slikedges, yes I have looked it up, but I don't understand what your point is, as it completely backs up my argument. (If you think it doesn't then we must have been talking at cross purposes!). I think this is what you were referring to:
There was a big debate on this at my club, as we felt some of the younger kids were being pushed to race too much, too soon.
My coaching sessions for the minis were almost entirely centred around fun, and we spent lots of time in the bumps, which they love. There was a lot of competition - but out of the gates as much as in them. They enjoyed it, to the extent that a couple of the best minis who normally skied with the older kids concentrating on serious race techniques sometimes asked to ski with my group instead. The straight coaches did have a tendency to focus on serious technique as opposed to fun - maybe because Enjoyment is not emphasised as being more important than learning in the same way in coaching courses as in instructor training? As as I think Graham says above, I found the best are those who are both an instructor and a coach with a race background.
Quote:
by old ISIA I mean what will be ISIA stamp as opposed to card (which will be the higher ISTD equiv level).
I don't think it will undermine the existing ISIA stamp - we already have the Euro Group which recognises ISTD or equivalent as the top level after all, so the ISIA card will not change anything in these countries.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
beanie1, point is that I'm well aware of current thoughts on minis coaching (you didn't pick up on my first 'FFM' hint early on in the thread ). It's been successfully practised in Europe and Canada for a long time. I'm afraid nothing I've posted in relation to the nature of minis coaching required any argument by you at all! Ross Green and Phil Brown who are in charge of training for the 2 clubs I'm involved with are strong proponents.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi all, just joined this forum so am just catching up but I also did the L2 coach in May and failed it despite having passed the L3 tech earlier in the season (another guy in my group who had passed L3 tech also failed). Main reason I failed was being generally rubbish at picking up new drills in a short timeframe, though also not helped by lack of fitness (although it's only a 4-day course, when you spend half the day skiing round with one ski either in the air or completely off, and the other half of the day jumping over poles or attempting to do tic-tacs, you get pretty tired pretty quickly). My legs had turned to jelly by day 4 so it wasn't too great a surprise when I failed - at least the benefit of this course is you pass or fail depending entirely on whether you can do the drills so there are no mind-games or "Oh the trainer didn't like me". I actually really enjoyed the course - very little standing around listening to the trainer speak, it's all about constant activity and getting on with it. So word to the wise - get some drills practice in but also make sure you're fit!
rob@rar, Just got back from Hintertux.
Level 1 quite an easy course, just about presenting coaching sessions and some tech.
Level 2 much harder, we were very restricted as the weather (except for the last day) was snowy and often with bad visibility which made high speed drills interesting. The course setting was good fun, really enjoyed that part of the course. Drills we had to perform, different one legged drills, white pass, cloudbursts, charlestones, swedish turns (first time I have ever done these) and a couple of different jumping drills (over and under poles etc).
I did some research about the content before doing courses ( thank you snowheads) and had a couple of practice sessions at Hemel and my local dry slope in preperation for course.
This was the first course I had done for nearly 8 years since passing my grade 3 (level 2 now), I really enjoyed the courses and am now going to do my ISIA tech in Jan.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Just a point. Spoke to Diane (BASI trainign dept) a while back in a cafe somewhere in the apls - she said there was an idea to put some videos of a trainer doing some drill on the members section of the website
After all it is free
After all it is free
Wayne, that sounds like a good idea, wonder if it'll be on the new website? (which i think is meant to be launched soon).
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beanie1, don't think so. May take a while to make the videos. Nothing is set, was just an idea I think.
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Wayne, it needn't take long - they could have just videoed the trainer on Dunk's course for example.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
beanie1, having made 9 and a half hours of just the sort of videos you are talking about I can tell you that if you want anything of any use you cannot "just video the trainer". You need to have some plan of what you are trying to show and the types of shots this will require... I've stood behind the camera and reviewed the days footage for many many many hours - it just is not that simple! Even with a clear idea of some of the shots you want to show getting the angles and zoom right can be a pain in the butt.
As a hint - look at most of the stuff put up for movement analysis where the skier is a dot/blob in the distance for most of the footage... this is unusable as demo material. Even the clothing the person wears matters a lot when you shoot footage in a very glare prone environment. Ditto skis and boots - remember you need contrast on a significant zoom on lighting varying from extreme glare to flat light (or you need the perfect days to film)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
little tiger, I'm not suggesting DVD quality videos, but for example there are loads of basic videos of drills on youtube that would be able to give a candidate an idea of what the drill is. Take a look at this example. Each drill is one shot, filmed from one location, by a camera with a decent zoom, followed by some basic editing.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
beanie1, I would say that makes my point. There is no way you can work out what the aims are or the focus of each of those "drills" Also much of the footage is from angles that makes the execution particulars difficult to see...
Think about a Javelin turn - just by watching it once how will you know how it should be executed? Or the various variations? Or what skills it builds? Or the issues with it? (Eg when I described skiing into Javelin on this forum most people had not heard of this version)
Count how much of the footage time you can see the relevant body parts and see interaction of skis with snow - if I cannot see this how can I tell what I'm doing, what effect it has, or how to tell if I am doing it? (Why do I cross my arms? or put my hands on hips?)
I've watched people trying to get 'free lessons' like this... in fact Fastman has had a few following while he has me doing drills. They attempt to do the same drill(or get their 'student' to do it). Usually they do it with all the same problems they already have in their skiing still happening. The drill is wrong for them and they do not understand the emphasis. So the result is totally useless.(Although very comical, keeps me smiling).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
little tiger wrote:
I've watched people trying to get 'free lessons' like this... in fact Fastman has had a few following while he has me doing drills. They attempt to do the same drill(or get their 'student' to do it). Usually they do it with all the same problems they already have in their skiing still happening. The drill is wrong for them and they do not understand the emphasis. So the result is totally useless.(Although very comical, keeps me smiling).
This struck me funny! I was coaching over the weekend, and it happened again. I had my student following me, working on a drill. When I stopped she was rather aggravated, telling me how people kept jumping in between us so they could follow me and try to copy. Gotta keep the gap small!
Yes, and it's not uncommon to see my drills getting poached. Doesn't bother me a bit. Just too bad they usually don't really comprehend the key points the drills are meant to address, so the benefits are mostly lost.
I could see the same problem happen with a quick display video of BASI required drills. Unless there's some attempt to isolate and explain the specific execution elements, with close-up and slow-mo footage, it might prove to be entertaining but fall short on being effective. It's a great idea, but it would have to be done right for people to fully profit from it.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
FastMan and little tiger, I take nothing away from what you guys have done with the series, but I think you're missing a key point here.
At the moment the required coach drills are somewhat a..."secret". Which makes it somewhat difficult to prep.
Even a list of drills would be good. Gash vid would be better. Good vid even better. A commentary more than delightful.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
For those interested in the training course I had a chat with Ross G. tonight and he continues to be very interested with this course that we are proposing. He recons after the new year he will have enough time to run it for us.
For those who dont know Ross was charged with developing the BASI coaching scheme and with Sean Langmuir's departure is keen to get some grass roots input and likes the idea of this intro type course.
Are most people still keen on a weekend only date? It isnt such a big problem for Ross and I but clear slope may be hard to come by
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skimottaret, yep, weekend, but hopefully avoiding early Feb/March/April? TBH I suspect I'd have difficulty fitting it in at this stage unless it was certain specific weekends between my trips.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
FlyingStantoni wrote:
FastMan and little tiger, I take nothing away from what you guys have done with the series, but I think you're missing a key point here.
At the moment the required coach drills are somewhat a..."secret". Which makes it somewhat difficult to prep.
Even a list of drills would be good. Gash vid would be better. Good vid even better. A commentary more than delightful.
Ahhhh, OK. Right up my alley, then. My program teaches a broad spectrum of foundation skills in all the technical areas. With those skills in your pocket, performing any drill is a simple matter of blending the skills you own to fit the task. Easy stuff. You don't need to even know what the drill is going to be. I would strongly advise those trying to prepare for the test to follow this training approach, not only to pass the test, but to enhance your overall skiing prowess. Sounds as though that prowess is what the test is actually designed to measure anyway. I like it, it's a good way to grade the actual skill level of a skier. What can they do on the spur of the moment, tells you a lot about their overall skill base.
So I'll say it again folks. Don't worry about trying to refine your execution of a few specific drills to a "passing" level with the skills you have. Use your time expanding your skill base, then on the spot execute the drill they ask at an impressive level. If just passing the test is the primary goal you have in your sights, you're setting the bar to low. You're doing yourself a disservice. Aim higher.
FastMan, Agreed, but at the moment there's nothing in place within BASI to assist people with that. The BASI system is training and assessment, unlike some other countries systems where you do your training elsewhere followed by an exam. At the moment within the BASI coaching route there doesn't seem to be enough to help candidates to prepare, as there is a huge jump between L1 and L2. For any course (not just skiing) where the result is pass / fail candidates should be given adequate information in advance to help them prepare - it's only fair, particularly when the cost of taking the course is significant.
Perhaps the solution is exactly what skimottaret, is trying to organise - an optional training course for those candidates who are from a non-racing background. Maybe if it is a success BASI might consider organising it themselves - they do exactly that by running an ISTD Tech training course.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skimottaret, I've got a preference for weekends, but evenings might work for me. I just need sufficient notice.
Maybe if it is a success BASI might consider organising it themselves
give a guy a break, lets wait and see how this goes before a trainer knicks my idea
FlyingStantoni, slikedges, as the March and May L2 courses are completely booked are you guys bothered if it is this season? silly early isnt such a bad idea. The race team has the slope at 7 on a sunday and unsurprisingly it isnt that popular and slope pretty empty. i could get us in for that time slot no worries
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skimottaret, would have to be a weekend for me if happening between now and late July 2010 - all my weeks are busy and am away Feb half term and probs all of the Easter fortnight. Could do early but would have to come over the night before and stay overnight to do that.
BTW, I haven't done L1 coaching yet so that's the level I'm looking at practising for although obviously L2 stuff to stretch me would not be unwelcome - I guess L1 should be well within my abilities having already passed BASI L2 Alpine. At the moment the L1 coaching courses mentioned on the BASI site all seem to be running in Austria but I'm hoping they'll have something at a dome during the season 'coz I'd rather keep costs down and do it over here - I frankly wish they'd run something in Scotland given I'm spending many of my free weeks this season up there ... and it's not exactly a million miles away from BASI's doorstep!
After all it is free
After all it is free
roga, a dome course is more likely off season when the coaches are in the UK, kinda surprised as well that they dont have something in Aviemore or other scottish resort...
if you have an L2 instructor pass the L1 coach is a doddle but L2 will be challenging.
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skimottaret wrote:
FlyingStantoni, slikedges, as the March and May L2 courses are completely booked are you guys bothered if it is this season?
Yes. Given that I'm booked on the course in May
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bump, i have spoken with Ross and we are comparing diaries but looking at a weekend during march or april. ... also depending on numbers we may be able to run seperate L1 and L2 prep courses...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Hi all Ross and I have come up with a few potential dates for this course :
Sun 21 March
Sat 24 April
Sat 25 April
I would be very greatful if anyone who expressed an interest could let me know if they are still interested and if so which date(s) suit best. I will be opening this course up to the instructor base at Hemel and MK to ensure we are abel to run it but Ross is keen and thinks it a good idea.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
roga,
You'll have a big problem.
You have to wear a helmet for the L2.
Who will look after your hat whilst your out of the piste ?
Also, will anyone recognise you if not in the hat ?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
All three dates work for me.
I'd be interested in on the March date and one of the April dates if anyone else is also interested.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
skimottaret, all three dates could work but I'd suggest April as the slope is still likely to be mad weekend busy in March
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
^ Yeah I'd go with the April dates too.
Wayne wrote:
roga,
You'll have a big problem.
You have to wear a helmet for the L2.
Who will look after your hat whilst your out of the piste ?
Also, will anyone recognise you if not in the hat ?
LOL, I'll never escape this will I Wayne
I actually do wear a helmet when skiing but I just try to minimise the time between hat off and helmet on as much as possible so nobody sees me bare headed and doesn't recognise me hatless
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hi, I'm interested in this course, but can't do any of the dates (don't the April dates clash with the EOSB).
Could you put me down as 'interested on another date' (no button!) , thanks
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowqueen11, will do. If there is enough demand and Ross has a free date we will try to make sure that everyone who wants some training for this will get on a course. Hopefully there will be enough interest from the instructors at Hemel and MK to run a few days.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi rob@rar andskimottaret,
Just a thought. What will happen if you train on and perfect the wrong drills
Timberwolf, yes it is, we are hoping to run two courses depending on numbers. We run preparation courses for both the BASI Instructor and Coaching pathways. They are slightly different and more information on the differences between the two can can be found on the BASI Coaching Page and Instructor Pathway.
For the March / April course one will be a preparation for the BASI L1 coach course (which would be appropriate for you) . The other for the L2 award which is aimed at current coaches and L1/L2 instructors.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skimottaret, thanks mate - Yep, the prep for the L1 coach course - OK, put me down as 'interested' then......
After all it is free
After all it is free
Still interested and can do any of the dates, but prefer the April.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hi Guys, I can't commit at the moment but may drop in last minute should there be a place.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
thanks all, seems to be a preference for the April dates so i will get with Ross and try to firm these up. I think the centre will be quieter in April anyways so this is probably best. I am concious that a few are booked on the L2 course in Tux 6th of May so we will definately run ours before that one.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
). It's been successfully practised in Europe and Canada for a long time. I'm afraid nothing I've posted in relation to the nature of minis coaching required any argument by you at all! Ross Green and Phil Brown who are in charge of training for the 2 clubs I'm involved with are strong proponents.
