that, whilst it is the same basic thing as a bigger board, certain board dynamics and boarding techniques that are considered good practice might not necessarily be appropriate for a little one - for example the pressure and consequential forces put through a board in powder is different to those on well packed groomed piste, so much so that the techniques for riding are different (just like skiing maybe?); similarly I would expect a small board to have a different response (to, say the McNab four corner pressure point method of steering a board) in comparison to a bigger board, which might result in the need for a different understanding of the mechanics/forces put through a board and as a consequence a different appropriate technique or style of riding.
In a similar manner you might find that what technically works for your normal 'skis of the day' would simply not translate to a skiboard/blade, and that the bad (ski) technique that is evident in the video clips is actually the only technique for skiing the things? Not a good advert for skiboards maybe, but nevertheless not bad technique per se, just and appropriate technique for the dynamics of the planks.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rayscoops wrote:
In a similar manner you might find that what technically works for your normal 'skis of the day' would simply not translate to a skiboard/blade, and that the bad (ski) technique that is evident in the video clips is actually the only technique for skiing the things? Not a good advert for skiboards maybe, but nevertheless not bad technique per se, just and appropriate technique for the dynamics of the planks.
No, I don't think that is the case. I think that it is easier to employ bad technique on a skiboard because they are so short, which I think is the reason why I see so many people out of control on them. But good technique on skis works equally well on skiboards. The changes you might need to make are very minor compared to the fundamentals whcih are common across all sizes of ski.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, yes probably so, no real reason not to be on an edge or wave your arms about.
Now, if those who skiboard are not good enough or can not be bothered to learn to ski, is it not the same that those who can not telemark ........ coat
[, i agree that blades and some boards may not be good in certain conditions, but i can guarantee that there are skiboards out there that will be excellent in all conditions.
Physics would suggest otherwise:
Crap in the park as they have no stability, and also due to their stubbyness they completely lack grace
Crap in powder as they have no surface area so sink to the bottom
Crap in moguls as they are too short ot have proper stability
Crap at high speed as they are too short to have proper stability
Crap on the steeps as they don't have enough edge
Crap in crud/variable snow as they can't punch through anything, just get deflected around
Yeah they're fine on blue and red pistes, but not excellent in the way a good slalom or gs ski is.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'll still stand by what I say about skiboards being limiting. Up to a certain level of skiing they do flatter you and yes they are fun. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever - as I said earlier, I used to use them.
However, the best technique in the world will not make up for the fact that at high speed and in the air they are very wobbly and offer little control.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
clarky999, is there an 'all-rounder' ski that will do all of that ? if so why do twin tips, fat skis etc exist and how good are they outside of their specific target use ?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Cunners, saves on baggage charges
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rayscoops wrote:
clarky999, is there an 'all-rounder' ski that will do all of that ? if so why do twin tips, fat skis etc exist and how good are they outside of their specific target use ?
Yes, but they won't be as good in any individual category as a ski designed specifically for it. My Dynastar Sultan 85's cope admirably at all of those, apart from switch in the park - but then I don't really care about the park anyway. My Big Troubles are then better at the offpiste (pow/variable snow) but less good in the bumps and on piste.
But I honestly can't think of any single thing where being on blades would be anything other than a disadvantage.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
someones going to be dangerous whatever they use if they are a tw@t end of ,oh and i have never actually met anyone else who uses them! is it really bad that a 75cm skiboard comes up to my hip
oh and for the record calling all skiboards blades is like saying all hair products are l'oreal
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
to me they seem like different ways of getting down the mountain on two planks whereby technique differs due to the types of planks being used 
would you simply apply and implement the same methods that you use for teaching traditional skiing ? or do you think some hybrid technique be required?
