 Poster: A snowHead
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sharon1953, True once you get to the very expensive designer gear. But if you take a material like Goretex Proshell (which is undeniably excellent) it's hard to find a jacket made from it that costs less than a couple of hundred quid retail. Now you might not need Goretex Proshell, but it is the best material regardless and not just clever marketing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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uktrailmonster, spot on.
I've found quite a lot of the technical ski kit sees large reductions throughout the Summer months. For instance, when Goretex revised all their membranes last year there were silly reductions on everything right up to Arc'Teryx and the like. Problem is, most of the more technical stuff is perennial and not just dedicated to skiing so doesn't see reductions like the more fashionabl/seasonable stuff
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If anyone can be bothered, quality gear can be sniffed out at reasonable prices. Our 4 kids all wear decent stuff which has been sourced from the likes of Ebay, TKMaxx or online abroad. We're not skint, but there's a limit and I like a bargain.
Another point which hasn't been made is the quality brands retain good residual value when flogged off on Ebay. My 3yo Dainese jacket made £125 last week. OK, it cost considerably more than that, but still a good sum.
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I have always gone for the get what you pay for thing, but more recently (I must be getting old) I think you are deffo paying for the name. S&R for example have a bit of a captured audience with a lack of ski shops around and lure in the first time skiers making them think they should be spending the best part of £200 pounds on a jacket. I think TK Maxx is great for gear & if your lucky you can get great brands for bargain prices, they are just last seasons styles. The few TK's dotted around Bristol have had some nice Nike ACG jackets in nice neutral colours and some nice looking Scott stuff. A couple of my friends have D2B jackets too, and they never complain of being cold or wet. I have to say the only thing i'm looking at when I'm cruising down the slopes is where i'm going. Not at the tiny logos on peoples jackets etc.
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I have had 2 dare2b jackets.
Both have lasted very little time on the mountain before stitching started to come loose. (mainly around the pockets)
They are not really very breathable and I seem to end up sweaty on cold days even with just one base layer.
Used it once on a rainy day last jan (vallandry) and it was ok in the rain.
I seemed to be able to wash them at 30deg without losing any waterproofness - which can be an advantage.
Im hoping my new jacket will be much better (grovestar).
Tux
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uktrailmonster, Development and research is costly, but once the fabric goes into production, costs reduce, especially when labour is sourced outside of the UK. Then other manufacturers copy the fabric, call it something else, and hey presto, a cheaper jacket with similar, if not identical technical spec. To stay ahead, new fabrics, with new names are created, but the fabric often does no more than the previous one, only perhaps it now reflects light, or weighs less etc. Of course there have been major developments in last 20 years with regard to fabrics for skiing jackets, often as a spin-off from something else. You can now get Goretex in some of the cheapest garments on the market, (including ski gloves for £9.99)years ago, it was the must have name, and it was expensive, now I assume it's Goretex 'Proshell', in 4 years it will be something else we all must have to stay warm and dry !!!! and so the spin goes on! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
| now I assume it's Goretex 'Proshell', in 4 years it will be something else we all must have to stay warm and dry !!!! and so the spin goes on! |
The difference in wearability between ProShell and its predecessor, Goretex XCR, is really quite marked. I've got the same jacket in the two different fabrics and the newer fabric is much nicer to wear.
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i have D2b Pants,
used on 3 ski holidays and no of time at Chill factore. they do the job keep me warm and dry !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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God, the stress! I'm stressed that I'm still wearing a 15 yo fartbag, thus incurring the scorn of thousands, but even more stressed at the thought of the minefield I'll have to negotiate, in the not-too-distant future, in order to buy a new outside layer. I'm thinking of taking up knitting, instead of skiing. 
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
| You can now get Goretex in some of the cheapest garments on the market, (including ski gloves for £9.99)years ago, it was the must have name, and it was expensive, now I assume it's Goretex 'Proshell', in 4 years it will be something else we all must have to stay warm and dry !!!! and so the spin goes on! |
Proshell is quite a big improvement over the previous XCR, which to be honest was a nice surprise. I have jackets made from both materials. I'm not aware of any cheap Goretex copies that are as good. Some of the other cheaper Goretex options are not as good either. I've found Paclite in particular to be quite disappointing, although it is made for a specific purpose. If you think Goretex is just marketing then fine. But all my other non-Goretex jackets get wet after the initial coating wears off. Also worth noting that some Goretex jackets are constructed far better than others. I just look at them closely and make my own mind up if they're worth the money. The Marmot shell jacket I linked to above is superb and great value at £150 (RRP was £300)
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle, what brand of needles would you go for? Careful, some are very naff
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wool is a total minefield - please take expert advice before you commit yourself to something cheap and nasty that will fall apart at the first wash
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Poster: A snowHead
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uktrailmonster, I find Patagonia's proprietary waterproof/breathable material at least as good as gore-tex and eVent gets very good reviews too. this isn't to say goretex is bad, and the similarly good alternatives aren't exactly cheap
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've had a cheap Dare2be jacket for a couple of years which I got in a sale and was happy with the cost at the time. Its done two ski weeks and two UK winters but I'm replacing it this year because:
Although it's waterproof in that it kept me dry in the rain, including skiing in the rain, the outer shell still felt damp next day. Some of the outer shell has frayed on one shoulder (maybe from the rucksack strap), the lining has dropped slightly lower than the outer shell and although I'm by no means a fashion or label victim, it is beginning to look and feel a bit limp and scruffy. I got a Brugi (never heard of them before) jacket this year in Tkmaxx and it was the same price as the Dare2be two years ago and I reckon it has a better feel to it.
The Brugi performed very well at MK 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think I need a generous fellow SH to act as a "personal shopper" and take me shopping and pay the bill for me, then I know I'll have the right gear and won't need to worry about the price! Any volunteers?
Ok, then I will stick to TK Maxx etc and base my purchases on whether or not it has a good enough spec to be warm/dry, fits and seems to look ok, has a reasonable set of pockets that suit the stuff I want to stick in them and has a price tag I can afford at the time.
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Butterfly, you didn't really give anyone much of a chance to volunteer... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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red 27, you mean someone might.........? 
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You never know........Just be sure its not Stevie Wonder.
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| Arno wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, I find Patagonia's proprietary waterproof/breathable material at least as good as gore-tex and eVent gets very good reviews too. this isn't to say goretex is bad, and the similarly good alternatives aren't exactly cheap |
Agreed, that's why I used the word "cheap" copies. I count other relatively expensive proprietary materials as alternatives rather than copies.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All this talk has got me thinking 'is my Dare2be still waterproof after nearly three years use and umpteen washes' so I thought I'd give it a test.
See http://www.19x.co.uk/dare2B-testfacility.jpg
Question is, is 1/2 hour rotating under a power shower at full pelt a fair test? It was slightly damp just inside the main zip, and the vent I left unzipped leaked too. Two hours later, the outside is still definitely wet to the touch.
So it failed and I'll look for a new one, Any comments as to the 'fairness' of the test?
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red 27, My wife puts style as her top priority, although she is aware of the benefits of a good quality technical jacket. The end result is a very expensive taste in ski jackets!! 
On the other hand she works very hard, doesn't waste money on tat and lives for her ski trips. So I don't mind her spending whatever she feels likes on ski gear.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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allanm, A plastic bag is fully waterproof. The trick is to be waterproof and breathable at the same time. Wearing is the only true test.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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uktrailmonster, I know it's breathable - having used it so long, but don't know if it's still waterproof. Personally, I do try to stay out of the rain, when I can.
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allanm,
Im not normally an advocate of animal testing, but he seems to have smile on his face 
Could have given him a shower cap tho:P
Tux
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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the ice perv, Nice piece of reverse snobbery there. This is a ski equipment forum, what did you expect?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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allanm, I was always told that washing breathable fabric in fabric softeners blocked the weave, rendering the fabric from being breathable, and normal washing powder/liquid can destroy the waterproofing, so have always used the recommended NIKWAX loft tech wash. Which is supposed to revitalise the waterproofing? I know my Icebreaker vest specifies not to use fabric softener either, as it reduces the “wicking” properties.
Taped seams have a piece of rubber glued/welded to the back of the seams to stop water entering through the stitch holes, sometimes the tape has not been placed centrally over the seam so doesn’t work properly, or with repeated washing, it starts to come un-glued, perhaps this is what has happened. One would hope that more expensive jackets use better glue/welding, stronger stitching, and tougher fabrics, but to be honest, even though I demand to be warm and dry, I don’t want to ski in the same jacket for the next 10 years however good it is, I would rather go for a quality garment, but lower end price, and change it every 3 years – and that’s the girly bit for which I make no apologies!
the ice perv, that really made me laugh, thank you 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| the ice perv wrote: |
I've just come back to this thread, can't believe it is still going! I think I have a solution to all these arguments:-
Snowheads should set up a new forum section called "Hardcore" where the navel-gazers can get obsessive about how much money and how many 1000s of mm waterproofing constitutes a proper ski jacket, and then they can all buy one and quietly nod at each other in the ski lift, safe in the knowledge that they are "hardcore" and superior to the rest of us. This brotherhood can also endlessly discuss what isotonic drink they should have in their oh-so-essential camelbacks to give them that last % of perfomance while dancing to the oompah music in austrian umbrella bars. And bore anyone who will listen about how much vertical they have done on their altimeter-equipped super-watches. Which also double as electronic ski passes - WOW COOL!
The rest of us can stew in the remainder of Snowheads, which could be relabelled "Punter", talking about what fun is to be had in the mountains, helping newbies out with genuine first-hand advice (without making them feel stupid), and feel secure in the knowledge we don't need to buy the latest gear every winter to get laid or feel better about ourselves. Oh yeah and what's in our hip flasks! (Best thread for ages, so much more interesting than this one......)
Enjoy the season folks! And pray there are more "punters" than "hardcore" in that chalet you've booked........  |
I think that you are slightly confused Pervy old son, Having enough spare cash to be able to afford a decent jacket doesn't turn you into a boring Tw*t. In fact, the oposite may possibly true in your case. I'd have absolutely no interest in discussing any of my kit with anyone be them wearing a flourescent fartbag or whatever crap you may prefer to wear.
As for punter v hardcore? WTF are you going on about?!! Do I need a cheap jacket to be a decent bloke able to make interesting conversation and crack a joke?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sharon1953, Thanks for the comments and information. On reflection however, I'm beginning to think that the test environment design was seriously flawed and the damp zip was due to water ingress somewhere between Rover's nose and the very top of the zip. I should probably have put a cap/hat/hood on him as tuxpoo recommended.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| Do I need a cheap jacket to be a decent bloke able to make interesting conversation and crack a joke? |
It would appear so! Now I think a complete novice sporting a pair of brand spanking top of the range £500 skis might look like a bit of a tw@. But a quality (and possibly quite expensive) jacket is just down to personal preference and budget. For me it's a comfort thing and nothing to do with ability or looking trendy.
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Mollerski,
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Do I need a cheap jacket to be a decent bloke able to make interesting conversation and crack a joke?
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If that's what it takes, please do go and buy one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My view is that there is no real need to wear "punter kit" if for the same price you can buy decent stuff. I have a Patagucci jacket for walking & commuting that cost under £50 and recently have seen very respectable Marmot kit in TKmaxx for around the same price.
Nothing wrong with Regatta, dare2be etc but looking at design quality & you needn't necessarily pay much more for something that functions better. Besides if I was going to buy their kit I'd just as soon buy better designed Decathlon stuff for the same price.
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FAQ
