 Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops, don't worry... you're getting more! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
except PE teachers who are not caught up in the 'teaching bubble' as much as the rest.
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I didn't think PE teachers actually taught.
School ski trips are hard work, good fun and rewarding I have done my fair share. I am no longer keen to do any more as I have found that my teaching suffered. In the run up to the trip had lots of extra stuff to do, and following the trip I was tired and catching up all the stuff (school related) I needed to. So now I just go skiing myself.
I think that many more primary school should offer trips, and get kids hooked earlier.
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As a PE Teacher for the past 25 years ( and one who has been involved in school ski trips for the past 15 ), I'm totally baffled by jtrobino03's opening comment.
Pray tell me what I've been up to for all those years then ?
This thread was actually quite funny to begin with. Now it's just... WEIRD !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fair play to teachers, they get 12+ week holidays a year, finish at 3.30 everyday, with a lunch and a couple of breaks each day plus a final salary pension scheme.. can't blame them for taking the easy life.. 
The free skiing trip each year is the icing on the cake...
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Last night my wife, and I accompanied our eldest son to his new school for next year. he has to choose GCSE options and many of his current teachers were there to assist. His current school is yrears 7,8 & 9 and the new one will be 10,11 and then optional 6th form.
His current tearchers are, on the whole, fantastic. The amount of time they give up on an evening to work is considerable. I would go as far to say that some are inspirational. I was also stunned at the intensity, volume and standard of the work required in years 10 & 11. A country mile away from what we were doing 34 years ago. They do one of the most important jobs on the planet
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| cfc5mu0 wrote: |
Fair play to teachers, they get 12+ week holidays a year, finish at 3.30 everyday, with a lunch and a couple of breaks each day plus a final salary pension scheme.. can't blame them for taking the easy life..
The free skiing trip each year is the icing on the cake... |
That's a far better advert than the one where the kid signs the 3-1 score to the Spurs supporting teacher that's on at the minute. Well done! Email a copy to the DFES.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 28-01-09 12:57; edited 1 time in total
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Fr0sty the Sn0wman,
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His current school is yrears 7,8 & 9 and the new one will be 10,11 and then optional 6th form
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Is that normal for oop north or are you moving him by choice?
Down here in the Beautiful South they tend to be at one school from 11-18.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boredsurfing, No it is unusual. I think they are sometimes known as "middle schools"
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Fr0sty the Sn0wman,ah, yes we had some middle schools a few years ago. It is surprising how the organisation of education in the UK changes. When I worked in Cambridgeshire there was (may still be) a system of 'Village Colleges' which were similar to Comprehensives. Parts of Wiltshire and Kent still have selective Grammar Schools, Hampshire has 6th Form only colleges and I guess Scotland has something different again!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| I was also stunned at the intensity, volume and standard of the work required in years 10 & 11. A country mile away from what we were doing 34 years ago |
so your maths teacher was not up to much then
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 28-01-09 13:30; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OMG !! what have I let myself in for ...wife has booked us to go on the school ski trip at half term just because our son wanted to go!..no doubt we will be hauled in to help out with the chaos and we have had to pay for the priviledge. It aint cheap either.
We have filled in copious questionnaires, I have completed yet another check to make sure Im not a child molester ( the third I've completed in as many years as I coach rugby at our local club) and I doubt my son will give a stuff we are going with him. I would imagine he will only want to know us when he wants cash as he will be too busy with his mates.
Thank f.. Ive booked a cheapy to Austria next week so that i can cope.
Come on you teachers there must be a few stories about the dreaded parents who hitch on for the ride!
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Rowley B QC, I don't wish to sound rude, but you must be completely barmy (or balmy, as you prefer).
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You know it makes sense.
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Blame the wife ... divorce would have been more expensive ( I should know ) I ve even got a set of the rules ..apparently if I venture off piste the organiser will take my pass away!!..Like to see him try. I can only summise that the rules are for the students as I will breaching the no alcohol rule once I reach the airport.
The only good thing is la Massana ( I know.. Ive never heard of it before we booked) looks a decent bet with Andorra having what would appear to be a mother of all seasons snow wise
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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But spare a thought for poor teachers, if they ever want to go on a proper skiing holiday it has to be done with all the crowds and horrific prices at half term 
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Poster: A snowHead
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On the job front, as my user name hints I am a member of one of those professions castigated in this thread. I have come across some atrocious lawyers doing litigious and non litigious work but I could say the same for every other profession...including those in the construction industry. Some teachers can live in a world of their own others are just like you and me.
There is a common saying amongst lawyers in our neck of the woods "be wary when acting for teachers,clergy and master mariners" crap saying but it's certainly rings true when dealing with men of the cloth and those at sea, thankfully teachers in my experiance turn out to be fairly average clients.
Final note I always find it funny when the plumber you have just employed always slags off the previous plumber's work.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This article in my local newspaper caught my attention
http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Gran-blasts-high-cost-school-trips/article-644075-detail/article.html
I am a bit confused about school ski holidays.
Firstly, are they in term time or during the school holidays? and if during school holidays do the teachers get paid for their time? Do teachers have to participate in such events as part of their official school duties?
Secondly, I am a little uncomfortable with activities being organised by schools whereby the 'ability of parents to pay' is a major factor as to whether a pupil can participate in the activity. I remember feeling somewhat like a second class citizen (when in school a long long time ago) when such a school trip was available and some kids could go on it, whilst most of us could not afford it. The only reason for the trip that I could see was that some of the teachers were skiiers and wanted a free trip during term time. Other trips were day trips to Bath Spa etc. which seemed much more educational
Thirdly, surely a school trip should have more of an educational basis to it, and please do not come back with the 'but the kids will do a project' line (any 'project' would just be a contrived one to tick some boxes) because there are many more appropriate/alternative/cheaper educational holidays available other than skiing
So I suppose what I am a trying to find out is why a school would organise a ski trip?, and the only reason I can come up with is because some teachers are willing to organise it (and take the hassle of going away with the kids) because the want a free ski holiday?
Maybe some teachers can put me straight on this 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rayscoops, is it the fact they don't do school boarding trips that is galling you so? 
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| So I suppose what I am a trying to find out is why a school would organise a ski trip? |
Is it beyond your comprehension that schools like to provide their kids with as many opportunities as possible? For some schools this might include the opportunity to sample skiing. All I can say is "thank god for that" because without the extra effort that three or four of my teachers made when I was in school I'm unlikely to have ever tried skiing, and my life would be considerably poorer for it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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is it the fact they don't do school boarding trips that is galling you so?
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Usually they do, offering boarding annd skiing as alternatives.
To answer rayscoops questions; the trips are mostly in school hols, the teachers are not paid extra and it is not an expected duty (though it could be seen as a positive contribution to the school and hence good for promotion prospects).
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rayscoops, I'm not a teacher, but to answer some of your questions....
Most schools will organise their ski trip in the school holidays. Staff do not get paid for this, and it is not part of their duties. The teachers that I know who run ski trips are the sort of people who are working in education because they want to help shape young peoples lives and give them opportunities. I know from trips (non-skiing) that I run, one of the great pleasures is seeing the teenagers have a go at things, develop skills and try things that they never thought they would be able to do.
I've been on a school ski trip where only 4 of the 50ish kids had ever put skis on before. I got far more out of that week that I have done bombing round the slopes with an advanced group. Many of the kids had never really seen proper snow, so spent every spare minute having snowball fights, building snowmen and bum boarding outside the hotel. I know for a fact that in 50 yrs time when they look back on their time at school, they will all remember that week. Maybe there are some selfish people out there who wouldn't give up their time to help with that, but I know that whatever hassles there are (and there are many!) that the rewards are greater.
For anyone who thinks that teachers would only give up a week of their holiday to take kids skiing so that they could get a freebee, then I feel sorry for you. You obviously don't understand what it is to give of your time to help someone else. Maybe you should try it sometime...doesn't have to be a ski trip, try visiting terminally ill people in a hospice who have no family, or helping with adults with severe disabilities, etc.
Yes, I've met one or two ski party leaders who are in it for themselves, but they stand out a mile as being the exception. It's a really hard way to "earn" yourself a £600 ski trip!
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A kid's education does not start and end in the classroom....travel broadens the mind leading children to experience things and develope healthy interests in things which will hopefully help them grow into well rounded adults...well thats the excuse I give the school when I've taken my kids on the odd holiday during term time the fact that its significantly cheaper and when on the the slopes it is less crowded has of course nothing to do with it
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 28-01-09 15:37; edited 1 time in total
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Elizabeth B, well said!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't really understand rayscoops's cynicism. My mate Mick works in a school in a deprived area of Hartlepool and often takes kids from the school on a ski trip, I think most would regard this as an admirable thing for him to do. As rob@rar, mentions, this involves travel to an interesting environment where the kids participate in an activity they otherwise wouldn't experience; hardly uneducational, is it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, Elizabeth B, well done.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kelskii, he's just fishing...
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rob@rar, Rowley B QC, Elizabeth B, I understand everything you say and the idea that a teacher wants to help in the development of school children is fantastic. I am not questioning the validity of a school trip, I am specifically questioning ski school trips.
I went to a 1600 all-boys comprehensive school in the catchment area of the roughest council estates in south Wales and one year a ski trip was organised, most of us could not afford school meals never mind a ski trip, so my question is why are ski trips organised in preference to more affordable trips to such places as the battlefields of Belgium, geology trips to Italy, trips to the European parliament etc.
Skiing is such an expensive trip that it effectively excludes any one who does not have the ability to pay, this is what is confusing me, not the idea of a school holiday, but a school holiday that is based upon what some might view as an elitist sport that until recently was beyond the financial means of a large proportion of parents.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 28-01-09 15:47; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, he's done well today, quite a few bites
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Elizabeth B, soap box on its way to you in the post
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Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops, if you subscribe to either the idea that school trips should be more or less wholly educational or the idea that if everyone can't afford go, no-one should be offered the chance to go, school ski trips are a no-no. I don't. One would hope that a range of trips is offered, something for most people if not for everyone, but the sooner kids get used to the 'life is a sh*t sandwich' idea, the better.
BTW, I seem to remember from my time as a governor of my kids' primary school that government guidelines or something of that sort decreed that no kid should be denied a place on a school trip because of inability, or even parental unwillingness, to pay. This reduced the number of trips offered, because of the cost to the school. I wonder how this applies to ski trips; perhaps as they are in the hols, it doesn't, but I can't see that it makes any difference when they are.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rayscoops, I too grew up in that part of the world, and attended a similar school to you. I went on the first school ski trip that the school itself had organised, and this was largely done by two teachers who had previously been on ski trips arranged by the LEA rather than an individual school. The teachers decided to run the trip because a number of kids begged them to. The trip took place over New Year, so the teachers were away from family and friends (I presume without any extra pay). I realise now that for my parents it was a huge financial commitment to send me on that trip, but they wanted me to have the opportunity to try skiing (not something we would ever have done as a family). For the teachers it was just one of the extra curricular things they did (both were heavily involved with sport, including evening and weekend commitments) so I can only assume that they too wanted to give kids the opportunity to experience something new. For the school it was just one of the things that they tried to offer their kids outside of the formal curriculum. We also had school trips to London (British Museum and watching a film about the Turin Shroud), geology trips to West Wales & the Brecon Beacons, trips to Bristol Zoo, etc.
So for the people who were the most involved in making this, and subsequent, ski trips happen the motivation seems to be largely altruistic. Is this so difficult to understand? Undoubtedly they enjoyed the trip as well, but there's no crime in that. Having worked quite closely teachers who had arranged a ski trip when I was teaching in Italy a couple of weeks ago I don't underestimate the effort that is required.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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richmond, perhaps a trip that is within the financial means of the majority rather than the minority maybe would be a good way of deciding whether a trip is appropriate ? and perhaps one with some educational bias ?
I know I am probably trying to push 'snow up hill' on a mainly middle class forum of skiers by questioning the validity of little Johnny going on a £800 school ski trip, but I remember watching a TV programme where kids from inner city Brum (I think) went to a west country farm and had great fun feeding animals, mucking around and generally learning and seeing another side of life compared to what they would normally participate in; this is in contrast to bunch of middle classed kids having an 'extra' school ski holiday in the French Alps 
rob@rar, Yes, I am struggling to understand trips being organised by schools that are only available to those that can afford it, like this one http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=48195 ….. maybe it is my schooling back ground that provides a somewhat different perspective to most (if not you) on Snowheads. Which school did you go to btw? mine was Penlan Comp
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Should we encourage our children to undertake healthy pursuits ie winter sports--yes
Will a holiday abroad in the mountains broaden our childrens' horizons-- yes
Wouldn't it be nice if all children rich or poor could have the oportunity of going on such a holiday--yes
Will this happen--no
Does this mean that school ski trips should be banned--not on your nelly!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| richmond, perhaps a trip that is within the financial means of the majority rather than the minority maybe would be a good way of deciding whether a trip is appropriate ? and perhaps one with some educational bias ? |
The thing that I find interesting is that the people who you would think are least able to afford these things, are often the people who will make the sacrifices to give their kids the opportunity. When I look at the kids that express an interest in the trips that I run, it is rarely the ones from low income families who tell me that they can't afford it. Usually the ones who claim poverty, are the ones who can afford the £120 pair of trainers and the iphone and the multiple football shirts. It's all about choices. I accept that there will be some people who genuinely cannot afford things, but often it is about how much you prioritise something.
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Elizabeth B, if the trip was more affordable I could understand it, and we see so many adverts for cheap ski trips etc, but how does one afford an average of £800 for a school holiday, plus spending money, plus ski gear? If I was going on a school rugby or football tour we would have raffles and fund raisers to pay for the bulk of it, and then the parents would have to pay the remainder
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I have no problem with money being raised to help those who wish to go but cant afford it, in a similar vein to burseries and scholarships to those attending fee paying schools that cant afford it. And if it is to be a lottery to chose those who wish to go so be it. However, what is so wrong in parents who can afford it paying for their kids to go on such trips. Yes they are lucky little bleeders and they are seen as luxury holidays but I prefer to spend my hard earned on a ski holiday rather than a week in the summer baking by a pool.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Rowley B QC, If you need to ask that question then you would not understand the answer 
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The £800 for one child going on a school trip often means that no-one else in the family can go. Very little spending money is needed (often less than £10) and the gear can be begged, or borrowed. They, unlike RBQC, can not afford for everyone in the family to go, but will make a sacrifice elsewhere for each child, perhaps in turn, to have an adventure.
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FAQ
