No smoking?

A snowHead

With all the quotes going on: from memory I think the number actually dying from secondary smoking was 200-300 and about 800 for MRSA. This is only what I vaguely remember, but I was surprised it was so small considering the numbers of people killed by drunk drivers, accidents in the home and so on. I too was expecting 10s of 1000s!

A snowHead

The Guardian today carried a letter claiming 24000 deaths for air pollution, no source for the data though.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ise, that's the Grauniad, so I'd guess what they meant to say was:
24.000 deaths from Hair Solution. snowHead

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I'll go ask, they're right over the road.

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Foxy, are you lacquered up again?

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Since WTFH is follically-challenged up top, was David@traxvax thinking of the famous Max Factor Knacker Laquer, which gives your cluster added lustre.

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It is my understanding that smoking in closed cable cars is forbidden, I've yet to see someone smoking in a packed 40 places tram. Another thing is a chairlift or a ski lift.
But, while I hate the smoke smell, I will not object to smoking, until it's done in the open. I'll simply move upwind from the person in question.
What I object to is the disreputable behaviour of throwing cigarette butts and even empty pack on the snow once finished smoking. Now that I think of it, I object to any kind of littering. I read the ban on smoking on that mountain in that light anyway,am I wrong?

Let me ask a rethorical question: do you know which bar/pub/konditorei is/was the most frequented in my village?
Answer: the one where smoking inside was forbidden (and when they opened, someone told them they wouldn't have survived long, forcing such a ban). As it turned out, the place was and is nearly all the time full. Even known smokers enjoy the clean atmosphere. Smokers simply move out to smoke their cigarette, and then throw the cigarette butts in the ashtrays/wastebins.

After all it is free

Will smoking in public places be banned in Scotland? If so England next.

Chris B, one quality newpaper last weekend carried an article saying John Reid (Minister of Health) is planning to ban smoking in restaurants and offices but NOT in pubs. If secondary smoking is bad for workers' health surely it makes no sense to permit it in pubs which are often the smokiest holes around. Typical Bliar Govt. move to avoid upsetting too many core voters.
Personally, I'd like to see a complete ban on smoking other than in the 'fresh' air and private houses. But then I'm an ex-smoker - and they're the worst (I'm told).

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Lets hope for a ban then.

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So many people in Scotland smoke - far more than when I lived darnn sarf, id love to see them try and enforce it! They cant even stop people smoking on the bus ( well they dont even try!)

So go ahead and ban it- but I doubt we'll notice any real difference!

Would be nice to go out at night, wake up in the morning and not have my hair reeking of smoke!

Nadenoodlee, that's exactly what they said in Ireland ... that it would never work !! But they reckon the compliance rate is now something like over 95% .... and the ban is only in place since last March, not even a year.

Its working really well on the most part ... as I know people who used to smoke when they were having a drink, and now they have practically stopped. And even confirmed smokers seem to smoke less, as the craic in the pub is too good to leave and go outside to smoke ! So in many cases even smokers are "Pro-Smoking Ban".

And it is great now that your clothes and hair don't stink of smoke the morning after !!

You know it makes sense.

I reckon hangovers are much worse if the drinking was done in a smokey atmosphere. Crying or Very sad

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Well, I am a dyed in the wool smoker, so from my perspective.....

I can understand banning smoking indoors, and to some extent in closed lifts (gondola's, cablecars etc), HOWEVER, there are some things in life which you cannot refuse:

Seeing you first child born, passing your driving test, first time lovin' (with a man or a woman, see the gay thread!), and lastly, firing up a cigarette on a chairlift on the first day of your holiday!

There is an easy answer..... alternative chairlifts are smoking and non smoking. Don't like it? Wait 20 seconds for the next chair. The q's for the lifts would be longer, but then that would be the non-smokers fault so don't blame us!

As for hanging off the beige end of a marlboro on a t-bar or poma, well thats just fair game isn't it!?

Benjj

A snowHead

Sonya, dont think they have the huge issue with drinking/violence that we have here - id love to see someone tell a ned that they cant smoke - imminent bottling!

A snowHead

Hang on, are we all singing from the same hymn sheet here?

Assume you're in a pub.

If person A injests alcohol, the side effect is repeated trips to the loo a bit of calorie intake, along with a bit of vitamin/mineral intake. Excessive injestion may result possibly in social issues and a bit of wastage of police time, but that's another issue. Point is, healthwise, persons B thru Z aren't negatively affected by person A's injestion of alcohol.

However if person A also lights up, they'll get the smoke. As will persons B thru Z (remember, this is an enclosed space).

Alcohol, if taken in moderation, does indeed provide some health benefits, however cigarettes provide absolutely zero health benefits - from the very first wiff, cigarettes provide NEGATIVE health affects.

Which is why pubs are allowed to carry on plying alcohol.
And why various authorities around the globe have/are contemplating banning smoking where

Yes?

Good.

The point is NOT to make smoking tobacco illegal. Smoke all you want in the privacy of your own home, on the streets, or in your own car.

It's to ban it from ENCLOSED environments where the public congregates in groups.

Yes?
Alrighty then.

By all means exercise your right to purchase and consume tobacco, just don't expect to have the freedom to light up in an ENCLOSED space shared by others (thereby subjecting them to the increased risk of cigarette-related diseases).

BTW, did everyone stop working when the UK banned smoking in the work place?
No. Course not. And they haven't stopped going to bars in California either. Or Ireland.

I heard a report this am about Ireland sellling less beer and bar staff out of work and therefore smoking bans are to blame. Bollox. Can I say that loud enough? BOLLOX. Beer consumption in western nations (both northern and southern hemipsheres) has typically been static or declining since the 80s. And it's winter. Of COURSE barstaff are being laid off - it's the end of the tourist season! Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

Finished ranting now. Am off to smoke my "it's nearly skiing time!" cigar. In the privacy of my own home, of course.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Manda, bloody hell, have a drink snowHead

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Manda, I agree with you on the Publicans complaining about the drop in business. Rip-off Ireland culture is most notable in the pubs. The publicans have been increasing prices at a rate of knots .. especially with the advent of the Celtic Tiger.

I remember my first trip to Austria in 1989 and we were all shocked at how expensive beer was !! However since then the prices in Austria don't seem to have risen that much ... whereas in Ireland they have rocketed. So now I find that it is cheaper to drink in Austria than in Dublin city centre.

And its got to the point where people can't afford to go on the batter 7 nights a week anymore !! And at last, the publicans are now being forced to think about freezing the price of drink (and God forbid some are even talking about reducing the price Shock

).

The consumption of beer in bars has dropped in Ireland since the ban .. but what they often forget to mention is the drop was happening for years before the ban even started.

So if bar owners are suffering now, then its only because of their greed over the years in ripping people off. Nothing to do with smoking ban. Those who have invested back into the business with good catering facilities have gained a lot of business now that people can eat good quality pub grub in a non-smoky environment.

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They are going to do it then, ban smoking in enclosed spaces.

After all it is free

Yes! My first simplified link, how proud I am Razz

From Chris B's link

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Manda,

... and others labouring under the misapprehension that pubs are somehow public places. Pubs are private properties. Pubs can sell alcohol because they are private premises licensed to sell alcohol, not because alsohol in moderation isn't harmful. The reason why the owner of a pub can exclude members of the public is (precisely) because a pub is private property.

This is the essence of private property ownership: exclusivity. The owner may dictate what may or may not take place on those premises. When you sit in a pub you are on the owners private premises with his permission. If the owner so chooses you can be ejected from the owners private property.

Once you accept the principle of the State proscribing certains activities on private property it is only a matter of time before the principle is turned back on you. It is not the business of the State to dictate to free individuals which (lawful) activities they may not allow on their own property. The point is not smoking at all. The point is that the State believes it may now sanction what you may and may not do on your own property. If that makes you happy then fine, but when the State bites you in this manner let's have no complaints.

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4thefunofit, A basic right in the workplace is health and safety ... no worker should have to be exposed to life threatening pollutants in the workplace.

Smoking in your own private home is not being banned, or for that matter smoking in public outdoor areas.

(oh and as I don't own a pub the state is not sanctioning what I "may and may not do on my own property" Sad

)

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4thefunofit. Yes. But also no. Offices are "private spaces" too. But the law's been artifically tweaked to ensure that if "the public" access it, that space is subject to the law - even if in practical terms the space is technically privately owned. Incidentally "The State" already dictates a hell of a lot of things that we can't do with our privately owned property...... one more won't hurt us. Very Happy

And, er, pubs are indeed allowed to sell alcohol because in moderation it isn't harmful. For the same reason they're legally not allowed to flog cocaine, E, valium, nuclear waste...ok, I'm being facetious, but you get my meaning?
Although, because alcohol in excess can cause negative effects, publicans rights are also subject to a number of licencing restrictions.

The jury (parliament?) is still out on cigarettes, but not for any logical health reason. More to do with traditional social attitudes towards smoking, and commercial realities e.g. publicans screaming their heads off that they'll loose custom.

Slippery slope anti-nanny state intervention arguements are all good and fine, until you start paying exhorbant fees to private insurers/hospitals/security firms to protect yourself from the idiots who chose not to respect your right to live as you choose.

We could go on for hours on this tangent.

More interestingly, is anyone noticing much difference in European resorts that have banned smoking on chairlifts/on piste? Does anyone sneaking a cig on the chairlift get kicked off? What about smokers nabbed mid-piste? Do they get fined? Tagged? Released? Who does the nabbing? The lifties?

Manda, 'Nabbed by the lifties'. How painful is that then.

You know it makes sense.

Cymru am Byth, Probably less painful than being kicked off the chairlift!

Help!!

No smoking?

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