 Poster: A snowHead
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Hmm. I have found powder traces too much of a fiddle - and of course in Europe there are often occasions during the skiing day when one has to take off skis (riding a cable car, for a start). And yet there have been times when I have spent too long looking for a lost ski. I like Bernard_C's approach. He skis gnarly, yet he has powder traces. I'll have a think about his method of stowing them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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boredsurfin, Leashes are for Dogs. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If leashes are for dogs, then try a metal detector. The shovel is another mandatory piece of off-piste kit, as shown. As for the dogs (not shown in photo) take them along too for a rapid avalanche response.
"Left a bit, Bernie" "Why didn't the idiot use leashes? I've had it, carrying all this crap around."
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| "Left a bit, Bernie" "Why didn't the idiot use leashes? I've had it, carrying all this crap around." |
"Yeah, we could find his body as well, as the flailing skis would have knocked him uncontentious"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| redrunmarcus wrote: |
| Does anyone know where I can get some powder ribbons ? |
Anywhere that sells skis. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Got some very pretty yellow ones at Sno and Rock Chill Factor e 
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BernardC, I am interested in your keeping up the leg idea do you velcro to inside of ski pants?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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redrunmarcus, ... yes I have a velcro pad in the middle of the ribbon. (The ribbons are effectively twice the length of the bib ski pants.)
I fold the ribbon in half and the velcro attaches to the top of my bib type ski pants. One hanging end of the ribbon has the nylon snap-hook which attaches to the pants boot zip. The other hanging end also has a velcro pad, which attaches to the inside of the pants leg.
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| redrunmarcus wrote: |
| BernardC, I am interested in your keeping up the leg idea do you velcro to inside of ski pants? |
As I see myself as the Mum that has to do this velcro to my son's ski trousers, I'd like a fuller description of the technique.
Also rather than looping the traces ontoto the binding has anyone developed a 'quick to unhook' version of fixing?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BernardC, you answered the question before I asked, Thanks
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| BernardC wrote: |
redrunmarcus, ... yes I have a velcro pad in the middle of the ribbon. (The ribbons are effectively twice the length of the bib ski pants.)
I fold the ribbon in half and the velcro attaches to the top of my bib type ski pants. One hanging end of the ribbon has the nylon snap-hook which attaches to the pants boot zip. The other hanging end also has a velcro pad, which attaches to the inside of the pants leg. |
This sounds like both ends are attached to you, with one end (the velcro one) that will pull off. I thought one end should attach to the ski 
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I'm assuming that the nylon snap-hook is attached to binding, when required!
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You know it makes sense.
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alex_heney, ... janette, ... sorry ..... the 'first' part of my post was on I think page 1 of this Thread ... yes the nylon snap hook is removed from the boot zip and fixed to the ski binding just in advance of skiing over all that 3m deep powder .....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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BernardC, Thanks, that makes sense now.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| PJSki wrote: |
Powder cords are unnecessary. In nearly all cases and in nearly all types of 'powder' the ski will just stop when you become detached from it. Merely work your way back up the line of your fall to where your track ends, seeping with your pole as you go. If there are other people there who don't know what they are doing, tell them not to 'help' as they will just trample on the 'evidence' and probably force the ski further down into the snowpack.
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I disagree. Recently a guy I was skiing with lost his ski in powder about 2 feet deep with about another foot of harder snow under that. Obviously we tried to work out where he came off and where the ski went, but it is not as simple as you suggest.
Firstly, the point where he stumbled, the point where the ski popped off and the point where he eventually landed are not all in the same place.
Also, we don't know which way the mysterious ski was pointing when it snapped off or how fast it was going.
If he had caught an edge, then the ski could have swung off in either direction.
If the ski was going fast when it detached, it might have been steered in an arc through the snow by it's own curvature.
Obviously the skier can't work out what angles his legs were at, because a hard crash is usually just a painful, snowy blur.
The search lasted for 45 minutes. I dug a narrow, systematic trench across the slope in the hope that I would eventually hit the ski side-on.
One of my friends dug a really big hole with his new snow shovel, but to no avail. In the end, the owner of the ski found it just by poking around with his pole and it was not where we expected it to be.
We lost nearly an hour of action in fantastic snow conditions on the first day of our trip, but that could have been avoided with a simple set of powder tracers. I am fairly new to powder skiing, but next time I think will make myself a set with some colourful cord.
I like the idea of a mini carabina to clip onto the skis.
I was thinking, rather than stuff the tracer up your trousers each time, how about coiling it up and using a small amount of gaffer tap to attach the coil to the back of the ski boots. That way, when you fall off, the tape will come off your boots and tracer will do it's work, but you won't have the hassle of it falling out during normal skiing. Also, you would be able to take your boots off and leave the tracers taped to them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They're really useful when you have the wrong size snow chains
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GeorgeJ, well done on resuscitating a 3 year dead thread... 
They are a faff though. I would think there are better ways of designing them. I gave up on them years ago. I've never had difficult finding a ski, never taken more than a few minutes. I tend to use the other ski to slash diagonal cuts into the slow heading upwards. I have permanently lost a pole in powder though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| GeorgeJ wrote: |
I disagree. |
Ok,
| Quote: |
| I am fairly new to powder skiing |
I though as much.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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haha yes I didn't even realise the thread was that old until I had posted, I was just searching for some more information on these things.
As for PJSki, just because I haven't had that much experience in powder doesn't mean that I'm an idiot. I do have experience of falls in powder and from that experience I can say that the ski did not stop straight away, the fall does not happen in one precise point on the slope but in a several-meter-long line down the slope, and it is not possible to tell where in the fall the ski came off, let alone the angle it was at when this happened. Therefore, with variables in speed, direction, and starting point for the ski's solo journey under the pow, there is quite a large area in which it can end up.
I can't believe I had to explain that to you twice.
But actually you've had this explained a lot more than twice; looking back through this thread, a lot of other members disagreed with your opinion based on their own experience and for the same reasons as I do.
Maybe you're right, maybe for gods of skiing like yourself the laws of physics don't apply.
My more realistic theory is that you either do not ski in particularly deep snow or you ski incredibly slowly or you are just incredibly stubborn and deny all the evidence that is placed in front because you don't want to admit you're wrong. Like the pope who tries not to think about the proven scientific fact that is replacing his medieval religion - but even he recently admitted that condoms aren't that bad. Can you find it in your heart to accept that your fellow skiers are neither fools nor liars for claiming to have had a hard time finding skis that have slid under the snow?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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GeorgeJ, well actually PJSki is a very good powder skier. And someone who has spent a lot of time helping people find skis.
And when you stray further afield you will see that very few good skiers use powder traces.
Given how cheap they are - do you think there might be a reason for this?
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They are probably cheap because it so easy to make your own version at home - if they were more expensive then they wouldn't sell.
Obviously the material and shipping costs are low.
I understand that some people find them frustrating, but I am thinking about how I can make some for myself that will give me less hassle.
I am sure that PJSki is a perfectly competent skier, but being good at skiing does not make you a human metal detector, nor does it give you the right to arrogantly claim that it is easy to find a ski in deep snow, when many people on here who are probably perfectly good at skiing have challenged him and given very good reasoning for their arguments.
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GeorgeJ,
| Quote: |
| As for PJSki, just because I haven't had that much experience in powder doesn't mean that I'm an idiot. |
I never said that. This is a boring old debate that I've had too many times. You carry on using tracers. They're probably a good idea if you keep falling over anyway. Ultimately, though, you will probably find that they are a pain in the ass and that you don't really need them. This is the conclusion that most people seem to come to.
| GeorgeJ wrote: |
I am sure that PJSki is a perfectly competent skier, but being good at skiing does not make you a human metal detector, nor does it give you the right to arrogantly claim that it is easy to find a ski in deep snow, when many people on here who are probably perfectly good at skiing have challenged him and given very good reasoning for their arguments. |
I spent a week in December picking up people who had fallen over and popped out of one or both skis in powder. None of them had tracers, yet we found all the skis in no time at all. If they'd had tracers on I wouldn't have found the skis any faster but I'd have had the extra job of sorting out the tracers every time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I clicked on this to have a look only to find I started it............  I still use mine..........sometimes .......they are a bit of a pain
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I do have a couple but have never actually used them. I would though if it's thigh deep powder time as swishing with the poles may hook a trace. I've had to search for about 10 minutes to find a ski before now but the crash wasn't particularly high speed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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PJSki, My friend Henri is an outstanding skier.
Ex national squad racer when in his teens, now ainstructor and race coach.
The best skier of his age I have ever seen.
Skiing powder in Verbier (Col de Mines) before Christmas he lost a ski....you see, even a fantastic skier can have one-of-those-moments.
He spent 4 HOURS looking in thigh to waist deep powder.
In the end his father skinned up to him with another pair of skis so he could get down.
The next day they returned and after another 2 HOURS found the ski.
That evening he also bought some Powder Traces.
With Powder Traces I have never had to look for a ski for more than about 10 seconds.
Seems worth a bit of legcuff stuffing two or three times a day.
As a postscript.....those skis were stolen from his ski locker that night 
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wot rungsp said. I have also spent more than an hour looking for a ski. My mate Barry had to wait until the summer till he retrieved the ski he lost off the back of Rendl! Traces are a PITA, but searching for skis is a much bigger PITA!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Traces are a PITA, but searching for skis is a much bigger PITA!
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Quite. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rungsp wrote: |
PJSki, My friend Henri is an outstanding skier.
Ex national squad racer when in his teens, now ainstructor and race coach.
The best skier of his age I have ever seen.
Skiing powder in Verbier (Col de Mines) before Christmas he lost a ski....you see, even a fantastic skier can have one-of-those-moments.
He spent 4 HOURS looking in thigh to waist deep powder.
In the end his father skinned up to him with another pair of skis so he could get down.
The next day they returned and after another 2 HOURS found the ski.
That evening he also bought some Powder Traces.
With Powder Traces I have never had to look for a ski for more than about 10 seconds.
Seems worth a bit of legcuff stuffing two or three times a day.
As a postscript.....those skis were stolen from his ski locker that night |
According that cnut Goldsmith: 'My experience of skiing powder with other skiers has shown that in 99.999% of cases, lost skis have behaved like torpedoes.'
Not sure how you find a ski via a 2m tracer if it's shot off under the snow pack for a long distance. The fact is that 99.999% of the time, your skis stop right where you came out of them. On the rare occasions when that doesn't happen and they carry on down the hill and out of sight, a mere 2m tracer won't be any help. But, whatever, I want you boys to carry on faffing with tracers for the rest of your skiing lives.
The other item you could employ is a tether. A great way to get your own ski to injure you in a fall. Second thoughts, I want you boys to use tethers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I broadly agree PJSki that the faff-factor tends to outweigh the time taken to find a ski.
I do, though, carry some in my off-piste pack for the rare occasions when I'm skiing really deep conditions and the consequence of not finding a ski is going to be highly unpleasant.
The ones I have, which are from a heli-skiing trip where they were mandatory, came with a strap that you wear outside your ski pants just above the boot cuff. The loop the trace up through the strap, which removes much of the faffing.
The problem is, of course, that you look like a skiing Morris dancer when you use them. And that ain't good. Which is another good reason to only use them in "wilderness", where none can see you...
I generally find that, if I can't find a ski, then it's because actually further up the hill than I thought I'd parted company with it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote]I broadly agree PJSki that the faff-factor tends to outweigh the time taken to find a ski.
I do, though, carry some in my off-piste pack for the rare occasions when I'm skiing really deep conditions and the consequence of not finding a ski is going to be highly unpleasant.
The ones I have, which are from a heli-skiing trip where they were mandatory, came with a strap that you wear outside your ski pants just above the boot cuff. The loop the trace up through the strap, which removes much of the faffing.
The problem is, of course, that you look like a skiing Morris dancer when you use them. And that ain't good. Which is another good reason to only use them in "wilderness", where none can see you...
I found this thread in a search for Powder Ribbons and had to reply. I created a new and highly innovative type of Powder Ribbon that completely eliminates the "faff-factor". Pow Tales - are designed to "live" on your ski boot, and are easy to engage and disengage. If you're riding trams or gondolas or Cat or Heli-skiing, there is no punishment factor for using them. They can't be forgotten because they are always there, ready to use when you need them. There is no goofy Morris dancer look either. Check 'em out at powtales.com.
[/url]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="thebobski"]
| Quote: |
I broadly agree PJSki that the faff-factor tends to outweigh the time taken to find a ski.
I do, though, carry some in my off-piste pack for the rare occasions when I'm skiing really deep conditions and the consequence of not finding a ski is going to be highly unpleasant.
The ones I have, which are from a heli-skiing trip where they were mandatory, came with a strap that you wear outside your ski pants just above the boot cuff. The loop the trace up through the strap, which removes much of the faffing.
The problem is, of course, that you look like a skiing Morris dancer when you use them. And that ain't good. Which is another good reason to only use them in "wilderness", where none can see you...
I found this thread in a search for Powder Ribbons and had to reply. I created a new and highly innovative type of Powder Ribbon that completely eliminates the "faff-factor". Pow Tales - are designed to "live" on your ski boot, and are easy to engage and disengage. If you're riding trams or gondolas or Cat or Heli-skiing, there is no punishment factor for using them. They can't be forgotten because they are always there, ready to use when you need them. There is no goofy Morris dancer look either. Check 'em out at powtales.com.
[/url] |
Send me a pair and I'll review them for you for free.
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There's a neat USA product that I came across: http://skiretriever.com/
This uses mini transceivers and a thingy to locate lost skis
Looks good - makes powder ribbons look so 20th Century!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It looks identical, and it must be the same product in a different package. Perhaps it will turn up lost keys at same time as lost skis?
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These 21st century devices look very good, providing the vibration from skiing hard pack doesn't whack out the electronics. Of course they are a bit spendy at $160-$170. Pow Tales are priced at $19.95 usd and I don't think there are any skiers who can't afford that. http://powtales.com 
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FAQ
, which then took the best part of half an hour to locate - eventually with an avalanche probe about three feet down and about 20 metres form the place he swore he lost his ski ... 
