 Poster: A snowHead
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Tim Brown, I'm afraid that something isn't true just because you say it is. And I do not need your advice on forming my own opinion of David Goldsmith, or rather of the views which he expresses on this and the Ski Club forum.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, quite right. It's my opinion of Goldsmith based on what he has written. Others may have a different view. But you did ask the question 'why?'
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 10-06-07 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Any apparent cheapness of air travel is a result of tax-free aircraft fuel etc. and airlines not being taxed to finance extraction of CO2 from the atmosphere. |
Airlines to have to pay passenger departure tax. And any apparently modest rail fare cost is subsidized by massive state subsidy, or massive private loss. According to the House of Commons Select Committee on Transport public funding of the UK rail network was about £3.7 billion, in FY 2005/2006. Eurotunnel had debts of £6.2billion according to the BBC. I'm finding French figures hard to find - but the same select committee report says:
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| ..we do not argue for French levels of railway subsidy.. |
So it appears that French railways are running at an even greater loss than ours.
One could say that far from the airlines being at an advantage, they face unfair competition from railways because they are allowed to run at substantial losses.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I suggest we all go on a little heli-ski trip together and discuss all the issues mano a mano.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Provocative as always, Swiller. I'm perfectly happy with this mission, provided it's solar-powered. Kick off with the Cairnboos and Nevishees - the Sydney Morning Herald says you can heli-ski in "most parts of Europe". I know an interesting hill above Lewes, too.
Strangely, I have it on record that the only snow ever to settle on Sydney fell on 28 June 1836, six months before the Lewes Avalanche. And the source is ... the Sydney Morning Herald.
Maybe what actually fell were cats and dogs, or dogs and ducks.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tim Brown, for a member of a club to say they've met 20 other members but doesn't name any of them or say where or when it was ... strikes me as slightly peculiar.
It's unpleasant, though, that you use the freedom of the internet to level personal attacks at people while continuing to hide indefinitely.
Do you understand why some people suspect that your first name isn't Tim and your second name isn't Brown?
Apparently there are several Tim Browns on the SCGB database, so it would be a useful name to borrow in the unlikely event that someone might want to hide their true name.
The day of reckoning is approaching, Tim. You're going to have to break cover sooner or later.
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There is one thing that really bugs me and that is when folks drag up the current skiing status of David Goldsmith.
He has in the not too distant past done more skiing than most of us could shake a stick at.
He is also obviously very passionate about the sport.
I suspect the reason he does not ski is nothing to do with the carbon footprint of the sport.
I cannot see why it is an issue if he skis or not.
He has more knowledge and experience of our wonderful sport than most.
Yes he can be a right PITA when on one of his crusades, and some of his language invites shenanigans but for chuffs sake will folks stop bleating on about his current skiing status.
Oh BTW Tim and David.....get a room.
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Frosty the Snowman, Hear, hear!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
There is one thing that really bugs me and that is when folks drag up the current skiing status of David Goldsmith.
He has in the not too distant past done more skiing than most of us could shake a stick at. |
Well, it depends what you mean by not too distant past, I suspect.
| Quote: |
| He is also obviously very passionate about the sport. |
Passionate? His comments could be construed as trying to undermine it. We are not supposed to fly to North America or the antipodes. Indeed, we are not supposed to fly to Europe. If he were successful in getting that, only the very rich would be able to afford to go skiing, particularly as rail fares would have no competition from the airlines.
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| I suspect the reason he does not ski is nothing to do with the carbon footprint of the sport. |
I am sure you are right.
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I cannot see why it is an issue if he skis or not.
He has more knowledge and experience of our wonderful sport than most.
Yes he can be a right PITA when on one of his crusades, and some of his language invites shenanigans but for chuffs sake will folks stop bleating on about his current skiing status. |
I don't mind if he doesn't ski. He has a wealth of background that is still relevant to general skiing chat. But to pose that he is still skiing, and following his own environmental advice as a practising skier who is, therefore, himself inconvenienced, is a bit rich I think. Also I think he sometimes gives flawed advice based on the notion that he has current authority. So we have to disagree there, Frosty. David is the one who has banged on about transparency. Let's have some transparency about his current skiing status.
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| Quote: |
But to pose that he is still skiing,
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achilles, Sorry but we must disagree on this one too.
Beautiful afternoon up here, best go and light the BBQ 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Goldsmith, day of reckoning! What are you like? 
Frosty the Snowman, David's skiing status matters because he seeks to influence the skiing habits of SCGB members. But he has no empathy with the 'average' skier due to his elevated wealth and Londonised views on travel. His statement about rail 'only' costing him £150-200 proves this point. He makes no provision for a regional skier, on a modest income, who wants to go to the Alps, for example. Seems to me he wants to price the less well off out of the sport.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tim Brown, I see you argument, but dont see the relevance of his skiing status wthin it. He has access to costings like the rest of us.
BTW does anyone know the carbon footprint of building a 1100km high speed rail line?
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Quote: |
But to pose that he is still skiing,
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achilles, Sorry but we must disagree on this one too. .. |
Hmm. Your comment caused me to look 'pose' up. I felt that my post needed editing - and have done so. 'pose' now reads 'give the impression'. Most of us here give the impression that we are still skiing - and our fellow snowheads know that we are.
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You know it makes sense.
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Frosty the Snowman, it's not just the building of it. It has to be maintained as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles, It would make for a great holiday if he did ski though. Good skiing, a few drinks after, and than a mass punch up in the car park  . Sorry but I presumed everyone knew that DG was not currently skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tim Brown, less of a problem in France - since so much of the energy comes from nuclear power. I rather suspect that the need for energy security, and hence nuclear power, is one of the reasons politicians are pushing reduction in carbon emissions. Energy security is vital, but may be a difficult concept to sell as justifying nuclear power to the general public. OTOH, if the public are persuaded that carbon emissions must be reduced, then nuclear power is the only show in town. Problem solved. Another side effect is the ability to raise taxation without much opposition - on a green taxes are good basis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, well, I have met DG personally a couple of times. We didn't have a punch up; I got on rather well with him, I like to think. I have to thank him for a couple of things: he tipped me off about a delightful booklet about Wengen (some of those at the MSB saw it) and he got me researching into bindings - as a result of which I bought my own skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tim Brown, you've made some factual comments today concerning my personal wealth, inheritance etc. As far as I can see it's based on nothing except rubbish.
I imagine that I'm less well off than many or most SCGB members. £150-£200 is a realistic cost of return travel to the Alps, including transfers, so the point I've made about rail travel is perfectly valid.
You'd better get serious about showing your face because this is heading upwards towards correspondence with those in authority in the Club. You can't actually behave like this in public - it's embarrassing to other people and the cumulative effect is defamatory.
I'm reporting this thread to the moderators.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, you've rebutted (if not refuted) Tim Brown's comments. Why not leave it that, rather that all this reporting to "authority" and moderators? It all sounds a bit junior school-ish.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laundryboy, you have a point but I don't particularly want to spend my life rebutting TB. Some people just believe they can carry on chucking mud in the hope that some sticks. I think the moderators should give the guy a slap, personally.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith, are you going to be complaining to my skiing, golf, running, climbing, sailing or motoring club? Either way, none of them have any authority over me here. Actually, having checked my SCGB membership, it seems to have run out! I'll have to renew at some point. Then again, I could resign and cite your harassment of me as the reason why.
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| I imagine that I'm less well off than many or most SCGB members. £150-£200 is a realistic cost of return travel to the Alps, including transfers, so the point I've made about rail travel is perfectly valid. |
It might be from your cosy part of London, but not from other parts of the UK.
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That sounds quite implausible You'll have discovered your membership had lapsed when you tried to log into the club's forum. Since you've not posted there for a couple of months, your third sentence comes across as BS.
When did the membership expire? When did you become a member?
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David Goldsmith, mind your own ******* business!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tim Brown,
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Actually, having checked my SCGB membership, it seems to have run out! I'll have to renew at some point.
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All the same, very kind of you to continue to promote The Club in your signature, even though you are not a member.
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boredsurfin, 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So... does anyone else care what this is all about or am I the only bemused one?
Go take your arguments elsehwre chaps, you're dull.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Luxury Apartments, looking at the hits they are running at 1462 for a thread of about 36 hours, which is quite respectable.
If you want a thread not to be dull, say something that isn't dull, for example:
I'm a leading snowHeads advertiser and I demand quality ski porn, instead of 'two bald men fight over comb'
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Heliskiing rocks.
Nothing beats a trip in a whirlybird on a bluesky day.
The world has been melting for about the past 15k years. Since the end of the Ice Age. Global warming is nothing new.
Keep on flying.
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You know it makes sense.
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David Goldsmith,
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If you want a thread not to be dull, say something that isn't dull
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Good point - somebody alert Darky!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Frosty the Snowman, David Murdoch, It is indeed rather dull, but as long as David continues to advise people to use a length of red string as an avalanche precaution, says he hasn't carried a shovel off piste, and keeps referring to experience teaching in Scotland more than 30 years ago, I think that when he last skied is of - albeit limited - interest. It is perhaps also a lot less painful for someone who no longer skis to be smug about their Carbon footprint and to suggest to others what they should do. As Hurtle has said elsewhere - what does he have to lose by sharing this information?
Hurtle, I think you are confusing "not dull" with "mad". 
Tim Brown, I believe you can get some great free gifts if you join again after your membership has lapsed. I have had a watch (broken) a shoulder bag and a 100yrs History of the club DVD!
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Poster: A snowHead
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stoatsbrother,
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I think you are confusing "not dull" with "mad".
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Nah, it's just that she's been complaining of boredom with other threads, cheeky weird person!
Meanwhile, I'm honestly not interested in whether or not David skis and, if not, why not: I merely suggested that coming clean would put an end to all this whingeing. One can only assume he's a masochist and actually enjoys being berated in this way.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What an odd thread. Tim Brown seems to be convinced that everyone in the world should have access to cheap ski-ing (and environmental costs are irrelevant) and David Goldsmith, is being an ‘international man of mystery’ about his ski-ing status. They do seem to be getting very overexcited about it all though. (It's like that moment in nursery school when everyone is told off for being overexcited and overtired, and made to have a little nap!)
I would say who cares, but apparently I seem to since I’ve read the entire thread to follow the latest development/insult/tantrum, and bothered to post 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nice to know that someone in Oxford finds this interesting to read.
Are you a professor, Helen?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To get back to the original subject of the thread, would it have been more accurate if the Sydney Morning Herald had said "it is now possible to heli-ski in most of the European countries which have mountainous, snow-covered terrain"?
In other words, does anyone know of any other European countries which have banned heli-skiing, apart from France (which to be fair the SMH article did mention)?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Martin. That question occurred to me when I read the piece. I've not heard of outright national bans on heli-skiing in other countries, but it seems to be restricted (presumably with strict regulations on approved landing points) to very few localities.
I've felt for a while that it should just be banned by European law in the EU countries.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith, As Martin Bell refers, It's almost certainly restricted to mountainous, snow covered areas. Not that I'm the most informed but I'm not aware of any other country wide EU restrictions. Of course, you can always get around the French one...anyway...
My understanding is that the French ban is purely political. What I heard was that Someone (Mitterand?) got dropped off at the summit of Mont Blanc by helo and then banned it thereafter cos he got such a political kicking from the greens. So the usual rational thinking in operation there then.
It's a crap (SMH) article though. "This is how it was done long before chairlifts gave people a ride to the top". Hmm, helicopters pre-date chairlifts? Maybe theoretically as I don't recall the poma featuring in Leonardo's codex, but not practically. First Chairlift - 1936, Sun Valley. First "free" helicopter flight was admittedly 1907 but lasted 20 seconds. Not much vertical there. Spooky coincidence, first viable helicopter (per Wikipedia) was 1936 too. Not quite a commercial operation lifting Norwegian woolly jumper sporting strapping lads and lassies to the top to ski though.
"It's not easy to ski powder" - ohhh yes it is. Fat enough skis and anyone can.
And so on...
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Heliskiing rocks.
Nothing beats a trip in a whirlybird on a bluesky day.
The world has been melting for about the past 15k years. Since the end of the Ice Age. Global warming is nothing new.
Keep on flying. |
at last, a voice of sense in the midst of this insanity
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| My understanding is that the French ban is purely political. What I heard was that Someone (Mitterand?) got dropped off at the summit of Mont Blanc by helo and then banned it thereafter cos he got such a political kicking from the greens. So the usual rational thinking in operation there then. |
Valerie Giscard Estaing, I believe. Anselme Baud's Chamonix guide book features a picture of the descent (not that you'd buy if for that alone )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm not quite clear what "purely political" means. The law was imposed (about 30 years ago?) and it's stuck. That's the important thing, and if "purely political" means "gimmick" then how come it's endured?
Let's get away from the cynicism and get away from this concept that the ultimate ski experience has to equate to the maximum air pollution.
Clearly it doesn't.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
I'm not quite clear what "purely political" means. The law was imposed (about 30 years ago?) and it's stuck. That's the important thing, and if "purely political" means "gimmick" then how come it's endured?
Let's get away from the cynicism and get away from this concept that the ultimate ski experience has to equate to the maximum air pollution.
Clearly it doesn't. |
i'm sure the high alpine randonee Chamnonix to Zermatt is much more fun than a heli ski day!
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FAQ
