 Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, Sounds good -my very limited experience of teles on the glacier is that you are best served when things soften up rather than first thing.
The key to getting comfortable IMV is a dynamic balance where you feel equally confident whether in turn or traversing due to having your weight on the balls of the feet. Stemming in a turn is almost inevitable IMV and a feature of the turn otherwise there would be some very weird radius things going on with dual enaged edges with a significant offset probably more than the less physics nerdy can cope with
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, If I'd known that you had some free time to tele, I'd have stayed for a few more days. I didn't have much time or opportunity last week to develop any freeheel competence but I did get a couple of good carving turns when I was able to feel a single long effective edge though I couldn't flick through the transition onto the opposite side. I hink my issue at the moment is that I don't yet have a 'feel' (if that's the right word) for the correct fore-aft balance points in the turn sequence. I'm making myself a passenger on the skis rather than the driver.
I've many miles to meet and much more snow to eat afore I can call myself a telemarker.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On attend 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Very nice front knee/ankle bend and the rear ski is definitely kicking up some spray showing that it must be contributing to the turn. Overall balance and poise looks excellent - no jerky reversions to alpine (which I have yet to master). I quite like the look of the split for a tall stance.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, Thank you kind sir. I'd like to split a bit more and get more inclination into the turn, but that will have to wait a bit I guess. Don't forget this is an easy blue piste, and I'm going very slowly! 
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If you can do it slow it all gets easier with a bit of speed. One tip I found useful in trying to get the rear ski active was to concentrate on screwing the ball of the rear foot into the ski such the the heel is pushed inside the turn.
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You know it makes sense.
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(Apologies for using the timecodes, but I couldn't framegrab the video for some reason. The timecodes relate to the camera timecodes.)
It's very good for 7-8 hours easiski. Much better than me at that stage 
Lots of good stuff going on. Posture and arms are really good.
I've got four suggestions for things to focus on:
- skiing squarer to the hill
- edge change before lead change
- lead change smoothness, consistency and speed
- vertical movement
Skiing squarer to the hill
You're putting a lot of counter rotation into your turns at the moment and, at the turn radius you're doing and level of skill that you have, it's causing you more problems than it's worth. Specifically:
- you've got a definite and consistent snowplough, which you can see at 6:02 and 54:08
- it's causing your CoM to drop back in the bottom half of the turn - have a look 11:07 - your CoM has dropped way behind the lead ski, leaving you out of balance
I'm guessing that you wouldn't put as much counter rotation into alpine turns of that radius, so ski it as you'd ski an alpine turn of the same radius.
If you keep squarer to the hill then you'll have your weight over the skis and they'll work better for you.
(The rotation thing is very classic old school telemark and you find it in quite a few of the books, but, just like in alpine, modern equipment means that it's really not necessary for this radius of turn.)
Edge change before lead change
IMV the hardest thing in telemark is getting your skis to work for you - especially the rear ski. If you think about it, it's actually very hard to get the rear ski working as you've got so little purchase over it.
The trick is to get the rear ski working for you whilst it's still the lead ski - which is why it's so important in telemark to edge change before you lead change. That way you can load the ski whilst your foot is flat on it and then seek to maintain the pressure on the ski as you lead change.
The absolutely key drill here is "snurfing" (what the Americans call "monomarking"). There's a really good video on this over at telemark tips.
You want to build up to a really bomber edge change with a nice diagonal crossover at the fallline. Ideally, build this up until you can carve whilst snurfing.
Once you've got the edge change working at the fallline (12 o'clock) then aim to lead change between 1 o'clock and 3 o'clock. (This, of course, is a clock face analogy, not a suggestion that you take 3 hours to make one turn!)
Lead change smoothness, consistency and speed
Once you've got your edge then you need to maintain that edge through the lead change. And to do that the lead change needs to be really smooth and consistent.
Currently you're either snapping the lead change (14:15) or starting the change; hesitating at parallel and then finishing the lead change (the following turn). Both of these result in you losing pressure on the rear ski and it stopping working for you.
The very best thing to do for lead change smoothness is lots of traverses where you just continually lead change. In terms of timing for the radius of turns you're doing then I'd suggest aiming to smoothly lead change between 1 o'clock and 3 o'clock - so you're aiming for a lead change of around 2 seconds. Personally, I find counting or singing helps with this.
You want to eventually be able to make quick and slow lead changes - so play with the timing. The key is that you want the lead changes to be utterly consistent and smooth.
Just as you would with a more advanced traverse drill, build up so that you change maintain a really nice edge whilst lead changing.
Once you've got the exercise working on traverses then try continually lead changing around skidded turns of about the same radius on green terrain.
If your legs will bear it then you can try doing lead changes on the button lift. 
Vertical movement
You need some!
Just as for alpine, vertical movement is the key way you manage pressure through the skis and keep them working for you. If you don't move vertically then your skis'll be dead.
The drills for this are as you'd imagine - start with the lead change traverse drill above and add some vertical movement. And then add a lot more vertical movement.
Then move onto snurfing / carved snurfing adding in vertical movement.
As fatbob says, the split is (just about) ok for a tall stance. PSIA's view is that the tip of the rear ski should be in the functional range between the toe of the boot of the lead ski and halfway between the toe and tip of the lead ski. If you look at 1:23:23 you'll see that it's generally about half way.
Hope this helps.
(This is, of course, a clear case of "What the difference between a snowboard instructor and his client? Three days" )
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, for my money doing lots of monomarking is the best very tele exercise around.
Have fun 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski,
| Quote: |
| I'll try to focus on the edge change before lead change to start with ... |
Whilst agreeing with most of the advice from FlyingStantoni (particularly the "monomark" exercise with no lead change) I feel it's maybe worth not dwelling too much on the bit quoted above.
IMO this can lead to what Paul Parker refers to as a 2-step telemark - ie you may end up edge changing from a tele into effectively an alpine stance, before making the lead-change into the next tele. In the early stages, it certainly provides a stable platform prior to making the lead-change, but may introduce bad-habits which are difficult to throw off later.
I reckon one you've cracked the t-turn its more of an "edge-check / release edges & lead-change whilst you are light on the skis / set edges and complete the new turn" sort of thing.
Just my 3-pennr'th... hope I don't start a flame-war 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| geoffers wrote: |
| Just my 3-pennr'th... hope I don't start a flame-war |
I fear the worst here mate!
The key thing about the monomark turn is that you edge change in the previous tele stance and then lead change. If you get 'stuck' half way through the lead change in an alpine stance then that's a different problem...
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geoffers, appreciate the input. I'll think I'll have to bookmark this thread for next December, so I don't forget all the advice when I next get back on the teles. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I surrender  - I'm on your side & love using the mono... as a training exercise
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LOL geoffers
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easiski, looking excellent - nice smooth graceful turns.
One focus which may improve lead changes may be to focus more on pulling the trailing ski back rather than thinking of pushing the lead ski forwards. It should be a bit of both, but focusing more on getting the back-ski back helps to get it weighted.
I've done several courses with John Eames, and on one of the first days I remember him asking "What do we focus on when starting the lead-change?" and answered something like "getting my weight forward onto the lead-ski" to which he made the above suggestion.
Hope it helps..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, I know nothing about telemarking but that does indeed look smooth - and cool! Nice bit of filming, too. Well done butterfly. So far my attempts to video people skiing have been fairly disastrous - blobs in the distance!
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easiski, Very elegant, and quite a bit more balanced then I did down Coire na Ciste.... Still have to try and get the video from wigan as we recorded us both coming down on her camera
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Alastair Pink, I do love telemarking. I'm not at all good yet, and do struggle in deeper snow or difficult conditions etc. however I shall do as much as I can this summer now that I have my own gear. I appreciate your kind remark.
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, loving something because it is hard is exactly the tele spirit!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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easiski, Looking far better than my woeful effort at the weekend. Super quiet upper body - very nice.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, Looks really good Bit more angulation might be nice ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ski, Curious! I ws trying for less angulation and more inclination to keep more weight on the inside ski. Please elaborate! Somewhere, earlier in the thread, I was advised to try to keep more weight on the inside ski ... more angulation means more weight on the outside (never a problem) and ... 
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easiski - not necessarily: ski like a banana.
| Quote: |
| I was advised to try to keep more weight on the inside ski ... |
Page 82 of the Paul Parker bible says
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| when you make a turn, the downhill hip rotates [to the hill], and your torso twists the other way... tele-anticipation...often feel down-hill hip bone digging into my ribs... I could carry a pencil pinched between the lower rib cage and the crest of the hip bone. |
P78 says :
| Quote: |
| The rear (little toe) ski is especially important. Avoid "tiptoeing" on it. Keep your entire forefoot on the ski. |
this was the intent of my suggestion for focusing on keeping the rear-ski weighted
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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geoffers, I'm struggling to visualise this in relation to the good tele skiers I'm seeing. In any case I don't think this degree of bend is possible for me with my bad back. There was a trainer up there yesterday with some race kids on teles - he's fab on them. I'll see if I can buttonhole him today and ask what he thinks - maybe ski a little on Fri ... Renato stays fairly square to the skis relatively compared to old style even though he's very low.
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I struggle a bit with some of the tele style stuff - there is no doubt there are multiple schools - high stance, low stance. I'm not a very good telemarker but I'm really struggling with the "hold a melon" knee separation thing.
1 Biomechanically it doesn't seem very easy for me .
2 It actually contributes to decreased stability and "feel" for my edges (maybe this is my problem and I should be looking for controlled instability as part of dynamic skiing)
I can see there's a case for it similar to the alpine hip width ski separation thing in modern alpine skiing but I'm not yet convinced its essential. My favourite book - Allen & Mike's doesn't make a bit deal of it at all. I know this is a crusty old hippy's book but its the most useful ski instruction book I've ever read for drills and aide memoires. Intuitively i guess I'm throwing up challenges to it because I can't do it but I find it a bit tiresome when its the first tip people always try to give me.
Incidentally I've been picked up indoors and on mild pistes for a too narrow alpine stance which does not really reflect my stance width when really skiing.
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fatbob, That's interesting. I'll go up on the teles tomorrow as I won't get a chance next week. There are a few peeps tele-ing on the glacier at the mo, so I'll keep an eye out for them and see what they're doing. More angulation is not a problem for me (narrow stance is a bit a you say it is for you), however I rather like banking .... Certainly I cannot get very low or a very big fore/aft separation due to my dodgy bits!!
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I went up on teles today and worked on moving my inside foot back at the start of the turn. I found that really good actually and helped to keep more edge on the skis from the start. However I did find it harder to keep my shin firm against the tongue of the boot on my dodgy left ankle. Thanks all. I even kept the tele a few times crossing big ruts after the courses had been taken out - that's a first as I would normally stand up to cross those.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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geoffers, Did that on the nursery slopes at the end of the winter thanks to your suggestion earlier in the thread. I can't really do exercises when I'm teaching alpine while skiing tele!!! Maybe next week. No chance this week - alpine right through.
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FAQ
At any rate I feel as though I'm improving each time I go up, so am quite encouraged after today. I'll try to get someone to video me and post that when I can. Sore knee though today, so 2 or 3 runs at a time was the most I could manage.
Look forward to seeing your vid. 
