 Poster: A snowHead
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Bah! Sorry.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret,
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What i am wondering is if you go out with a group (say an L2 on a snowheads tour to Austria) and do paid for teaching are you covered by BASI liability insurance, cant see why not.
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Unless you are an ISTD, BASI qualifications require you to work for a ski school before you can be covered with their insurance.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ski, Interesting, had a quick look and the BASI policy says "shall NOT include self employed snowsports instructors" having ISTD qualifies you to operate independently but would an ISTD doing that be covered under basi insurance? or do ISTD's have to set up a ski school company structure and seperate business insurance when operating as independents?
Dont want to get too personal but i am guessing if you take out groups to the alps for training you do so under a club banner of which you are a member using the coaching get out of jail free card 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The most recent candidate who passed the SSE IVSI would not have passed a BASI ISIA technical level (January 2009 )
The BASI level 4 coach is a very high level of technical skiing ability, however it does not cover the All Mountain skills as its aimed at national team level coaches. However, anyone who is at that level would already be a great all round skier.
The IVSI award is only race orientated in some countrys, however in most it is aimed at instructor who are working in ski clubs. I have a few who work for me at Hemel (English, Polish, eastern European) I would say they all ski at a good BASI L2 level but not ISIA.
The French have a professional race coach qualification (BEES 2nd degree) which is a very high level. This is not the same as the Fench IVSI level (moniteur Federal).
PSG
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gilleski, The IVSI award in this country is given both for race coaches and instructors working in clubs, I don't think there is anything wrong with the skiing standard of L4 Performance coaches (or L3 ones even though they don't qualify for IVSI).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret,
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Dont want to get too personal but i am guessing if you take out groups to the alps for training you do so under a club banner of which you are a member using the coaching get out of jail free card
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I have an IVSI license
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rjs, I would agree, the level of our coaches working in clubs is very good and on a par with any other nation. From my observations, our coaches that are performance focused tend to be better skiers, our coaches working with recreational skiers are at the level they need to be for just that. I am a big fan of IVSI and what it stands for (I am a member)!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rjs, for the BASI Level 3 you also have to do the ISIA teaching don't you? And the speed test, and course setting module.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, yes that's right. So 5 days for the L3 Coach course, 5 days for the ISIA Teaching module, and course setting via SSGB (plus current 1st aid and child protection).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, just out of interest, do you know if they'd waive the normal pre-requisites for the ISIA teaching (ie L2 instructor and 200 logged teaching hours) for someone who was just a coach and not an instructor too? I guess they would, but I don't know anyone who's following the BASI coaching route without also being an instructor.
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beanie1, There wouldn't be much point in me doing ISIA teaching, I also don't have avalanche gear which seems to be required.
I'm not bothered whether I pass either course, I'm not going to do more than I do at present. I just want to learn a bit more.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 18-06-09 15:06; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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beanie1, no idea, but I'd guess that the requirement for the ISIA Teach is to make sure that some of the fundamental teaching concepts are understood and can be demonstrated by the L3 Coach candidate.
As ISIA teach is mandatory, and the only way to do an ISIA module is to pass BASI L2 and do 200 hours teaching it doesn't seem possible to progress beyond Coach L2 if you don't also follow the instructor route. I can't see any sign of exceptions mentioned on the BASI website.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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slikedges, The UKSS level 4 will be quite a bit easier in terms of technical performance and it leads to an IVSI award. The BASI L2 is a higher level of technical performance and dosnt lead to IVSI. How important is IVSI to you? Another option would be to do the Irish L3 coach which does lead to IVSI www.iasisnowsports.ie
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, No you're right it doesn't, I've looked too. Although I expect that's just because they've not encountered anyone in that position before. As BASI are trying to provide pathways for both instructors and coaches I think they would have to make an exception if they got someone who only wanted to be a coach. It's a huge amount of extra time and expense, and possibly courses of no interest to that person otherwise. Maybe they would say you had to have 200 logged coaching hours.
I can imagine the ISIA teach would be quite tough for someone who'd not done the L2 instructor - the L2 coach doesn't go into anywhere like the depth as the L2 instructor does on teaching methods.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gilleski, Are you sure about the skiing standards required ? New BASI L2 coach is harder than UKSS L4 Performance Coach (old APC2) ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rjs, To be fair I am thinking UKSS development coach and not performance. I took the old APC 2 through SS Scotland and I would say it was ISIA standard. I also took the SSE development coach and I would say it was BASI L2 ++ standard. I stand corrected.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This could be wrong but Ross Green told me around two months ago that the L3 coach was going to include a highly revised Common Theory weeks course that was going to have modules on nutrition, race preparation of skis, fitness, biomechanics, strength conditioning etc. instead of the Teach. this may still be in work, or was decied against but to me would make more sense than doing the Teach for experienced race coaches.....
on the last L2 coach RG did 5/10 passed... It seems to me that the skiing standard it is at ISIA tech level and a bit higher than APC1, dont know about comparing to APC2 as the only APC2's i have seen have been experienced coaches and hot skiers..
rjs, the recent L3 coach course was very, very tough i hear.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, woh that's a big drop off in pass rate from when we did it? Out of interest, do you know if any of those had already passed their ISIA tech? Did we just have a good group, or do you think the pass rate is down to the changes in the course (some of the old APM content)?
I guess if the L3 requires a Eurotest pass, then the skiing standard required will be ISTD.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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gilleski, if the UKSS Perf L4 was easier or same level as BASI Coach L2 = "ISIA piste", I'd take it as well as BASI Coach L2 as having IVSI brings certain benefits. I'd assume IASI Coach L3 is the same std as BASI Coach L3 = Eurotest, so I wouldn't contemplate that, unless I just wanted to do the course for the training element because I was going to do a lot more coaching, which I'm not.
rjs, what level of performance do you think SSE Perf L4 is? ISIA, higher, lower?
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slikedges,The IASI L3 is like the BASI L3 in terms of personal performance, however without the Euro test requirement. You do have to prove some race experience mind. The Euro Test requirement makes the courses prohibitive and means less coaches are likely to move forwards and take further education. Most coaches in the UK work as amateurs, that is to say what they do is highly professional in quality, but its not their job. This is also the case in Europe.
Example:
The guy that trains the local ski club in Mayrhofen probably sells insurance Monday to Friday. Then on the weekend he steps in to his skis and trains the local kids. Opportunities as a “professional” coach can only really be with nation teams and as rare as hens teeth! This example is exactly what the IVSI represent
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gilleski, but wouldn't the insurance guy that trains the local ski club in Mayrhofen be minimum ex-Europa and capable of passing Eurotest switch, with one arm tied behind his back, one working eye, wearing ultra baggy snowboard grunge complete with clown hat?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, The local guys are not always that hot but they have a weath of experience. Its a bit like our local football team coaches in the UK. When a child starts to get results, then they move in to a team with a higher qualified coach and get in to the system.
skimottaret, totally agree. We have some coaches here are Hemel who would not pass the L3 technical but are great coaches and have developed young skiers from scratch to national team level. Key thing is demonstrations, as a coach you need to demonstrate a picture to young skiers. However, there are many further skills a coach needs appart from the ability to ski well. Communication being key.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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slikedges, I was expecting the required standard for UKSS L4 Perf to be a lot higher than ISIA.
skimottaretYou can get Eurotest exemption on past FIS points already. I missed the Coaches' meeting in Meribel as it was at the same time as the meeting for the Scottish Champs in Courchevel.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rjs, it's something like 80 FIS points for the exemption, which seems quite hardcore as the equivalent FIS points for a performance to pass the Eurotest is 140 or so.
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Sideshow_Bob, I know, I think it can be in any discipline though.
I guess it comes down to what the certifying bodies are trying to achieve, do they want to increase the earning power of all coaches (as BASI have said) by helping them to be perceived to be more professional, ensure that coaches have race experience themselves, make sure that coaches can do good demos, or a bit of all three ?
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You know it makes sense.
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I think there's a need for all 3 isn't there? The jump up from L2 Development Coach to L3 Performance Coach is pretty big though - but then I guess the jump up from ISIA to ISTD is similarly big on the instructing side. Does anyone know what the jump from L3 to L4 is like? If L3 requires a Eurotest pass, then L4 is surely nothing less than ex-National team member - but then perhaps that is the idea?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| increase the earning power of all coaches (as BASI have said) by helping them to be perceived to be more professional, ensure that coaches have race experience themselves, make sure that coaches can do good demos, or a bit of all three ? |
I've wondered about this. It seems that the best way to increase earning potential is to increase the size of the market in relation to the number of coaches. One of the interesting things about race coaching, is that a big part of the market is Speed Test training of more coaches and instructors, and the whole thing feeds on it's self to a degree.
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Poster: A snowHead
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One of the interesting things about race coaching, is that a big part of the market is Speed Test training of more coaches and instructors, and the whole thing feeds on it's self to a degree.
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good point 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| ski, Interesting, had a quick look and the BASI policy says "shall NOT include self employed snowsports instructors" |
Is there a link to the policy wording ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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david@mediacopy, It's in the member's section of the website, think there's an insurance tab on the lefthand menu from memory?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, ah OK. I've always had a difficult relationship with the BASI web site. Hopefully thats fixed now !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For any checks on qualifications for instructing in Andorra you need to get in touch with EFPEM (www.efpem.ad) who are the governing body for instructing in Andorra. Also, take a look at www.pasdelacasa-andorra.com/winter/en/working.html for information about visas etc. and general stuff about working in Andorra.
Jayne
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jayne1407,
I was in Andorra in few months ago chatting to a basi girl in a cable car (she has lived and worked there for over 10 years) and she said that foreign nationals used to be able to take the local tests in Andorra but, following a little local politics, foreigners now to need to have their own governing body (what ever it says on your passport) ISIA standard to teach in Andorra, so for british that's L3 basi. Not sure what the locals need.
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Wayne, has that changed recently then? I'm sure you used to be able to teach in Andorra with L2 and an extra 4 or 5 day course to make up the training time Andorra required.
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May be wrong so you would need to check it out. But she said that she had the local cert but got told as she had uk passport she was still british regardless of how long she had lived there, she needed the old basi 2 - now L3, so she went off and did it. Local politics ???
But these things all over europe keep changeing so it may have changed again, who knows
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's EFPEM who make the rules in Andorra, so best to get in touch with them for the most up to date answer. Their e-mail is efpem@andorra.ad
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FAQ
