 Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN, ok thanks that is a reliefe. WE normally practise with all three and my friend who lives with us has one too. we have never had a problem with range but i will check it.
thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowangel., I think you could probably get 3 for around £450 but I totally take your point. How often do you go skiing?
GrahamN, or others, on the subject of the Pulse. Do you find it picks up mobile phones as interference? Actually any digital transceiver model in search mode for that matter... What if someone is wearing a transceiver and has a mobile in their pocket - high chance of that occurring on the slopes !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GordonFreeman, every day! i live in serre chevalier, i ride mainly off piste too, oh and i'm hopeless at skiing i'm from the darkside 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| GordonFreeman wrote: |
| GrahamN, or others, on the subject of the Pulse. Do you find it picks up mobile phones as interference? |
Yes, I've found phones have registered as a signal at about 45m distance, with wildly varying location. I think it's just when the phone sends its ident. It's a shame this does happen, as one of the benefits of this unit (when not getting any interference) is that it's got fantastic range - I've got fixes on transmitters at nearly 60m distance, i.e. way more than Trackers or M2s in the same group. This is the only downside I've found with it so far, but don't yet have enough experience with is to see how much of an inconvenience it really is. Again, you can distinguish whether it's a real signal by listening for the analogue beep - although at 45m the analogue signal is pretty faint (using the earpiece does help there).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowangel.,
On the subject of F1s and while I must declare an interest as I have one - there are an awful lot of European guides who seem to use them (despite presumably cheap deals on digital beacons). I guess this is becaus ethey are experts inb how to use them and they like the extra range.
I'd only seriously worry if it tangibly lost performance or Orthovox stopped supporting my particular year.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, ok cool thanks
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GrahamN, can you actually track a phone? I presume not as the signal is not sent out in the same format. So what happens if a phone is next to a transceiver, i.e. on the same person?
I presume on the pulse you can discard a signal and that the analogue beep is picked up even when using digital mode?
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GordonFreeman, 1) as I said above, the phone appears as a non-directional signal, at a pretty constant distance, so cannot be tracked.
2) Once you have a real signal at closer range that takes preference. The issue comes when trying to lock on at higher distances, and as I say I've not really investigated how serious a problem that is yet.
3) Yes the analogue beep is picked up in digital mode. This is replaced by a synthesised signal with beep rate increasing as distance decreases when you're in final stage search (<3m). You can very easily force it into pure analogue mode if you really want to, but that pinpoint mode works so well I doubt you'd need to (although it's nice to know you can).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So, when you ski with beacons you turn off everything else?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| GordonFreeman wrote: |
| So, when you ski with beacons you turn off everything else? |
Yes it's an absolute must that mobiles should be switched off.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| GordonFreeman wrote: |
| So, when you ski with beacons you turn off everything else? |
Yes it's an absolute must that mobiles should be switched off. |
Do you have a quantifiable data source for that statement?
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brian
brian
Guest
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snowbunny, it's stated in the instruction booklet that came with my tracker dts.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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brian, in my BCA booklet it says not to place mobile phones within 6" of the tracker when searching.. i was with a mountain guide and his view was that leave phones turned but placed away from transceiver.
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brian
brian
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skimottaret, just checked (at home today). You're right but it also says, "turn all electrical equipment off if possible" (bottom of page 9).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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brian, one thing the guide said in passing was that the Recco finding machines the pisteures have can sense a mobile phone and if buried might help being found... he also felt that with the more modern beacons that arent too affected by mobile signals being able to contact a lost skier that got seperated outweighed the risk of minor probs with searches as long as phones and beacons are kept seperated.
our right but I think the turn off all electrical is more a a liability type statement...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So, from the replies, it would seem that it's a mfrs liability statement and that no measurements of the effects are available for adding as a link. Additionally, only one model of a particular brand, the BCA Tracker, seems to be under debate. Seems that it's quite a way from being "an absolute must" at the moment, considering all the brands and models available to use as transceivers.
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brian
brian
Guest
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brian
brian
Guest
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... and an auto-translation of the advice from the Swiss Federal Avalanche Institute (I don't do German but LVS is Avalanche search equipment, ie. a transceiver):
"There have been reports that mobile phone signals, while searching with Beep as weak tones received - really investigated the matter but is not.
The recommendation is therefore (including manufacturers LVS) while searching the phone off, to make absolutely certain interactions. . During normal operation should send you the phone is not prudent to bear on the same site as the LVS."
Original German:
"Es gibt Erfahrungsberichte, wonach Handys Signale aussenden, die beim Suchen mit Pieps als schwache Töne empfangen werden - wirklich untersucht ist die Sache aber nicht.
Die Empfehlung ist deshalb (auch von LVS-Herstellern) beim Suchen das Handy auszuschalten, um ganz sicher Interaktionen zu vermeiden. Beim normalen Sende-Betrieb sollte man das Handy vorsichtshalber nicht am gleichen Ort tragen wie das LVS. "
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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brian, Thanks. Those 2 external links are interesting. so it would seem that it's good practice to separate phone and transceiver apart when skiing. When searching, switch off the mobile as a precaution especially if you have an Ortovox M1 or ARVA 9000.
In December last wearing an analogue transceiver, I skied directly towards a BCA Tracker set to search. The Tracker appeared to jump a flux line when I got close, and some discussion took place afterwards as to the possibility of my mobile phones confusing the Tracker. Tried to replicate the conditions to establish possible interference but could'nt achieve the same, just a flux line!
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brian
brian
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| so it would seem that it's good practice to separate phone and transceiver apart when skiing. When searching, switch off the mobile as a precaution |
Yep, that sounds like a good summary to me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| wearing an analogue transceiver, I skied directly towards a BCA Tracker set to search.... |
That of course is a completely artificial situation, and is really only a "group check" activity. The realistic scenario is a stationary transmitter and mobile searcher. The Pulse does get confused if the "victim" (i.e. you in this scenario) moves about. In the analogue domain it's true that the scenarios are symmetric, but the Pulse has an internal compass and motion detector, so I think it's pretty cute about working out when changes are due to its own moving about (probably something to do with the multiple burial identification). Like several other designs, the Pulse has a special (short range) search mode for "group check".
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GrahamN, I've seen pics of the Pulse with it's lanyard loop but does it come with a harness? If so have you a pic?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, yes, holster and harness. Unlike some of the others that seem to sit naturally at the side, this sits most naturally in the middle of the stomach. No picture at present, but I may be able to generate one (but not just yet).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Be sure to get the beer belly in there
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GrahamN, With specific reference to the Pulse but I guess in general too...
In practical scenarios, at least one person is going to have to leave their mobile phone on...likely the person who has contacted and needs to be contactable by the rescue services.
In an alone search scenario, this will be you, so what do you do?
If more people are around it can be someone else, so the question here is, how do you distinguish the phone from the real transceiver(s)? Do you have to move about a bit and view the distance indicators?
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 7-02-08 18:01; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| spyderjon, yes, holster and harness. Unlike some of the others that seem to sit naturally at the side, this sits most naturally in the middle of the stomach. |
I find it most comfortable there as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| GordonFreeman wrote: |
GrahamN, With specific reference to the Pulse but I guess in general too...
In practical scenarios, at least one person is going to have to leave their mobile phone on...likely the person who has contacted and needs to be contactable by the rescue services.
In an alone search scenario, this will be you, so what do you do?
If more people are around it can be someone else, so the question here is, how do you distinguish the phone from the real transceiver(s)? Do you have to move about a bit and view the distance indicators? |
Don't know the full protocol here but my experience with phones in the mountains tells me not to waste precious search minutes looking for a phone network, dialling, describing where the slide is (if I can describe it accurately) etc
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Poster: A snowHead
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Okay, say it was near a piste or something like that. I would expect someone to phone the mountain rescue while you looked. They would have to keep their phone on.
I know I'm describing hypotheticals here but it is a possible situation and the phone will interfere with some transceivers or be picked up as a burial.
I actually think the only way to do this is to practice and actually have a phone on nearby but not on the actual searcher.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Apologies if this sounds trivial,one issue that has confused "practice searches" I have done more than phones, ipods etc, is beacons of persons not buried still being set to transmit. These might be people on nearby lifts passing skiers or muppets not really knowing their kit or lacking discipline.
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FAQ
